Shadow War experiences so far

[NatBrannigan]

So, with the rumour thread for Shadow War closed and the game now out (for a lucky few at any rate!), I'd love to hear people experiences of the game so far.

 

Things like: The making your Warband / Gang / Mob / Killteam or whatever you want to call it. Your first games and what you learnt. What happened after the game. Any funny anecdotes of clumsy Orks falling to their death after getting altogether carried away and trying to leap from one building to the next...

 

 

[Sugarlessllama]

I LOVE the game. Seriously. It was the most fun I have had playing 40K in a while. The cover rules made complete sense to me, and just felt... right. Using "Rend" on weapons instead of just ignoring armor is really pretty cool; and I can see Heavy Bolters becoming relevant again (score!).

 

I have some Skitarii Rangers models from an abandoned project that are fully painted already, so I was able to just print off the Skitarri kill team rules and jump right in. I had a blast almost from the get go. The game is fast, furious, and feels very cinematic. I played in a scenario where I was able to form a gun line against an Ork kill team, and it was fun. Even though I had the advantage, I just couldn't drop the orks fast enough. It really did feel like a green tide was coming to murder me in a grim dark hive city nightmare.

It was awesome.

 

So if you have the chance to pop into a local GW, or if a friend has a copy of the rules I would really suggest giving it a go. But also make sure there is a ton of terrain on the table. I mean like two to three pieces per 2x2 section at least. Otherwise things can get pretty one sided pretty quick.

[Obscura]

Played my first game of SW:A tonight. 

 

Per usual, I kept on mixing up Mordheim, 1st and 2nd Edition Necromunda and Gorkamorka up with this new rule set, my opponent ( who was playing Eldar ) did the same thing as well since he and I were used to those skirmish games.

 

The scenario was played wasn't anything special, your atypical "I was here first, no I was here first, now we kill each other until someone routes."

 

That lasted for two hours as we tried to maneuver and take pot shots at each other, my Nurgle Gunner went down in the second turn and he in turn had a few Guardians with flesh wounds as my Bolters kept on knocking Eldar down, eventually taking one due to bleed out, two of which were at -2 WS/BS when it was all said and done over the course of three game turns. He tried a flanking maneuver with the injured ones, my Chaos Marines were on Overwatch, which knocked them down, this in turn allowed my duel knife wielding Cultists to run in and shank one of them as I hid them behind a building as a counter assault force also known as a speed bump as I had this idea that I wanted my Chaos Marines to get all the bloody glory.

 

The game store was about to close, so he decided to voluntarily rout after my Cultists took one of his guys out of action due to curb stomping in SPAAAACE. I'd like to think my Cultists stole that Eldars shoes, eventually tying them together and throwing them like a set of bolos over some nearby power lines to show the Eldar where they got punked.

 

It was considered a win for me, my Gunner came back with Hatred for Kalhoun ( Eldar Specialist manning the Weapons Platform ), my Leader got a new skill and I was able to snag four Promethium barrels.

 

All in all, a good game and I'm really looking forward to next Tuesday so I can start in on the League game night for SW:A.

[NatBrannigan]

I've heard lots of positives so far as well, and really enjoyed my one game to date.

 

Against Tau with my Orks and it really felt right. The Tau taking up sniper positions, trying to support each other, fire and move. You know the kind of thing, tactics I think they're called?

 

I went for a more traditional Ork approach and charged in! The pinning rules really make it challenging to get into combat with as many models as you would like at the same time, which is great because when you do get into combat it's brutal. In the end I had my Spanner and Yoofs pinning Tau so my Boyz could advance without getting pinned. One sneaky Ork took the long route round the table, staying in cover until he was above a Tau sniper and with a heroic leap and a yell fell straight off the building and landed in a skip... Really cinematic and a really fun moment, just a shame we weren't in a campaign so he could have picked up an appropriate injury! I "lost" but found it hard to care!

 

The only thing I'm not sure about is the lack of variety with injuries in the campaign. I really enjoyed the crazy injuries you could pick up in Gorkamorka and updating your models as you went. I suppose it's easier to do with Orks because a brain transplant or replacing someone's legs with a mono-wheel work for them, where for Space Marine Scouts? I can't remember the Necromunda injury system but I assume that was more varied than Shadow War and would fit better?

[Petitioner's City]

There were d66 results, from death to limbs to head injuries to capture to even improvement. It was very similar to gorkamorka, since it was the base for the later game.

[NatBrannigan]

I think something like that would really add to the campaign, but a friend of mine has dug up his old Necromunda book and I've found my old Gorkamorka ones so we can always use their campaign rules instead. Maybe even add some light vehicles in at some point.

[Cactus]

Bear in mimd that in Shadow War you can only increase each stat once, and there are no options to buy bionic limb replacements. The more detailed injuries from Necromunda could have a serious impact.

 

Personally I like the new streamlined version but I had a statisically improbable run of deaths in my Delaque gang back in the day so I might be oversensitive.

[NatBrannigan]

I've only ever had the ludicrous number of deaths happen in blood bowl, although I did end up with three Orks on Monowheels in Gorkamorka. I'll see how a Campaign goes before moaning about it, at least my favourite "captured" result is still there!

[Thedroppodcast]

Hey everyone, new to the forum and I have to say I am absolutely loving Shadow War Armageddon, we have posted a few battle reports and even did a super early rules playtrhough with the quick start stuff they sent stores a week in advance. Having a couple of games under our belts, it is a fantastic game, I really don't know why people are complaining who are used to Necromunda. There are people saying that Necro is "superior" but that is just inflated opinions to me, the game plays really well, and in a good group, with great terrain, it is so much fun. 

 

I do not recommend engaging Tyranids in CQB without proper precaution hahaha.

[NatBrannigan]

I think there's an element of nostalgia involved when people say Necromunda is "superior", but the Campaign between game elements like injuries and advancement were a lot more in depth which was nice, but that's just my opinion though and I'm certainly happy with the Shadow War campaign at the moment. As for the in-game rules they're pretty much the same so lots of happy people playing at the moment.

 

It's also finally allowed me to convince 4 friends of mine, who have been interested for years but who just can't afford to get into 40k or AoS, to buy some models and start playing! £20 gets you the squad box you need to start, free rules online and a rulebook they can share (for now). That's exactly what GW needed so a massive win for them there. Just a shame they all live in London and I moved 'oop North...

[Reyner]

Just a shame they all live in London and I moved 'oop North...

The poor souls. 

[N1SB]

Important Findings:

 

 

1. Necromunda Experience Isn't Enough

 

The rules between Shadow War and Necromunda are the same, but the meta is not.  Pinning remains a thing, cover is still king, but you didn't get cheap Sniper Rifles or Space Marine Scouts back then.  And if you're like me, you hadn't played Necromunda for almost 2 decades.  Be ready to re-learn and un-learn a lot of stuff.

 

 

2. Don't Rely On Bolters and Power Armour

 

I played what I currently believe is one of the most durable teams: Chaos Space Marines with Mark of Nurgle (T5, 3+ saves).  They're pretty good against basic Autoguns and Lasguns, obviously, but this is a meta where Eldar exist.  Their basic guns have Sustained Fire (i.e. rapid fire) when even Bolters don't do that, which have a reduction on your saving throw, and you can still be Pinned.

 

 

3. I Hate Eldar

 

They're stupidly OP in every aspect.  Especially Harlequins.  I cut my manifesto here, because otherwise I'll never stop.

 

 

4. Cover Is King, But Flamers Are King Killers (Edit - or Skitarii with Omnispex and Galvanic Rifles)

 

We rarely take Flamers in 40k; our go-to Special Weapons choice is usually a Meltagun.  Flamers actually make a lot more sense in Shadow War because cover is king.  I thought for awhile Sniper Rifles were the OP choice in this meta, but now I'm thinking Flamers are even more relevant than Necromunda because a few OP factions (i.e. Eldar) have cover shenanigans that you can burn away.  One reason is they're the hard-counter to Harlequins, who get special gear that gives them stacking modifiers to your To Hit roll (he kept reminding me I had a -4 To Hit his prancing emo clowns).

 

Edit - was doing some after-match list-building.  Looked at all the different factions for options against, well, Eldar.  Found Skitarii have not just 30" rifles, comparable to Sniper Scouts, but also a Omnispex miscellaneous item that allows others to ignore cover.  After my last few games, especially against Eldar, this is a very attractive faction and I might have to make one of these.

 

 

5. Losing Doesn't Hurt That Much

 

The design team really softened the pain of losing.  You get a reward even for losing, while you still get 100 points to Recruit or Rearm, AND the Injury Table is very forgiving in that half the time a wounded soldier comes back with a buff (Frenzy and Hatred, or an Advancement) compared to a 1/12 chance of actually dying.  I pwn'd my opponent tonight and he ended up with a bunch of guys Hating me and 1 Frenzied Guardsman (that, should he wish, he could take away Frenzy with a Leadership check in coming battles).  It's really not a big deal.

 

 

6. Leverage Cloud-Based Technology If Convenient

 

Lists are constantly evolving, and we want our circle of players in our campaign to keep track of what's been going on, so we put everything on OneDrive (i.e. Microsoft's version of Google Drive/Apps).  We love it because it opens the Excel spreadsheet template right then and there in the browser, so we can edit it.  We do this because, not only do we trust each other, but we play in a friend's office and he can project the roster on the screen, so we do the post-game there and then.  It's more fun that way, people aren't just staring at their own little printed roster sheet, so it becomes a communal experience.  Very Forge-A-Narrative (the whole game is Forge-A-Narrative, tbh).

 

 

+++++

 

 

Gonna leave it there.  It's incredibly fun, because I think it really lends itself so much to Forging-A-Narrative.  The missions, the pre-game Warp Table-like chart to represent the Hive's conditions, they way your fighters very rarely die and frequently level-up...whoever worked on this knew what they were going for.  I like how you guys mentioned above this is very cinematic; yeah, or more specifically, like an Episodic TV/Telltale series.

 

Case in point, just put together a new Blood Axe Ork team sneaking into a Hive.  Their debut had their deployment literally like this:

 

http://oi64.tinypic.com/2h52zjk.jpg

 

It was the Raid mission (there's an underground bunker, defenders are guarding it, attackers are invading with a small set of their team, deploying from a random table edge).  My opponent gambled that I would deploy from the other 3 table edges, so he put everything on 1 side.  Due to a fluky roll on a Scatter Die, I came from the 1 edge he didn't want me to.  Hilarious sneaky git backstabbing ensued, the perfect intro episode for these Blood Axes.

 

(1 really fun detail - see that Ork with the Big Shoota?  He chose not to fire his gun, went for a silent knife attack, as not to raise alarms.  There's a game mechanic where a weapon will make sound and you make a roll based on its Strength, as the more powerful it is the louder it generally gets.  He backstabbed a Guardman good...but it was the Veteran Sergeant Guardsman, in the middle, who actually alerted reinforcements by the sound of HIS Chainsword as he fought off the 2 Orks attacking him.  The stories write themselves.)

 

I effectively tabled him (everyone was Out of Action except 2, who were both Down), but only the female plasma gunner Guardsman above "died".  However, the Sergeant sacrificed a Promethium Cache and his Recruit points to "revive" her (we said he spent the fuel for an evac shuttle to take her to a hospital).  Now, 2 of his troopers Hates the Orks, specifically Big Shoota Ork you see there, and another Guardsman now has Frenzy (unless Sarge has a nice talk with him in an upcoming battle with a Ld roll).  I could check all this because I'm looking at our Cloud-Enabled Roster Excel.

Edited April 14, 2017 by Not 1 Step Backwards

[Emperor's Furor]

Played my third game today, vs shooty chaos he had an autocannon and heavy bolter that reduced my range by 6 and they sat outside of  ranged and pew pewed me whilst I tried to get the promethean cache, I lost the game on a break test and lost two troopers permanently, I ended up spending all my caches to get the two troopers back and a specialist with a TA so I have some range which I sorely lacked, aside from the galvanic.

Edited April 14, 2017 by WoT

[Prot]

I think you can only cash in one promethium for 100 pts.

 

I guess I posted this in the wrong thread but my last league game I did lose but our total rewards were identical however I had walked away miraculously with one guy getting 'what doesn't kill you' while my opponent who won actually had a death and someone out for Frenzy.

[Emperor's Furor]

Yeah the store manager house ruled it so in our campaign you can use as many as you like.

[Prot]

So I played a few more games at the GW campaign. I decided to try Astartes/scouts so I see my opponent is playing Skitarri, but he's played probably 10 more games than me. He puts down his 9 guys and I'm that thinking I'm dead.

 

Well I end up getting first turn, but he has 9 guys and is probably playing 1600-1800 to my paltry 1000. But I ended up putting more of his guys down and out. Funny thing is that I bottle out in t3. So I got 2 promethium, and he ended up winning but he had a lot of stuff out of action or missing the next game.

[Emperor's Furor]

I'm up to 5 games done now, I think I've played the most in the store but lost 3 of them. the third loss was a massive 5 way game, I came second though and got the second most promethean so wasn't to bad. The second win I had was funny, I was playing ambush vs Chaos, he set up poorly, I took down two of his men in the first turn and he bottled before he got to even return fire, but since I was more experienced he ended up with more caches anyway >.<

[N1SB]

I just watched a game today, but as has been the case for these early matches, the post-game was more interesting than the fight.

 

 

7. Your list-expansion strategy should be part of your list-building strategy

 

 

This especially affects Elite armies Grey Knights, Harlequins, and in this case, Tyranids.

 

In other related threads I already mentioned we should plan ahead for our "free" 100 points to Recruit or Rearm (as long as the Leader doesn't outright die) should be factored in as part of your list-building.  Like know in advance a Novitiate Scout recruit with bolt pistol and free knife is exactly 100 points, etc.  Today I saw a player who's a Financial Controller in real life, really optimise this idea.  It's like this:

 

Game 1 - use 1000 starting points for just under-equipped Tyranids but 1 Heavy Weapons guy, plan to Bottle out

Game 2 - add 100 Rearm points to make those 3 "fully-operational" with biomorphs and weapons he initially planned

Game 3 - use 100 Recruit points + a Promethium Cache to get a Tyranid Juve

Later down the line - more plans and contingencies

 

I asked him why not get the Tyranid Juve 1st, it was just a strategic choice on his part (can't say he's right or wrong, I favour Boys Over Toys and letting Juves get experience early), but he has plans and I didn't want to interfere.  We RP with him and he's a very optimised min-maxer, so he's got his own plan.

 

And that RP experience actually is the best analogy here.  For those of you that play RPGs or MMOs, it's the idea of a "Leveling Build".  Even when you made your character, you already decided what you're going to take 10 levels from now.  It's worth changing our 40k/30k mindset of "here's my army list" to "here's my army list today, but this is my army list next game if I win, or this one if I lose".

 

Disclaimer: the following statement is not to disparage anyone's ideas or say it's questionable.  I'm noticing people are house-ruling how many points you can spend each post-game, because some factions have a harder time to fitting in Recruits in 100 point blocks.  At the moment, I don't think that's necessary because it's like in certain RPGs/MMOs, certain classes are really good at early levels but are completely dominated at the later ones; it's part of how they're balanced.  We need more time playing campaigns to know if that's true, I'm just saying, don't take it as a given either way.  But in any case, have plans in advance on how to progress.

 

 

8. Movement is getting insane in Shadow War...because Xenos

 

 

This especially affects anyone facing Eldar and Tyranids.

 

(Ties in with not relying on Necromunda experiences.)  Most things in the game move at 4".  Eldar Harlequins move at 6" to start, Tyranids can get Adrenal Glands to get up to 6", and there are Advancements to further increase that (the Eldar Harlequin team got 2 guys that got those buffs).

 

Despite (or because) Shadow War being a small-scale infantry game, you really notice the effects of speed.  The Eldar Harlequin Leader now has a 7" Movement; he can run 14" and flips over terrain and stuff to grab loot counters, etc.  I had a situation where my opponent almost did a Blood Bowl-like move of grabbing an Objective and running off the field in a single insane Eldar dash.

 

Because there's a lot of mission objectives in this game that involves avoiding combat and running away with an Objective, keep this in mind.  Might have to play more conservatively, be more willing to sacrifice people just to tie up an enemy, than we would normally do.

 

 

9. Shooting is for locking down, Melee is for taking out of action

 

 

This affects people playing against Orks or with Chaos Space Marines.

 

Brothers, don't be surprised if you see Orks where the Trooper Boyz have just a Slugga while the Recruit Yoofs have the longer-range and pricier Shootas.  The idea is, because Ork shooting is universally bad, they're using Yoofs to just pin people so the most experience Boyz can reach them when they're down with their higher WS.  The idea is Ork Boys are really quite good in melee, the problem is they're slow moving, need some way to slow enemies down, like pinning.

 

Aside from Orks, Chaos Space Marines might do this.  I previously underestimated the Mark of Khorne and I'm starting to see my error.  The idea is you take Khornate Space Marines geared for melee, then Cultists with Autoguns.  The purpose of the Cultists isn't to kill with shooting, but to pin enemies for Khorne Marines to finish them off, because CSM don't have the insane mobility that, say, Eldar or Tyranids have.

 

But there's a slight problem with that...

 

 

10.  Tyranids and Eldar Harlequins cannot be pinned (except by like an autocannon)

 

 

This is a little bit ridiculous.  Tyranid Warriors, being these hulking organic killing machines, can't be pinned, which makes sense for them.  But then, neither can Harlequins, because they're special snowflakes.

 

Just making you aware of that situation in advance, your normal covering fire tactics don't really work on these guys like they normally do.

Edited April 16, 2017 by Not 1 Step Backwards

[NatBrannigan]

It's clear now why the Eldar rules are as they are, the Emperor is testing us brothers! Our hatred of their hideously overpowered rules only fuels our righteous anger! Anyway, when sisters of battle get rules and Flamers are mandatory... lets see them prance away from that!

 

It reminds me of my old blood bowl league and the hatred Wardancers got. The biggest cheer we ever had went up when one particular Wardancer, put out of action by my own Kroxigor I might add, died after the game! The beauty of games like this is that it really is the journey that's most fun, not the eventual winner. Long after a Shadow War league has finished the winner will be forgotten, but that time your Boyz cornered that pointy ear and beat the living snot out of him, even as his mates made off with all the loot? That's what you'll remember.

[Brother Tyler]

It's clear now why the Eldar rules are as they are, the Emperor is testing us brothers! Our hatred of their hideously overpowered rules only fuels our righteous anger! Anyway, when sisters of battle get rules and Flamers are mandatory... lets see them prance away from that!

The Adepta Sororitas [and the Inquisition] have been added to the downloadable faction rules at GW's site.

[N1SB]

Thanks for the heads up, Brother.  It's the Inquisition that looks OP, by and large due to its sheer flexibility and versatility.

 

Edit - really appreciate the post, Tyler, as this was kind of a quiet release, stuck at the end of the previous merged SW:A Rosters pdf from before.  I took a longer look at it now.

 

Inquisition NOT OP, just very customisation-friendly and there are some pretty good combos, like how their Troopers can all take Storm Bolters, a powerful combo from 40k.  Power armour almost an obvious take for the Inquisitor himself.  Astra Militarum and Scouts still remain very relevant, though.

Edited April 22, 2017 by Not 1 Step Backwards

[CommodusXIII]

INQ is also balanced somewhat by being limited in skill availability.

[Draakur]

As someone who'd like to re-enter the tabletop aspect of the hobby, but in a less time-intensive fashion than typical 30K/40K, would people recommend this?

 

Does it feel roughly balanced, so far (or just too early to say?)

[Panzer]

As someone who'd like to re-enter the tabletop aspect of the hobby, but in a less time-intensive fashion than typical 30K/40K, would people recommend this?

 

Does it feel roughly balanced, so far (or just too early to say?)

Definitely yes.

Balanced tho....hmm hard to tell. I feel like Tau for example are actually quite weak in most missions since they have low BS, low range and are rather squishy. But it's really hard to tell in one-off games since the whole system is designed around playing a campaign where the teams grow (which automatically casues some of them to be unbalanced by design).

It's all about being able to talk about awesome things that happen in some of the games instead of having a real competetive match. ;)

 

For example the first mission in our group, the Skitarii player had to attack the base of our Tyranid player. The Skitarii rolled badly and had only very few of his guys on the table while the Tyranid player had all three of his guys. The Skitarii player also rolled the hidden mission of having to kill the opponents Leader.

Well the Skitarii had a really hard time and he was actually thinking about retreating because half of his team was down while all three of the Tyranid were still alive (with the Leader with a single wound left). It's still the Tyranids player, he moves his Leader back into Line of Sight of one of the Skitarii who is set on Overwatch and he actually manages to kill him with a very unlikely lucky shot.

The after mission stuff shows that the Skitarii, even tho they have won, suffered heavy losses....but managed to capture the Tyranid Leader. So he had "won" by a lucky shot but was further behind than the Tyranid player.

Now after a few games nobody really cares anymore about who actually won this game but we're still talking about how he barely managed to capture the Tyranid Leader by sacrificing half of his team. :D

That Tyranid must have had some very interesting technology for the Mechanicum to have it as such a high priority target.... :D

[N1SB]

As someone who'd like to re-enter the tabletop aspect of the hobby, but in a less time-intensive fashion than typical 30K/40K, would people recommend this?

 

Does it feel roughly balanced, so far (or just too early to say?)

 

 

I wrote a long reply, but I'll cut it short to this:

 

My only regret is this game didn't come out when I myself returned to The Hobby, because it's probably most ideal for "Lapsed" players.  I get the same "kick" from this as I did when I first played 1st ed and (Advanced) Space Crusade.

 

I don't know if it's well-balanced yet because I think the teams are balanced over the course of a campaign instead of a single battle; it's premature to judge this campaign-based game using individual battles (as said above).  There are clear early-campaign winners (imho Eldar Harlequins), but I'm finding certain factions start to be much more powerful mid-campaign (imho Scouts and Orks), and I'm anticipating the dynamics will change once again in the late-campaign.

 

My recommendation, from a guy that's come back 40k 6th ed, finally got my army painted 7th ed, then moved quickly over to 30k, now this, I wish I could start over and just paint what I really was curious about in Shadow War (which would've been Skitarii for me because it's a new faction based on an old concept), and/or wait for 8th ed to come out.