Jackalwolf Posted April 21, 2017 Share Posted April 21, 2017 Hi all, I'm finalizing my SW list but when thinking which dreadnought I wanted to have inside my Mastodon, I realised that was the Cortus with dual Chainfists. Just as a quick comparison vs the Dreadnought acknowledged as best in CC: Striking before A: 5 To hit: 2.5 Not saved: 1.25 AP 13: Pen Destroyed: 41.7% Striking together A: 6 To hit: 3 Not saved: 1.5 AP 13: Pen Destroyed: 50% Due to it's special rules, a Cortus can have 6 Attacks on the charge (mine will always get the charge since he's inside a Mastodon), or 5 Attacks on the charge striking BEFORE the Leviathan. So the math says that there's a 50% chance of destroying the Leviathan if you risk your Cortus and strike at the same time or a 41.7% chance of destroying it if you safely strike before. If you do the best of both worlds and select an extra Attack on turn one and strike at +1 I in turn 2 of the duel, you pretty much have the clear upper hand in the duel (75% of chances of destroying it if you survive turn 1). Not bad considering the cortus with 2x chainfists is less than half the price of the Leviathan huh? Striking before A: 5 To hit: 2.5 Not saved: 1.25 AP 13: Pen Destroyed: 41.7% Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333123-cortus-vs-leviathan/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted April 21, 2017 Share Posted April 21, 2017 Leviathan also can't ride in a Mastodon ! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333123-cortus-vs-leviathan/#findComment-4715855 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackalwolf Posted April 21, 2017 Author Share Posted April 21, 2017 Fair point! Actually, if you put 2 Cortus in the Mastodon, for the same price you have a guaranteed kill lol. Plus I bet not many people would feel their Leviathan threatened by a Cortus charging unless they've felt this situation before. Intuitively it just screams the Leviathan will pulverize the Cortus I'd imagine for most people (I know it did for me). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333123-cortus-vs-leviathan/#findComment-4715867 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROBOcaster Posted April 21, 2017 Share Posted April 21, 2017 Also save yourself 10 points, you only need one chainfist. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333123-cortus-vs-leviathan/#findComment-4715869 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackalwolf Posted April 21, 2017 Author Share Posted April 21, 2017 Really? I thought the Chainfist was Specialist but the Contemptor CC Weapon no, or it doesn't matter in Walkers? Can you confirm? That'd be awesome Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333123-cortus-vs-leviathan/#findComment-4715885 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted April 21, 2017 Share Posted April 21, 2017 Yep, they use a profile found in the FAQ - not a specialist weapon. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333123-cortus-vs-leviathan/#findComment-4715888 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackalwolf Posted April 21, 2017 Author Share Posted April 21, 2017 Woho! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333123-cortus-vs-leviathan/#findComment-4715894 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorgoff Posted April 21, 2017 Share Posted April 21, 2017 When you bring a Mastodon effectiveness is off the chart anyway. Why Mathhammer? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333123-cortus-vs-leviathan/#findComment-4716054 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkimaskMohawk Posted April 21, 2017 Share Posted April 21, 2017 Uhh your math seems off. With 1.25 rolls on the damage table you have a 21.25% of an explodes, 1.5 results in a 25.5% chance. A Leviathan (with one gun arm and one siege drill) then has a 34% to explode the cortus. The Leviathan is "the best" because it has the most hullpoints backed up with the strongest and omnipresent Invul save out of all of the dreads. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333123-cortus-vs-leviathan/#findComment-4716072 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Asvaldir Posted April 21, 2017 Share Posted April 21, 2017 Yeah I have trouble seeing how the cortus would easily beat a leviathan in an assault, especially considering the cortus get's a ++6 in cc while the leviathan gets a ++4. Sure the cortus is super cost effective, but the leviathan is still a beast. Plus your calculations didn't take into account that if the leviathan charges, and your cortus doesn't have the initiative bonus active, the cortus is finished before it will get a chance to strike. Now yes two cortuses are about the same price as a leviathan and have a solid chance of beating it, but I'd hardly say that makes the leviathan not worth taking. Really I wouldn't even consider the two in the exact same role despite being dreadnoughts. The cortus is just a cheap, cost effective but weaker dreadnought that's good to spam, while the leviathan is a tough, hard hitting beast that can carry much heavier weaponry. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333123-cortus-vs-leviathan/#findComment-4716088 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorgoff Posted April 21, 2017 Share Posted April 21, 2017 Yeah I have trouble seeing how the cortus would easily beat a leviathan in an assault, especially considering the cortus get's a ++6 in cc while the leviathan gets a ++4. Sure the cortus is super cost effective, but the leviathan is still a beast. Plus your calculations didn't take into account that if the leviathan charges, and your cortus doesn't have the initiative bonus active, the cortus is finished before it will get a chance to strike. Now yes two cortuses are about the same price as a leviathan and have a solid chance of beating it, but I'd hardly say that makes the leviathan not worth taking. Really I wouldn't even consider the two in the exact same role despite being dreadnoughts. The cortus is just a cheap, cost effective but weaker dreadnought that's good to spam, while the leviathan is a tough, hard hitting beast that can carry much heavier weaponry. It's even worse because the Cortus' Atomantic Deflector doesn't provide an invulnerable save in CC. ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333123-cortus-vs-leviathan/#findComment-4716125 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Withershadow Posted April 21, 2017 Share Posted April 21, 2017 This is the most ridiculous comparison I've seen on here in a while. Two of one dreadnought are better than another dreadnought because you are "guaranteed" a charge by taking a transport that costs more than all of them combined? Nothing is guaranteed, and at best the two Cortus will stall against a Leviathan, but more than likely will die since its more accurate and cuts through their armor, while itself being behind a 4+ invulnerable. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333123-cortus-vs-leviathan/#findComment-4716208 Share on other sites More sharing options...
shandwen Posted April 23, 2017 Share Posted April 23, 2017 And what happens when the levy crumples the mastadon and blocks the front hatch? Disembarking from the rear and hoping for a good charge? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333123-cortus-vs-leviathan/#findComment-4717665 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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