Xisor Posted April 8, 2017 Share Posted April 8, 2017 CL Werner's latest - his second 40k novel, featuring Sisters of Battle versus Genestealer Cultists. Otherwise, I know terribly little about it. It's not been loudly sung or heralded by BL, and doesn't coincide with a model release so isn't directly tied to GW schedules either. Acquired it earlier today, so once I'm done with Red Tithe I think I'll be racing right into this one! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/332796-cult-of-the-warmason/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander Dawnstar Posted April 9, 2017 Share Posted April 9, 2017 So ... I think I understand why C.L Werner took this one on now: His Iron Warriors from The Siege of Castellax (I haven't read it, but a little research suggests as much) are a totally left-field third party in the story and get at least as much focus as the other two factions and certainly more shine. It feels like they come to dominate a story that they're not even advertised as being in. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/332796-cult-of-the-warmason/#findComment-4707154 Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeritorA Posted April 11, 2017 Share Posted April 11, 2017 So ... I think I understand why C.L Werner took this one on now: His Iron Warriors from The Siege of Castellax (I haven't read it, but a little research suggests as much) are a totally left-field third party in the story and get at least as much focus as the other two factions and certainly more shine. It feels like they come to dominate a story that they're not even advertised as being in. Exactly. So far - 50 pages in, it's not the best Werner story. Too bolter pornish and characters seems like cartoonish villains and burocrats Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/332796-cult-of-the-warmason/#findComment-4708955 Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeritorA Posted April 14, 2017 Share Posted April 14, 2017 140 pages in and now the story has become interesting to follow. That's not Fehervari brilliant 'Genestealers Cult' for sure, but still not bad so far. If you will survive boring bolter porn and cartoonish burocrats of the first 70 or so pages - you will probably gonna like this novel Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/332796-cult-of-the-warmason/#findComment-4711348 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Dougal Posted April 15, 2017 Share Posted April 15, 2017 So, given the surprise Space Marines, who is the story really about? Is it a genestealer novel, a sororitas novel, or an Iron Warriors novel? I'd like to know before I spend money on it. Who's the... I almost said victors, but this is 40k, so there are no victors, just survivors. Y'know reading the title now 'Cult of the Warmason' should've been a real giveaway as to that plot twist. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/332796-cult-of-the-warmason/#findComment-4711937 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander Dawnstar Posted April 15, 2017 Share Posted April 15, 2017 Y'know reading the title now 'Cult of the Warmason' should've been a real giveaway as to that plot twist. The titular "Warmason" is Vadok Singh, a man responsible for no small part of the work on the Imperial Palace on Terra itself. I would say the story certainly starts out with the Sororitas as its main focus, at least when it isn't giving attention to some other aspect of the Imperium, with the Genestealer Cult largely being illustrated either as the antagonist or through through the occasional scene with the Magus to show his connection to the 'Inheritors' and how he leads and guides the cult itself. Once the third party enters things the story kinda gets split three ways, with the Sisters and the new arrivals vying for the starring role while the cult plays second fiddle and primary antagonist. I think the Sisters win out on actual page count but suffer from a lack of notable characters and a position that leaves them generally reacting to threats rather than actively driving the story forward. The unannounced party does far better in that regard and certainly feels like it becomes the main focus in the last few chapters. As for the victors... The Iron Warriors are absolutely the victors. They achieve all their goals and leave on their own terms with fairly minimal losses, while only one Battle Sister survives to see the epilogue and the cult is decapitated. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/332796-cult-of-the-warmason/#findComment-4711976 Share on other sites More sharing options...
dansupvi Posted April 16, 2017 Share Posted April 16, 2017 Y'know reading the title now 'Cult of the Warmason' should've been a real giveaway as to that plot twist. The titular "Warmason" is Vadok Singh, a man responsible for no small part of the work on the Imperial Palace on Terra itself. I would say the story certainly starts out with the Sororitas as its main focus, at least when it isn't giving attention to some other aspect of the Imperium, with the Genestealer Cult largely being illustrated either as the antagonist or through through the occasional scene with the Magus to show his connection to the 'Inheritors' and how he leads and guides the cult itself. Once the third party enters things the story kinda gets split three ways, with the Sisters and the new arrivals vying for the starring role while the cult plays second fiddle and primary antagonist. I think the Sisters win out on actual page count but suffer from a lack of notable characters and a position that leaves them generally reacting to threats rather than actively driving the story forward. The unannounced party does far better in that regard and certainly feels like it becomes the main focus in the last few chapters. As for the victors... The Iron Warriors are absolutely the victors. They achieve all their goals and leave on their own terms with fairly minimal losses, while only one Battle Sister survives to see the epilogue and the cult is decapitated. and the last sister is corrupted according to the ending Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/332796-cult-of-the-warmason/#findComment-4712263 Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeritorA Posted April 18, 2017 Share Posted April 18, 2017 Vigilo confidoBlack Library nowadays produce a lot of stuff - audio, books, recycled anthologies etc. Sometimes it's a hit and miss, sometimes it's a road trip to readers paradise and sometimes it is a road to hell paved with the good intentions. Today I want to review a very intelligent, ambiguous and at the same time cumbersome novel. Cult of the Warmason written by the talented Herr C.L. Werner provide us a glimpse of the other side of hell with all the circles to it. One of the reason we love and adorn W40K setting. But - Cult of the Warmason is a very (and I mean it) - very strange book. Let's get to the dissection.Plot, environmentsAs the synopsis tells us: In a galaxy teeming with alien aggressors, nothing unites the Imperium more than the worship of the immortal God-Emperor. Without the shining light of his divinity, travel through the stars would not be possible, and humanity would be swallowed by darkness. The shrineworld of Vadok attracts billions of pilgrims who visit to reaffirm their faith, and catch a glimpse of the sacred relic held in its great cathedral. But the reach of man’s enemies is long, and when civil unrest breaks out, and rumours of four-armed monsters abound, the Adepta Sororitas tasked with defending the world must face the fight of their lives. For they are few, but their enemies are numberlessAnd actually that's one of the rare BL synopsis that covers the story the right way. The story created by Herr C.L. Werner covers one of the themes that made a central line of GW and BL storytelling not that long ago - Genestealers Cults and their place in the W40K universe. In case of this novel, we have the shrine world of Lubentina, one of the holiest planets of the Imperium, dedicated to a hero from the Age of Heresy - covered with civil unrest and rumours of sinister, four-armed monsters spur the Sisters of Battle into action against numberless foes. That's right - another example of the Genestealers cult on the lose. To be more precise it is better to dissect the plot into several separate stories. 1) First of all we had a full enclosed Genestealers Cult uprising flowing via every cornerstone of the Lubentina society.2) Next we have a world ruling council that struggle with itself and it's own decisions. 3) Further on we have a war driven story of an cataclysmic conflict between the Sisters of Battle, militia/PDF and the Genestealers Cult.4) And of course we have the thoughts and dreams of the other side - in our case GC Magos.And it would have been probably even to tell the story on itself. But author decided to add additional parameter to the formula. And thus the Chaos Space Marines take the main stage. That was one of the most unexpected authors decisions and at the same time the one that 'almost' ruin the story. But, miracuously it made it better at the same time. Cause if you have 50 consistent pages of shooty-shooty between SoB and GC hybrids it became boring very quickly. But if you add additional unexpected parameter it goes the other way around. Also Herr C.L. Werner made a splendid work with the environments for which he is famous for since the old time of Witch Hunter and Black Plague trilogies. Every battle-scene (even through being a bolter-porn), every tunnel/warren/spire or transport route are depicted with vivid imagination and love. CharactersAnd here we have a splendid circus of cartoonish villains and unknown heroes. First several dozen pages make our friendship with heroes and villains, poor people and dreamers.We had a splendid hero (written from the grown up Newt from the Aliens) Sister of Battle, head of Covent - Trishala. She is an inspiring, heroic figure which will went on a road from a 'knight in the shining armor' to the hard-boiled and unforgiving person. Next we have prelate Yadav - whose road will be a little bit different while he will travel a road of redemption (which on itself is truly a rare thing for a high senior consul member of the Eclessiarhy in W40K setting).Colonel Hasif and Sister Kashiba - the ones who are naive and faithful. The ones who always think about others but eventually being crashed in spirit under the avalanche of sacrificial lambs.Poor Cardinal Murdin and minister Kargil - truly cartoonish villains in only the name which failed to delivery the promised of the 'destruction from inside'. That kind of stuff C.L. Werner has written amazingly in his Black Plague trilogy with his characterizations of Boris Goldgather and Adolph Kreyssig. Here he failed a bit - but not by a big margin.Also we have a POV from the other side - magos Bakasur, the one who lead the Cult in the name of the 'Great Father'. Whose steps are like that of a kid - who tries to understand the new universe around him at the same time being walled in by the parents. (Tis a shame we will not see how he was made into the Cult - what was his family and road before the 'Great Father') And of course - [spoilers] good old fella - Rhodaan . Which made the novel worse from that point for me.I usually adorn Werner. But when at one point in the past he has a book called The Siege of Castellax - which was a horrible read of an abomination. Just 30 pages in - he had a Chaos Space Marine says 'Ow' and repetitive mantra while fighting (which actually a perturbation to the fighting process). His characterization of the Iron Warrior marines was similarly blank for the most part. The idea of 64 marines holding off a millions of orks (who are nearly as hardy as marines in the damage they can take) is ludicrous. The IW commander barely took part in the planning of the defense, instead leaving it up to his inept and bickering captains which cost them the war (they apparently didn't know the ork mentality despite having been around for a few thousand years). Add to that the fact that we had absolutely childish ideas in their heads (I live for a Long War, Iron Within...) and the point that IW are still the most 'unexplained' Legion (and how it ticks) in the setting does not help at all. But at least the author had a lot of black humor to make the novel better. C.L. Werneralways had high standards of black humor and laugh in his novels. Mainly it was done as a great fan-service (especially to the direct fans of W40K). Here - just take a sample: These would be real Space Marines, not the Chaos heretics that had added to Lubentina's agonies. When they arrived, he could expect the Flesh Tearers to be noble and disciplined champions of the Imperium...ScoreIt is by all rights - an ambitious book. It tries to achieve a lot adding more and more complexity to the narrative. And because of that - it crumbles under its own weight. One of the unanswered questions which could have been better covered - is where the first Inheritors came from, how they end up on Lubentina? In case of the previous BL forage into the GC territory we had an explanation in the novel Genestealer Cults and short Cast a Hungry Shadow that explains how, then and why GS has arrived on that particular world. Here we all could only guess.Also the Cult itself feels a little but too fairy. It's like they are without numbers and simply feels like a model range instead of a real danger to the Imperium forces. While the most obvious source of comparison, Peter Fehervari's Genestealer Cults novel, made their cult feel truly organic this one comes across as a bit by the numbers. Next - dissection of a plot into several additional storylines only make it worse, cause then the IW arrive it really complicates things. You don't know whom to root for. Is it SoB? Honourable prelates/frateris? Villanois burocrats? Misconducted IW? Naive Cult Magos? And that the additional side is also a known constance for us (the same IW that survived The Siege of Castellax ) only makes things worse again (in my case). I actually disappointed with the nowdays choice of BL authors to add their previous/old characters to the new novels. I hate that with the McNeil choices to add his cast into every book and now I do disappointed C.L. Werner decided to do the same. Add to that the point - I hate The Siege of Castellax. That's why the addition of Rhodaan and co almost ruined the novel for me right where. If an author tried to make it as a separate story and at the same time a sequel of sorts for the The Siege of Castellax - it truly went bad for the Cult of the WarmasonAlso, the novel suffers from the repetitive of characters internal struggles and emotions being described all over again. Especially in case of Sister Trishala and Magos Bakasur. How they do not know what to do, how they tried to comprehend the results of their previous choices. Not to mention the facade of the main person of the novel - Warmason himself. Of which we knew almost nothing (except for the info from the 'The Lightning Tower') about and will leave only with the knowledge that he built something, stole that (spoiler) and kissed a shroud. And that he was a great engineer. Vadok Singh absolutely forgotten and his 'character' and his 'Cult' is being lost amongst the other storylines. Due to the absolutely wild ride with the novel, it's characters, and a lot of bolter pornish action I wouldn't have suggested this novel to anyone. Loose 20 pages of repetitive bolter-porn, self-doubt and 'repetitive' emotional struggle of several characters and the novel would have been much better. But due to the funny moments, amazing environments, moments 'how he ticks' and a lot of black humor of high calibre I would give Cult of the Warmason 3,5 out of 5 stars. C.L. Werner you are an awesome writer. You could do better! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/332796-cult-of-the-warmason/#findComment-4713530 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xisor Posted April 18, 2017 Author Share Posted April 18, 2017 Only 10% in. Enjoying it a huge amount. The meeting with the governor was excellent, worthy of the best bits of The Beast Arises and an excellent reminder that Clint does politics and satire very incisively. I should sleep, but I'm quite pleased that any hint of tiredness is thoroughly escaping me. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/332796-cult-of-the-warmason/#findComment-4714067 Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeritorA Posted April 20, 2017 Share Posted April 20, 2017 Only 10% in. Enjoying it a huge amount. The meeting with the governor was excellent, worthy of the best bits of The Beast Arises and an excellent reminder that Clint does politics and satire very incisively. I should sleep, but I'm quite pleased that any hint of tiredness is thoroughly escaping me. So it's not a bolter-pornish, overburdened with characters and not cartoonish villanish for you? Ok - can you provide your opinion furher on? I'm curious if you will agree with the review Xisor Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/332796-cult-of-the-warmason/#findComment-4715149 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xisor Posted April 20, 2017 Author Share Posted April 20, 2017 Another 10% (so 1/5 through) - and no, not at all. There's a lot of small scale fighting, but it's all been as a backdrop to character development. The characters aren't 'gritty realists', much closer to the odd absurdities that proliferate early 40k. But I like them. Well, I dislike most of them, but I sympathise with their situation and enjoy their depiction. A lot. I hope Clint doesn't mind me saying so, but there's a deeply British bit of satire (or what British satire aspires towards) and cultural commentary going on here; I'm glad to see it coming from across the pond. Moreover, the take on faith and conviction and certainty is downright intriguing. It's a very engaging, very pleasing read. Very easy going and unpretentious too. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/332796-cult-of-the-warmason/#findComment-4715171 Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeritorA Posted April 20, 2017 Share Posted April 20, 2017 Another 10% (so 1/5 through) - and no, not at all. There's a lot of small scale fighting, but it's all been as a backdrop to character development. The characters aren't 'gritty realists', much closer to the odd absurdities that proliferate early 40k. But I like them. Well, I dislike most of them, but I sympathise with their situation and enjoy their depiction. A lot. I hope Clint doesn't mind me saying so, but there's a deeply British bit of satire (or what British satire aspires towards) and cultural commentary going on here; I'm glad to see it coming from across the pond. Moreover, the take on faith and conviction and certainty is downright intriguing. It's a very engaging, very pleasing read. Very easy going and unpretentious too. We will see how it will go for you further on. Especially then some new 'old friends' will appear. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/332796-cult-of-the-warmason/#findComment-4715187 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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