Is Initiative important in SW:A?

[The Traitor]

Okay so, as I see that people are starting to get some games of Shadow War: Armageddon, I wanted to ask a question: how much has initiative came up in your games?

I'm asking with the Mark of Slaanesh for a CSM team in mind, but this could be useful for anyone as there is a skill which makes you choose between initiative and movement and, as things are right now, I would definitely go for movement.

For what I know Initiative serves for winning draws in hand to hand combat but then, wouldn't it be better to invest in actually winning the combat? (In my case taking a Mark of Khorne instead, which grants +1 A). Another use for Initiative is not getting pinned, but in armies like CSM that will most likely consist of groups of troopers accompanied by new recruits or no one at all, you'll rarely get a check. The other thing that initiative serves for is to determine your maximum charge distance, but unless I've read it wrong, if you don't also increase your movement somehow it serves you for nothing. At last it has some minor uses, like detecting hidden enemies or not falling from an edge, but I don't think that any of that could really make a difference. So, am I missing something? I will most probably end up taking a marine with MoS anyways for fluff, but it would be great to have the opinion of players who had actually played the game !

[Charlo]

It breaks ties in combat, which could be pretty huge for sure!

[NatBrannigan]

It seems to be fairly useful in lots of different ways rather than really useful in one way. So +1 Attack makes a huge difference in close combat, but that's it. +1 Initiative is slightly useful in close combat if there's a draw, but it's also slightly useful for leaping over gaps, getting up, spotting hidden enemies, spotting the other team when you patrol in some missions. If there are also initiative based skills then that's gravy.

 

So in answer to your question, I guess yes, kind of!

[Reyner]

If you play on terrain with lots of level and ledges Initiative could be very important! 

[Cactus]

It was important in Necromunda and from reading the Shadow War rules I expect it to be equally important.

 

# Recovering from pinning at the start of your turn, unless you're close enough to your leader to use his initiative stat instead.

 

# Not falling from upper levels.

 

# Winning tied results in close combat. More attacks are also good, but increase the chance of rolling ones and giving the enemy +1 (or more) to their total.

 

# Spotting hidden fighters.

 

# Charging fighters who are out of sight.

 

# Noticing the enemy when you're defending in Raid or Hit and Run.

[The Traitor]

Thanks for the quick anwsers, my aspiring champion in an upcoming SW:A campaign in my store will have MoS, so I'll see how it goes, but I'm glad to see that people think for it to be useful after all.

[Sugarlessllama]

I think MoS would be a really solid mark to have for a Kill Team.

[NatBrannigan]

I can now tell you that having low initiative can be a real pain if that helps... My Orks just spent most of a game pinned in cover getting picked off slowly and I couldn't make the roll to get them to stand back up! My own fault really so not a game breaking issue, far from it in fact. I genuinely enjoyed being appropriately punished for making a mistake in the game (getting most of my mob in one small area of cover surrounded by open ground, and not being able to escape from it easily at all).

[N1SB]

Ditto the above.  To just highlight the key point:

 

We associate Initiative with Close Combat, due to years of 40k.  In Shadow War, it's RECOVERING from Pinning that's the issue that comes up most often.  Shadow War, like Necromunda before it, is more about controlling your opponent than inflicting casualties.

 

Ironically, Slaanesh Marines look really, really good to me now (Edit - because previously I was all "nooo, Toughness!  Saving throw modifiers, so Toughness is the key!"  Then I actually played and I was like "oh ya, Pinning...Pinning is a thing."  That caused a course-correction in a hurry.)

[The Traitor]

Okay so Initiative is like the utility attribute? Well, that's good to hear, my Slaanesh champion won't spend too much time on the floor!

[N1SB]

Initiative is exactly the Utility stat.

 

Because like most Utility stats in, say, roleplaying games, Initiative looks boring on paper but turns out to be important in practice.  We focus on things that do damage (WS, BS, S, even A) or survivability (T, W) over things that we don't think about until we're in the game (i.e. the shot didn't kill you, but now you're constantly pinned down by fire).

 

The broader issue is how would we rank the Marks of Chaos.  This is just my view from playing:

 

Top Marks - Nurgle and Slaanesh, T5 is great, T4 usually good enough, I need some "I"

 

Mid Marks - Tzeentch, because the Save Modifiers reduce effectiveness of Power Armour, Invul save is nice, some bonus gear

 

Bottom Marks - tbh, probably Khorne.  Not to show disrespect, it's just the mechanics put close combat is secondary to ranged.  Chaos SM lacks movement speed, will probably get pinned in practice.  It's a different meta from 40k; that's not a bad thing, it might just be new to many if not most now.  You'll see when you watch people get kited and pinned.

 

Now, just IMHO, but I think as the Shadow War meta matures, it'll end up something like this.  Don't feel bad if people say Slaanesh isn't as powerful as the others; it's probably because those guys haven't quite played enough games yet.  It's not a Primary stat, but certainly a very Utility one.

[Kastor Krieg]

> Not to show disrespect, it's just the mechanics put close combat is secondary to ranged.

Not enough terrain. If you think you have "enough" of terrain, you are doing it wrong. Open lanes for fire result in OP shooting. More terrain, more rubble. Make it look as if a bomb went off.

[Cactus]

Close combat is also a much more reliable way of putting the enemy out of action. Injured by gunfire? 1/6 chance of going out of action. Injured in a one-on-one melee? 5/6 chance of going out of action.

[N1SB]

> Not to show disrespect, it's just the mechanics put close combat is secondary to ranged.

 

Not enough terrain. If you think you have "enough" of terrain, you are doing it wrong. Open lanes for fire result in OP shooting. More terrain, more rubble. Make it look as if a bomb went off.

 

 

Close combat is also a much more reliable way of putting the enemy out of action. Injured by gunfire? 1/6 chance of going out of action. Injured in a one-on-one melee? 5/6 chance of going out of action.

 

 

Ya, I understated the thing with close combat, considering how I dominated tonight's game with 1-on-1 or 2-on-1 melee.

 

Nonetheless...Pinning is still a thing.  An Initiative of 5 for Slaanesh?  I wish I had that tonight as I played a 2nd game with Chaos SM where I chose the Mark of Nurgle.  The people who were going to be taken out, T4 or T5, didn't matter, they got Pinned and charged by mobbed in melee (3-on-1).  If they had the Initiative to tactically retreat, that probably would have mattered more than Toughness.