death worlds and world spirits?

[Guest Triszin]

just curious are there any references to other deathworlds besides fenris having a world spirit?

[Wolf Lord Loki]

Caliban seemed to have one, possibly a corrupted one.

Eldar exodites were said to habitate on planets with world spirits/ wraithbone memories. Which may or may not be the same thing

[Plaguecaster]

A few of the older Guard novels (especially concerning catachans) always hint at the planet being alive seeking to punish the inhabits with some nature force so they could all have world spirits though it could also be more due to the authors intent of showing the threat of a death world more than something to do world spirits

[BassWave]

As far as I know, the whole Fenris world spirit thing was proven to be just Fenrisian superstition in order to justify their use of psykers. I could be mistaken however.

[Bryan Blaire]

BassWave, that sounds about right. There doesn't seem to be anything actually there to justify the belief in the "world spirit" concept beyond the belief of the inhabitants.

 

Caliban didn't have one (nor did the inhabitants believe it did), it just housed the massive body of a demonic entity below its crust, which eventually was broken/broke its way free with some assistance.

[Guest Triszin]

In curse of the wulfen Magnus specifically tried to corrupt the world spirit. He failed, and fenris removed the corruption caused by chaos like an animal healing from a wound.

[Bryan Blaire]

Hmmm, going to have to go back and read that all again then because maybe I breezed over a part.

 

Caliban didn't have one, unless you count the Nurgle-aligned (still a little sore abot that - Tzeentch would have been a much more interesting plot) Ouroborous demon entity as a world spirit.

 

I guess that brings us to the question of what exactly a world spirit would be.

[Plasmablasts]

The final battle on Nocturne in Vulkan Lives suggests some form of "World Spirit" - as I haven't worked out spoiler tags, I won't say more.

[Bryan Blaire]

Spoiler: [ spoiler] at the beginning, [ /spoiler] at the end without spaces after the initial bracket.

 

[spoiler][/spoiler]

[Plasmablasts]

Spoiler: [ spoiler] at the beginning, [ /spoiler] at the end without spaces after the initial bracket.

 

 

[spoiler][/spoiler]

Thanks!

 

 

Just been pondering this more, and I wonder if this would be plausible:

 

> The emotions of psychically able races can create entities within the warp;

 

> The inhabitants of a Death World, like Fenris or Nocturne, are likely to have a stronger, more complex emotional relationship (love, hate, fear, awe, pride) with their planet than the inhabitants of a mor clement, civilised world would have with theirs;

 

> This emotional force then forms the seed or nidus of a new warp entity;

 

> Shamans or other magic-workers try to tap into the elemental powers of their planet and end up channelling warp power through the "World Spirit";

 

> Belief in the World Spirit grows, so the entity itself accretes more power;

 

> We then come to a potential explanation for the Space Wolves assertion that their Rune Priests don't draw power from the warp; they do, but channelled through the Fenrisian World Spirit, maybe analogously to, say, St Celestine channelling warp power via the Emperor.

[RandomMarine]

Isn't that actually celestine channeling the Emperor via the warp.

 

IMO gw is moving towards the warp as a conduit rather than source of power

[Guest Triszin]

so i did a bit more digging:

 

Eldar Exodites only settled on worlds that have world spirits. 

 

- However there seems to be discrepancies on how they describe this world spirit, some are made from infinity circuits and others are described as having one already

[Trevak Dal]

Hmmm, going to have to go back and read that all again then because maybe I breezed over a part.

 

Caliban didn't have one, unless you count the Nurgle-aligned (still a little sore abot that - Tzeentch would have been a much more interesting plot) Ouroborous demon entity as a world spirit.

 

I guess that brings us to the question of what exactly a world spirit would be.

Hmm. Maybe a localized warp entity similar in nature to the chaos gods, but is a collection of the life energy (and not just sapient emotional runoff) that has always existed on the planet, from back in the beginning to present?

 

Maybe the planets were created or terraformed by the Old Ones and in doing so augmented with a warp presence before The Great Unpleasantness that gave rise to the primary warp entities? And the Eldar are just moving back into the constructs their former masters built not knowing the difference be thinking it a natural phenomenon?

 

And on Deathworlds in general, as bad as they are shown, Earth (our Earth) can be just as bad. Imagine what the New World was like for Europeans back in the 1400s? Or to the native Americans that first came here following megafuana herds?

 

Imagine our world without being able to call the police, or fire department or go to a grocery store or restaurant. Imagine you don't have access to clean water.

 

Earth is plenty enough of a Deathworld. All that have died far, FAR outnumber those that are alive.

 

And as for 'mastering our planet' ask someone who is :cussrocked by an earthquake​ or tsunami or other natural disasters how 'masterful' they feel.

[Guest Triszin]

 

Hmmm, going to have to go back and read that all again then because maybe I breezed over a part.

 

Caliban didn't have one, unless you count the Nurgle-aligned (still a little sore abot that - Tzeentch would have been a much more interesting plot) Ouroborous demon entity as a world spirit.

 

I guess that brings us to the question of what exactly a world spirit would be.

Hmm. Maybe a localized warp entity similar in nature to the chaos gods, but is a collection of the life energy (and not just sapient emotional runoff) that has always existed on the planet, from back in the beginning to present?

 

Maybe the planets were created or terraformed by the Old Ones and in doing so augmented with a warp presence before The Great Unpleasantness that gave rise to the primary warp entities? And the Eldar are just moving back into the constructs their former masters built not knowing the difference be thinking it a natural phenomenon?

 

the other thing to consider is, if world spirits could be the result of ancient tyranids devolving/ going on alternate evolution paths. so long removed they are no longer remotely the same

[Trevak Dal]

Indeed, if the Tyranids are a Universal element of cleansing, then they could have scoured the Milky Way long ago...Though I'd think the galaxy would have to be a lot older, because the Necrotyr and Old Ones existed what, 150-65 million years ago and had tier 1 societies (though one was through the Warp and the other was through Technology). They were the dominant species, with Old Ones uplifting or outright designing several races (Eldar and Orks definitely with several other alleged) they are said to have tinkered with us too...But I lean towards the thought that Necrotyr were ancient humans.

 

I digress, there would still be...Billions of years for life to have potentially come up and be culled, but our planet is 4 billion years old, the galaxy is 15 billion and change...A lot of the planets that exist in 40k would be around 4-7 billion years old, I don't know that it's possible for the Tyranids to have culled the Milky Way before, because they harvest everything, organic and inorganic elements they can use leaving only a husk behind. And while new planets can always be made, could they be made fast enough for (advanced) life to develop?

[Guest Triszin]

other thing in curse of the wulfen:

 

 

Bjorn in his sleep*? is now also a warp entity? as he was standing on top of the fang, on fenris, in the warp (it's warp version/shadow/echo) watching the thousand sons plot slowly unfold, and also protecting the warp side of the fang/fenris from the deamons?

 

 

It was a very odd moment in the book. the only explanation I can think of, is since bjorn is the oldest marine, thats been active, and now entombed in a dreadnaught, and is known galaxy wide, maybe he is becoming greater deamon of fenris in some way?

[Legionnaire of the VIIth]

Maybe the planets were created or terraformed by the Old Ones and in doing so augmented with a warp presence before The Great Unpleasantness that gave rise to the primary warp entities? And the Eldar are just moving back into the constructs their former masters built not knowing the difference be thinking it a natural phenomenon?

 

The Eldar Empire was capable of creating worlds on their own and the planets the Eldar created but never got around to populating were called Maiden Worlds by them. It is said in the Craftworld Codex that they could create worlds and destroy stars at their whim so maybe some of the world spirits (that aren't an infinity circuit) are just from the Eldar Empire tinkering around but lost interest in them or those cults were destroyed in the insanity that took over their greater society. Maybe they even came to evolve from their original purpose or became perverted by the growing power of Slannesh and eventual birth. Or maybe some are from the Old Ones and others are from the Eldar as well.

 

Humans found themselves inheriting many vacant worlds, whose original purpose or disasters that befell them before their coming, was unknown to them.

[Brother Sefiel]

Greetings

Indeed, if the Tyranids are a Universal element of cleansing, then they could have scoured the Milky Way long ago...Though I'd think the galaxy would have to be a lot older, because the Necrotyr and Old Ones existed what, 150-65 million years ago and had tier 1 societies (though one was through the Warp and the other was through Technology). They were the dominant species, with Old Ones uplifting or outright designing several races (Eldar and Orks definitely with several other alleged) they are said to have tinkered with us too...But I lean towards the thought that Necrotyr were ancient humans.

I digress, there would still be...Billions of years for life to have potentially come up and be culled, but our planet is 4 billion years old, the galaxy is 15 billion and change...A lot of the planets that exist in 40k would be around 4-7 billion years old, I don't know that it's possible for the Tyranids to have culled the Milky Way before, because they harvest everything, organic and inorganic elements they can use leaving only a husk behind. And while new planets can always be made, could they be made fast enough for (advanced) life to develop?

Some stars will last for trillions of years (at least). There's plenty of time for other species to rise.