[IRON GAUNTLET] Ouroborus Perdition - Two IA's

[Kelborn]

Well, they did cover it partially with the Tau and early Eldar. :)

 

But you're right, a full Japanese themed chapter is still missing. Thankfully, we got such creative people like Athrawes or our Iron Gauntlet participants. ;)

[Minigiant]

I will concentrate on your Black Ronin comments, as the Night Vipers are currently undergoing "surgery" aka debating changing the name to Ghost Cobras

 

Anyway

 

That being said, the IA for your Black Ronin still needs a little work. It's full of little errors and there are parts that feel incomplete and not fully realized. For example, you mention that the Ronin lack numbers due to their TBH strange organizational structure, but then go on to later suggest that they have the forces necessary to eliminate an entire force of Chaos Marines by themselves. I find this hard to believe.

 

All in all I like the idea but it's still rough and needs a little work, I look forward to seeing how it turns out.

 

Thank you for the feedback. Lets start with the organisation. You say it is strange but it is completely ripped off of the Space Wolves, including numbers. Would you blink an eye if I said Space wolves destroyed an entire force of CSM's?

 

What areas do you think arent fully realised and incomplete? Without details I cannot address them.

 

As for all the grammatical areas, that will be addressed when fully fleshed out

[Minigiant]

So I hope to have the 47 black shields story finished tomorrow.

 

I have began to turn my attention back to the Night Vipers. They are going to be moved to Fleet based, still recruiting from their homeworld. A hub for Space Pirates. Create a culture, to create a ghost ship feel. I will justify the army having an apothecary and tech arm trained marines in the squad due to a greater involvement of the Biologis

[TheBlindPrimarch]

To answer your questions, I had a little trouble understanding how the story of the governor fit into the Chapter's origin so if you were to expand on the connection there I think it would help, other than that there were a few ideas that felt that they needed more substance, but short of picking your entire IA apart to illustrate my point I can't really tell you which parts specifically. 

 

As far as ripping the organization of the Space Wolves, no problem with that here, but it didn't read like that well enough for me to recognize it...or maybe I'm just being dense, who knows lol. That being said, the organization of the Space Wolves doesn't result in them having limited numbers as far as I know, so why would it result in the Ronin being a diminished force? Maybe they suffered a considerable number of casualties that they haven't recovered from yet?

[Minigiant]

To answer your questions, I had a little trouble understanding how the story of the governor fit into the Chapter's origin so if you were to expand on the connection there I think it would help, other than that there were a few ideas that felt that they needed more substance, but short of picking your entire IA apart to illustrate my point I can't really tell you which parts specifically. 

 

As far as ripping the organization of the Space Wolves, no problem with that here, but it didn't read like that well enough for me to recognize it...or maybe I'm just being dense, who knows lol. That being said, the organization of the Space Wolves doesn't result in them having limited numbers as far as I know, so why would it result in the Ronin being a diminished force? Maybe they suffered a considerable number of casualties that they haven't recovered from yet?

 

I would appreciate if you would, what needs expanding. No one else is suggesting it. I would appreciate direction I guess is what I am saying. I know Gene-seed is short but cannot think of any reason as to why I need to expand it. Short, concise, and to the point. As for the goverbor, he is simply a part of the 47 blackshields story I am writing (Finished below). The chapters name is simply honouring their sacrifice

 

Someone else had noticed the Space wolves structure, all I can say is I tried to remove as much 'wolfyness' from the organisation as possible to try and make it feel unique

 

I cannot remember where I read the space wolves are a smaller chapter, googling it yu find discussions on them being small/codex/larger so I guess it comes down to interpretation

 

 

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Added a small note about Oteras only Imperial guard regiment to define what is meant by the term Ashigaru

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Now my completed 47 Blackshields story. (Its not pretty but it covers the basics)

 

During one of the darkest parts of the Horus Heresy, Praetor Setesh of the XVth Legion, one of Magnus’ highest military officials was ordered to occupy the planet Otera, where they were tasked with locating the Kawari Kabuto Helm, a mighty artefact capable to turning the tide of the great events that were unfolding around them, an artefact Ahriman himself had narrowed down to the planet. Setesh’s secondary objective was to unravel the Ouroborus stars, and to determine the likelihood that they could be harnessed.

Asano Naganori's Seppuku

Planetary governor Asano Naganori, the Daimyo of the Planet was assigned in name only to assist the Praetor in any way possible. The meagre gifts Asano Naganori had presented did very little to soften Setesh presence in his lands. Asano Naganori had become deeply insulted by this but what was he to do, for he could not stand up to the might of these imposing giants clad in impenetrable armour, and capable of turning rock into dust with just their hands. No matter Asano Naganori’s approach, Setesh remained un-cooperative and scornful of Asano Naganori's manners.

 

On the day Setesh learned that Asano Naganori was the only inhabitant to know of the whereabouts of the ancient helm they seeked, Asano Naganori only response to being asked where they were to find it was "You should have found out long ago, I am too busy to help you now."

 

With his pride and his patience goaded beyond endurance, Setesh drew his sword in anger, lashing out and scaring Asano Naganori across his face before he restrained himself. For the crime of withholding information Asano Naganori was condemned to torture before being executing. However before Asano Naganori was able to be tortured, he enacted seppuku, or ritual suicide. That very day he forfeited his life, in belief it would be saving billions.

 

Whispers and gossip quickly carried the news of Asano Naganori’s death and the great sacrifice he had made for the Emperor. The situation was serious. Not only was their governor dead, but his lands and holdings were overrun and controlled by the fifteenth legion. The local inhabitants had lost all hope of this nightmare ending, with the little of what remained being in the prayers that the emperor would deliver them from evil. There prayers were not long answered.

 

An Imperial vessel carrying Legionnaires still loyal to the Emperor crash landed on the planet. Setesh redeployed some of his troops under his command from searching for the artefact to intercept the threat these new arrivals posed.

Giants clad in adamantium, scorched in fire, these soldiers loyal to the Emperor were outgunned, outnumber, and out positioned. There arrival at first seemed nothing more than arriving for their death. While many perished a small group managed to survive thanks to the bravery a handful of natives acting upon the honour and death of Asano Naganori.

 

Their survival drastically improved when news came through that the XVth legion was to withdraw and redeploy. While a blessing in disguise, from that news it was clear that Setesh had found the Helm and was preparing to deliver it right into the hands of Magnus himself.

 

This is where the remaining survivors of the crash, all forty seven of them prepared to lay down their lives to continue to give what remained of the Imperium a fighting chance to survive and repel the traitors they once called brothers. As snow sifted down on the evening before Setesh’s departure, the forty-seven Legionairres clad in armour as black as smoke met outside Tengu, then Oteras capital, and prepared for their attack. With information gathered from the native servants and artisans that had spied on Setesh.

 

Setesh garrisoned inside the Ninna-ji temple, the largest in the city. The black marines made their way through the city under the cover of darkness. Encountering very little resistance, the made their way up the temple until they finally made it to Setesh’s chamber. The marines clad in black made light work of Seteshs personal guard waiting outside his room. Inside Setesh unprepared to face any challenger in combat was still no easy challenge. One blackshield stepped forward and bought his sword down upon him for him to only parry it away with his strength and speed. The dual raged on between these two wrecking the room and destroying what would be now priceless relics. It was only when the two were held even with their blades was the Black Legionnaire able to grab Asano Naganori’s seppuku blade with their free hand and slice Seteshs throat. The Tyrant of Otera was slain.

 

By the time of Setesh’s timely demise, Legionnaires under his command had organised and begun to repel the assault. Knowing there was no way of survival forty six Legionairres prepared to lay down their lives so one of their own could make it out of the city with the Helm, and hide it somewhere no one could possibly find it. It is said that one Legionnaire walked for thousands of miles to defend the Imperium. The XVth legion never found the surviving blackshield, nor the helm but it was not long without an established command, they received orders to leave. No Legionnaire loyal to Horus ever stepped foot on Otera ever again.

[Bjorn Firewalker]

Good job.

[Minigiant]

So began working on the Night Vipers homeworld. For the chapter I want you to think Black Sails. The chapter are fleet based on 'ghost' ships, they disembark to do their manipulation.

 

Homeworld

K

ukulka, an Eta or hive world in the Gothic Sector, and centre of the Cacique system, the base of operations and recruitment for the Night Vipers of the Adeptus Astartes. Home to billions of lives, Kukulka also hosts a great many Freebooters, Rogue traders, Pirates, or anybody else really that seeks to use Kukulka's space station as an opportunity to make a quick buck.
 

 

Upon the surface lay a great many hive cities tearing out of the scorched earth. Between which lay a swathe of unrelenting arid desert, very few dare attempt to cross, even fewer survive the ordeal. The Vipers maintain only one building on the surface of Kukulka, primarily for the sole purpose for recruitment as well as the training of the chapters apothecaries. Built in the middle of one of Kukulkas largest deserts, a thousand miles from any other sort of habitation, its towering steel walls can often be seen glinting in the distance. If you are not presganged into service of the Vipers, the only true way of them noticing your potential as an Astartes would be to make the thousand mile trek across the desert to the steel monolith that scars the landscape.

 

http://i655.photobucket.com/albums/uu274/Minigiant/b2fb9e12-ada7-4d0e-b0a3-dc91061cc53d_zpslh7ahmnf.png

Kukulka'

 

Kukulka’s space station Kami a retro-fitted star fortress is one of the largest orbiting space ports in existence. On board all manner of items are available for purchase. All of this in overseen by Eleanor Guthrie the current head of the wealthiest black marketeering family in Kukulka, they claim in the Segmentum Obscuris. The Guthries are the chief fence and supplier for the many crews that dock upon Kami's ports. The Guthrie family has held this position since before the Vipers founding, and it is customary for those at the head of the family to continue to honour a pact between the governor and Night Vipers. The longer the Guthrie family has remained in power, the more beneficial the relationship between governor and Viper has become, as such they continue to play a greater level involvement in the politics of the planet, anything to keep the Guthries in power.

 

Due to its unique geopolitical landscape it is unique among the worlds under the protection of the Imperium, apart from Terra and Mars, that it is able to dominate over other planets in the system to the extent that it could be considered rule.

 

Recruitment

R

ecruitment for the Night Vipers comes from amongst the Freebooters, Rogue Traders, and Pirates that dock there. Everyone experts in navigating the social political landscape that makes up Kukulka. Ideal upbringing for the Vipers code operati. The only way a native may become an initiate is to  survive the thousand mile trek from the cities, through arid wastes and raging dust storms to reach the chapter's base, their only structure to grace the land, are given the chance to become an Initiate. A great trial for a people used to living in the dark depths of a hive city.

 

Ideally it is best to recruit from this pool before the initiate reaches adolescence, in that way they are aware of the jostling but have yet to fully realise their own human desires.

 

Kukulka Freebooter'

Those ships known to the Vipers to provide exemplary recruits are often rewarded with a letter of marque. A letter providing amnesty from piracy laws as long as the ships plunders are not of the Imperium. A large portion of the pirates begin as privateers with this symbol of legitimacy. The earnings of a privateer are significantly better than any of a soldier at sea. While other planetary governors learned the hard way that Letters of marque aren't always honoured, you would be a braver man than most to dishonour a letter given to you by a Viper. They have eyes and ears everywhere. If you did happen to treat the letter more as a guideline, you would surely never be allowed into Kukultha's sea ports thanks to the Gutherie's.

[NovemberIX]

I like the theme, space pirates, especially 40K space pirates seems like a fun concept. So as this is supposed to be C&C a few questions.

 

• Why would a planetary governor need to resort to the black market?
• How is it more profitable to be involved piracy/the black market than to just be a "regular" planetary governor?
• What sort of goods could a xenos have that an imperial would want? And who would want those goods?
• How is a Letter of Marque different from the general Imperial position of "Suffer not the xenos to live?"

Maybe a Rogue Trader would fit into the role you've given Eleanor, as a spaghetti on the wall idea, maybe transfer her seat of power from planet side to a major space station/star fort, where she can be all piratey without having to handle the logistics of having to meet the Imperial Tithe. I think it could fit the theme as well, it's sorta like the planet itself is the island, whereas the space station is the port (which would make the system itself the Caribbean sea).

 

I love the recruiting method, it seems like it should bring the chapter some very self motivated recruits. I get a very "Place Promised in our Early Days" vibe from the tower. Is the tower an orbital elevator of some kind, and actual building, or just a goal to be reached? (this is more for my edification than anything, as it reads, it's good without getting dragged down by possibly unnecessary detail.)

[Minigiant]

I will discuss this out of order

 

I like the theme, space pirates, especially 40K space pirates seems like a fun concept. So as this is supposed to be C&C a few questions.

 

Well space pirates while in space, in combat they are Alpha Legion, but shhh the Inquisition cannot learn of this

 

Maybe a Rogue Trader would fit into the role you've given Eleanor, as a spaghetti on the wall idea, maybe transfer her seat of power from planet side to a major space station/star fort, where she can be all piratey without having to handle the logistics of having to meet the Imperial Tithe. I think it could fit the theme as well, it's sorta like the planet itself is the island, whereas the space station is the port (which would make the system itself the Caribbean sea).

 

I love this idea, consider it blundered AaaaRrrrrr

 

I like the theme, space pirates, especially 40K space pirates seems like a fun concept. So as this is supposed to be C&C a few questions.

 

• Why would a planetary governor need to resort to the black market?
• How is it more profitable to be involved piracy/the black market than to just be a "regular" planetary governor?
• What sort of goods could a xenos have that an imperial would want? And who would want those goods?
• How is a Letter of Marque different from the general Imperial position of "Suffer not the xenos to live?"

 

1&2)Do not need to answer these now, thanks to someones brilliant spagetti throwing

 

3) Well my first thought was technology, especially as they have a closer than normal relationship with the Mechanicus

 

4) Well I thought the Letter of Marque could also be given to Xenos, as well as it legalising piracy against non-imperium non-xenos races

 

I love the recruiting method, it seems like it should bring the chapter some very self motivated recruits. I get a very "Place Promised in our Early Days" vibe from the tower. Is the tower an orbital elevator of some kind, and actual building, or just a goal to be reached? (this is more for my edification than anything, as it reads, it's good without getting dragged down by possibly unnecessary detail.)

 

Well in my notebook, I know but as you said it does not necessarily need to be written into it. As it may just ask my questions than it answers.

 

Just for you though, it is a space lift

[Minigiant]

Updated homeworld, and recruitment (Just a little on the later)

[Bjorn Firewalker]

Are those who bear letters of marque, allowed to attack Rogue Traders? How about Chaos renegades? (The latter are potentially corruptive, transforming those who claim them into Chaos renegades as well.) "Of the Imperium" should include all human-operated ships, with the obvious exception of those Chaos operates.

 

What does a letter of marque allow its holder to do? Seize xeno artifacts without worrying the Ordo Xenos will seize the artifact in turn, and punish the freebooter for possession of xenos artifacts? Seize archeotech the freebooter "just happened to find somewhere," without worrying the AdMech may demand the archeotech be surrendered to its custody?

[Minigiant]

Are those who bear letters of marque, allowed to attack Rogue Traders? How about Chaos renegades? (The latter are potentially corruptive, transforming those who claim them into Chaos renegades as well.) "Of the Imperium" should include all human-operated ships, with the obvious exception of those Chaos operates.

 

What does a letter of marque allow its holder to do? Seize xeno artifacts without worrying the Ordo Xenos will seize the artifact in turn, and punish the freebooter for possession of xenos artifacts? Seize archeotech the freebooter "just happened to find somewhere," without worrying the AdMech may demand the archeotech be surrendered to its custody?

 

Never thought the Letter of the Marque would cause so many problems. Will work on it tomorrow. I may attempt to create the letter as an example of what it would look like.

 

Yes to all those things

[Bjorn Firewalker]

If a letter of marque gives its bearer power over the Inquisition, the AdMech, and other very important Imperial institutions, the one who issues the letter must be even more important. A mere Space Marine Chapter will not suffice; as you imply the letter of marque grants its bearer rights comparable to a Rogue Trader's warrant of trade, the one who issues the former must have authority comparable to the latter, e.g., the High Lords of Terra or the Emperor Himself.

 

Otherwise, the letter implies the bearer has zero respect for Imperial authority, meaning the Inquisition (and any Space Marines willing to answer its call) will order the purge of those who bear letters of marque, in addition to those who issued it.

[Minigiant]

If a letter of marque gives its bearer power over the Inquisition, the AdMech, and other very important Imperial institutions, the one who issues the letter must be even more important. A mere Space Marine Chapter will not suffice; as you imply the letter of marque grants its bearer rights comparable to a Rogue Trader's warrant of trade, the one who issues the former must have authority comparable to the latter, e.g., the High Lords of Terra or the Emperor Himself.

 

Otherwise, the letter implies the bearer has zero respect for Imperial authority, meaning the Inquisition (and any Space Marines willing to answer its call) will order the purge of those who bear letters of marque, in addition to those who issued it.

I will just drop it, I thought it was a cool idea I just cannot think of a way to use it.

 

Any ideas of how to continue the pirate theme

[Minigiant]

Update to the final paragraph, recruitment section

 

Those ships known to the Vipers to provide regular initiates are often granted leniency to the actions and practises. The opportunities this presents are unbound as the earnings of a privateer are significantly better than any of a soldier enlisted in the astra militarum. In this way it is common for pirates to have begun life as a privateer. It was not before they leanrn that the Vipers and the Gutheries are content in allowing you to go about your way with little in the way of rules. While other planetary governors learned the hard way that lniency is often exploited as a sign of weakness, you would be a braver soul than most to displease the Gutheries, or to insult the Vipers act of kindness as any more of a way for them to achieve their goals. They have eyes and ears everywhere. If you did happen to believe your treatment and favour as a sign of legitimacy, you would surely be put out of business never be allowed into Kukultha's sea ports thanks to the Gutherie's. There is good reason why the sailors have become all the more aware of the meaning 'Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned'

[Bjorn Firewalker]

The update is good enough. Sometimes, it's best to leave details to your readers' imagination.

[Minigiant]

Does the current state of the Night Vipers IA (While admitedly still needing lots of work) come across as if they could potentially be descendants of the Alpha Legion gene-seed. Or is it not enough? I am finding it difficult treading the line between being so discreet that there is no hint of AL, or being so blatant that it becomes tongue in cheek

[Bjorn Firewalker]

I've yet to recognize a reference to the Alpha Legion, beyond naming the planet after a Maya serpent deity. Perhaps the link should be worked in when you write of the Chapter's history, including battles it fought in.

[Minigiant]

I've yet to recognize a reference to the Alpha Legion, beyond naming the planet after a Maya serpent deity. Perhaps the link should be worked in when you write of the Chapter's history, including battles it fought in.

 

Thank you

 

The other references/similarities are in the battle doctrine, as well as the gene-seed

[NovemberIX]

Update to the final paragraph, recruitment section

 

... There is good reason why the sailors have become all the more aware of the meaning 'Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned'

So honestly, I'd probably drop this line, it's a bit old timey, trite even. Also it just repeats the point of the previous sentence while unnecessarily bringing gender into the equation. Also, 40K reads as if it's post misogyny, and this feels like it fits in more with the source inspiration material. It'd mean more if the fear of reprisal was more about the Guthries than some nebulous angry harpy that's unhappy.

 

Now as for a way to keep letters of marque/keep the pirateyness. What if the letters of marque are a way to collect on standing bounties in the local system. Example, Captain Harlocke has earned a bit of favor with the Vipers and Guthries, he and his ship "Arcadia" patrol the local sector and if they find archeotech, or sink/loot xenos vessels they will be paid a specific sum of credits as part of a bounty system that only marque holders are able to access. The crew of the Arcadia, who have been doing this for decades, have proven themselves to the Vipers, in return the Vipers have allowed them to hold on to more of their booty. Should a Captain violate the decrees of the Marque and attack an Imperial vessel or a Guthrie one, then they will face a full system wide censure, in the least they will find no safe harbor, no port, and no supplies, at worst they will be hunted down as a special bounty by their former peers.

[Minigiant]

 

 

Update to the final paragraph, recruitment section

 

... There is good reason why the sailors have become all the more aware of the meaning 'Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned'

So honestly, I'd probably drop this line, it's a bit old timey, trite even. Also it just repeats the point of the previous sentence while unnecessarily bringing gender into the equation. Also, 40K reads as if it's post misogyny, and this feels like it fits in more with the source inspiration material. It'd mean more if the fear of reprisal was more about the Guthries than some nebulous angry harpy that's unhappy.

 

Now as for a way to keep letters of marque/keep the pirateyness. What if the letters of marque are a way to collect on standing bounties in the local system. Example, Captain Harlocke has earned a bit of favor with the Vipers and Guthries, he and his ship "Arcadia" patrol the local sector and if they find archeotech, or sink/loot xenos vessels they will be paid a specific sum of credits as part of a bounty system that only marque holders are able to access. The crew of the Arcadia, who have been doing this for decades, have proven themselves to the Vipers, in return the Vipers have allowed them to hold on to more of their booty. Should a Captain violate the decrees of the Marque and attack an Imperial vessel or a Guthrie one, then they will face a full system wide censure, in the least they will find no safe harbor, no port, and no supplies, at worst they will be hunted down as a special bounty by their former peers.

Great idea, going to use that. Got a cool idea of how to incorporate that story. Cannot add it until weekend unfortunately

[Minigiant]

Updated

 

Recruitment

R

ecruitment for the Night Vipers comes from amongst the Freebooters, Rogue Traders, and Pirates that dock there. Everyone experts in navigating the social political landscape that makes up Kukulka. Ideal upbringing for the Vipers code operati. The only way a native may become an initiate is to  survive the thousand mile trek from the cities, through arid wastes and raging dust storms to reach the chapter's only structure to pierce the landscape, are given the chance to become an Initiate. A great trial for a people used to living in the dark depths of a hive city.

 

Ideally it is best to recruit from this pool before the initiate reaches adolescence, in that way they are aware of the jostling but have yet to fully realise their own human desires.

 

Kukulka Freebooter'

Those ships known to the Vipers to provide regular initiates are often granted a letter of marque as well as greater degree of leniency to their actions and practises. The letter of marque is a unique way of collecting bounties in the local system. A ship carrying the letter will grant the carrier access to an exclusive bounty system that pays large credits in return for specific acquisitions. The opportunities this presents are unbound as the earnings of a privateer are significantly better than any of a soldier enlisted in the astra militarum. In this way it is common for pirates to have begun life as a privateer. It was not before they learn that the Vipers and the Gutheries are content in allowing you to go about your way with little in the way of rules. While other planetary governors learned the hard way that leniency is often exploited as a sign of weakness, you would be a braver soul than most to displease the Gutheries, or to insult the Vipers act of kindness as any more of a way for them to achieve their goals. They have eyes and ears everywhere. If you did happen to believe your treatment and favour as a sign of legitimacy, you would surely be put out of business never be allowed into Kukultha's sea ports thanks to the Gutherie's. The Arcadia the former ship of Captain Harlocke is docked on Kami as a reminder of what can happen if you cross the line. Captain Harlocke over a few decades had proven themselves as enterprising and successful; as a result they had been allowed to keep a greater percentage of their winnings. Until they decided they were going to not declare a few archotech acquisitions. Upon learning of their betrayal, the Gutheries banned them from docking anywhere in the system. Captain Harlocke risked everything trying to escape the influence of the gutheries, shipping out with little to no supplies or fuel. The ship was found floating in the empty vacuum of space with only one survivor on-board, a lowly ship hand that resorted to cannibalism to survive.

[Minigiant]

This is a bit of an experiment in presentation, let me know what you think

 

[Kelborn]

Impressive!

 

Is that background just an example or did you choose it for a certain reason?

 

 

Maybe you'd answered this earlier. If so, sorry for asking.

 

Why would a boy from a buccaneer, pirate, outlaw societey would want to become an Astartes, which stands for order, discipline, etc.?

And why would he walk across a lethal zone in order to become one?

 

Imagine our own golden age of piracy in the 18th & 19th century. Cannot imagine that a young boy, born on Tortuga or another center of pirates would like to become a law following man.

 

Your letter of marque way of recruiting fits way more, imho. It's something I came up as well after reading your stuff. As such, the Vipers do have a very large fleet, right? Would they act as some form of a pdf fleet, answering to the Viper's call?

[Bjorn Firewalker]

The background is beautiful, but when set against TEXT, it becomes an annoying distraction. I saw too many webpages where letters are indistinguishable from the background colors, making words difficult to read.