Panzer Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 I agree with Arkangilos. BA are still a fairly codex compliant chapter with everything that belongs to it just that the flaw is pushing us more into the direction of assault based fighting. I also agree that the Red Thirst part of the curse is very underwhelmingly portrait at the moment and changing it could do a lot to improve how it feels to play an actual BA army. On that note, i don't think being forced to move by the dice would be such a good idea. Rather that if the dice say you suffer from Red Thirst you get buffs/debuffs that influence your decision how to use that unit. Like roll for LD every turn the enemy is in charge range (would be much better with a fix charge range we hopefully get with 8th edition), with -2 if the enemy is within half of your charge range. If you fail the LD check you get -1BS and +1S/WS/Attacks/whatever. If you fail the LD check and the enemy is within half of your charge range get -2/+2. It would neatly display how they can't concentrate on their actual task anymore because they really want to jump the enemy but it would let actual decision still left open to the player at the end of the day. I think that alone would already do a lot for BA feeling different and special compared to other chapter while still having them codex compliant at the core unlike SW who do just their thing and are completely different anyway (that being said I really like the current SW codex and which we would get a similarly creative one :P ). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/332682-skills-difference-for-ba-in-shadow-wars-armageddon/page/3/#findComment-4710234 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkangilos Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 I can get behind that :p Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/332682-skills-difference-for-ba-in-shadow-wars-armageddon/page/3/#findComment-4710507 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indefragable Posted April 13, 2017 Author Share Posted April 13, 2017 By guidelines I meant more of, "scout > assault > dev > tactical > veteran" type thing, but good point on that anyways. The typical strike force actually is more like the Ultra's (Demi Company, with our companies set up the same), and our doctrine is *supposed* to be well rounded. I say supposed to be because it's acknowledged that it isn't because the flaw makes it difficult to be. But that's where my statement on how the flaw isn't represented well comes in, and only reinforces my main point. Basically, in Shadow Wars, the rules are reflected decently enough to show the difference (Ferocious, for example, has Berserk Charge, and other rules that encourage moving forward), and still decently follows the fluff. See, to a certain degree (this is friendly, not an argument) that logic would mean that we should be Ultramarines + Red Thirst and Black Rage, so our Scouts in Shadow Wars should have everything UM get plus Ferocity. I'm not recommending that by any means, especially since I am such a stickler for balance and one of my biggest gripes with 7th Edition 40k is that too many units/Factions get all the pluses with none of the minuses as it is. As a matter of bias, I also like BA having their own Codex and being distinct from Codex: SM, SW, DA, and other flavors of power armor. Emphasizing just how "normal" we are with a few differences takes us a few steps closer to being Black Templars, where we are rolled into the Codex and just have a unique unit or two and things like Overcharged Engines become our Chapter Tactics. Some people may prefer that (to each his own), but I am decidedly against that. And as for the BA vs SW thing, SW are definitely supposed to their whole own thing with their whole own shtick. What gets me is when their "shtick" seems to be everything our shtick is supposed to be + more. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/332682-skills-difference-for-ba-in-shadow-wars-armageddon/page/3/#findComment-4710669 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkangilos Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 I disagree with that because Ultramarines have access to the shooting tree because they are calmer and more able to control their emotions. They aren't noted to give up ideal firing positions to charge the enemy. That's why they have shooting and we do not. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/332682-skills-difference-for-ba-in-shadow-wars-armageddon/page/3/#findComment-4710725 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 BA are UM+Curse? Well...yeah we basically are with some additional differences here and there. That's what it means to be a codex compliant chapter at the end of the day. Sure we have our own little secrets, flavours and preferences but so has any other chapter as well. To be as different as SW or DA we would needto receive some retconning and a really well designed new codex to display that. We are less special than we'd like to admit (but still slightly more than some others). That's the sad truth. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/332682-skills-difference-for-ba-in-shadow-wars-armageddon/page/3/#findComment-4710761 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blindhamster Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 Exactly, a key part of the BA is that they are codex compliant as much as they are able to be despite the flaw. I'd be happy to be codex space marines, with a chapter tactic, death company and a jump pack option for honour guard (sanguinary guard) plus dante/mephiston/corbulo tbh. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/332682-skills-difference-for-ba-in-shadow-wars-armageddon/page/3/#findComment-4710806 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkangilos Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 Eh, I still don't necessarily want us rolled, but I agree with the rest. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/332682-skills-difference-for-ba-in-shadow-wars-armageddon/page/3/#findComment-4710857 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indefragable Posted April 13, 2017 Author Share Posted April 13, 2017 IMO, there would be far less sons of Baal even considering being part of Codex: SM if the codex power levels were more balanced. They have the shiny toys at the moment. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/332682-skills-difference-for-ba-in-shadow-wars-armageddon/page/3/#findComment-4710869 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain_Krash Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 I wouldn't want us rolled either...I just want Landspeeder storms...like really badly. Krash Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/332682-skills-difference-for-ba-in-shadow-wars-armageddon/page/3/#findComment-4710905 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolemai Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 How about we knock off all this talk about getting rolled and greener grass, and try to get back on topic? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/332682-skills-difference-for-ba-in-shadow-wars-armageddon/page/3/#findComment-4710958 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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