Primarch Book 4: Perturabo-Hammer of Olympia

[Tymell]

Just finished it, and I loved it through and through, up there with the best of them. All the stuff with the hrud is gripping, the flashbacks to Perturabo’s youth are gloriously entertaining and give well thought-out insights into his character, and the ending itself is perfectly tragic.

 

It genuinely made me feel for Perturabo, while at the same time illustrating that this is at least somewhat his fault. How much exactly is up for debate, but that’s just a result of him being such a well-written character with genuine depth to him. There’s a clear petulance to him, a certainty that he is right, and a stubborn refusal to consider other viewpoints. He’s certain of his superiority, and to some extent he’s right: he -is- superior to most people in a lot of ways. But he’s so sure of that that he never works to win people over or makes the effort to compromise. It leaves me thinking, ‘Okay Perturabo: maybe there was more to you than most bothered to look for. Maybe you could have done much greater things. But how hard did you really try? How quickly did you turn to bitterness?’ He blames others for his failings, but that isn’t all there is to him, and it in turn makes you consider how much of that is a product of his design or upbringing. In short, Perturabo here is a wonderfully fleshed-out, layered character, and it deftly balances out what we’ve seen of him before and how he came to be what he is.

Edited May 15, 2017 by Tymell

[HeritorA]

'that this is at least somewhat his fault' - somewhat his fault is an understatement.

 

'and how he came to be what he is.' - of that we have seen zero. It's all fleshed off screen

[Mantras]

Diving somewhat off topic here, but  in tMoM, its stated the Emperor wishes to sever mankind's reliance of the warp given they will become a entirely psychic race. To me, that clearly means non psyhic Primarchs like Mortarion and Russ would be one day discarded. Unless I've missed where they display psychic powers?

[HeritorA]

Diving somewhat off topic here, but  in tMoM, its stated the Emperor wishes to sever mankind's reliance of the warp given they will become a entirely psychic race. To me, that clearly means non psyhic Primarchs like Mortarion and Russ would be one day discarded. Unless I've missed where they display psychic powers?

Mortarion always had a smallest spur of dread and grave feel over him. Especially for psychic intuitive classes.

Russ has a psychic powers - it was showed several times. Especially in the 'Wolf king' and 'TS' where his arrival was supplemented with the gale of winter wind and icy chill

[Mantras]

 

Diving somewhat off topic here, but  in tMoM, its stated the Emperor wishes to sever mankind's reliance of the warp given they will become a entirely psychic race. To me, that clearly means non psyhic Primarchs like Mortarion and Russ would be one day discarded. Unless I've missed where they display psychic powers?

Mortarion always had a smallest spur of dread and grave feel over him. Especially for psychic intuitive classes.

Russ has a psychic powers - it was showed several times. Especially in the 'Wolf king' and 'TS' where his arrival was supplemented with the gale of winter wind and icy chill

 

 

 

Mortarion actively dispised Pyshic Powers, so wouldn't have had a place in the new order. Off the top of my head the following have never demonstrated any psychic powers:

 

Roboute

Vulkan

Ferrus Manus

Perturabo

Fulgrim (prior)

Night Haunter (visions were not from the warp, this has been established in the Soul Hunter Series)

Rogal Dorn

[Kelborn]

 

 

Diving somewhat off topic here, but in tMoM, its stated the Emperor wishes to sever mankind's reliance of the warp given they will become a entirely psychic race. To me, that clearly means non psyhic Primarchs like Mortarion and Russ would be one day discarded. Unless I've missed where they display psychic powers?

Mortarion always had a smallest spur of dread and grave feel over him. Especially for psychic intuitive classes.

Russ has a psychic powers - it was showed several times. Especially in the 'Wolf king' and 'TS' where his arrival was supplemented with the gale of winter wind and icy chill

Ehm...

The gale of winter and icy chill thing was a biproduct of his armor. It's stated in Retribution.

[LaurieJGoulding]

There is nothing concrete to suggest that any of the primarchs had a place in the Emperor's intended new order for mankind, in however many thousands or millions of years. They were to be retired to Terra, if they survived the Great Crusade - we've seen several indications of this, in several different sources. They weren't intended to "evolve" into a final form that could sit alongside a psychic mankind. I actually question whether or not the Emperor himself (in his physical form) saw himself ruling in the same way...

 

The primarchs were a tool intended to achieve a purpose. They were designed with conquest of the galaxy in mind. They are no different in their intended purpose than the Thunder Warriors - created with the best materials to hand, to do one thing. After that, they are just an unexpected bonus.

 

My SUPREMELY cynical side wants part of the Emperor's plan to have always been that a war between the Legions was necessary in order to thin their numbers down after the Crusade was complete. Maybe he just didn't anticipate Chaos intervening and turning it into such a catastrophe? Or... maybe he did?

[HeritorA]

 

 

Diving somewhat off topic here, but  in tMoM, its stated the Emperor wishes to sever mankind's reliance of the warp given they will become a entirely psychic race. To me, that clearly means non psyhic Primarchs like Mortarion and Russ would be one day discarded. Unless I've missed where they display psychic powers?

Mortarion always had a smallest spur of dread and grave feel over him. Especially for psychic intuitive classes.

Russ has a psychic powers - it was showed several times. Especially in the 'Wolf king' and 'TS' where his arrival was supplemented with the gale of winter wind and icy chill

 

 

 

Mortarion actively dispised Pyshic Powers, so wouldn't have had a place in the new order. Off the top of my head the following have never demonstrated any psychic powers:

 

Roboute

Vulkan

Ferrus Manus

Perturabo

Fulgrim (prior)

Night Haunter (visions were not from the warp, this has been established in the Soul Hunter Series)

Rogal Dorn

 

Vulkan - no Psychic powers???? And what do you call 'resurrection'? A physical one?

Perturabo - really? The one who see 'Maelstorm' staring at him every minute every day?

 

 

 

Diving somewhat off topic here, but in tMoM, its stated the Emperor wishes to sever mankind's reliance of the warp given they will become a entirely psychic race. To me, that clearly means non psyhic Primarchs like Mortarion and Russ would be one day discarded. Unless I've missed where they display psychic powers?

Mortarion always had a smallest spur of dread and grave feel over him. Especially for psychic intuitive classes.

Russ has a psychic powers - it was showed several times. Especially in the 'Wolf king' and 'TS' where his arrival was supplemented with the gale of winter wind and icy chill

Ehm...

The gale of winter and icy chill thing was a biproduct of his armor. It's stated in Retribution.

 

Let's quote Laurie again - HH books are lying and not to be trusted narrator. The gale was a part of Fenris. As mentioned in other book (geeze even Prospero Burns states that).

 

 

'My SUPREMELY cynical side wants part of the Emperor's plan to have always been that a war between the Legions was necessary in order to thin their numbers down after the Crusade was complete. Maybe he just didn't anticipate Chaos intervening and turning it into such a catastrophe? Or... maybe he did?' -

LaurieJGoulding it's too big of a lie if the 'Big and bad' Emperor haven't anticipate Chaos intervening. Just let's not pretend to believe in that lie and hypocrisy. 'Or.. maybe he did' - of course he did, without any shreds of doubt. Let be honest - the Emperor is not human, he does not think as a human, a concept of a tyrant does not apply to him - cause he is not human. He just an overspilled weapon AI mechanism that's working for the 'betterment' of mankind accordingly to his old program

[Kelborn]

HH cannot be trusted?

 

Hm...its still part of my pov / understanding of the canon. Therefore :P

[Mantras]

Vulkan is a perpetual - of all the other handful of perpetuals we have seen, only John Grammaticus and the Emperor are Psychics - so yes I stand by what I said in terms of Vulkan not having demonstrated in any of the lore as yet any form of psychic abilities. 

 

And Heritor - Laurie just said basically the point I was stabbing at, at least SOME of the Primarch's were never intended to be anything other than a vehicle towards the next stage of his plan.

[drooling blood]

Vulkan is a perpetual - of all the other handful of perpetuals we have seen, only John Grammaticus and the Emperor are Psychics - so yes I stand by what I said in terms of Vulkan not having demonstrated in any of the lore as yet any form of psychic abilities. 

 

And Heritor - Laurie just said basically the point I was stabbing at, at least SOME of the Primarch's were never intended to be anything other than a vehicle towards the next stage of his plan.

But he is another author, and only maybe to be believed.

He himself had a few fails, when he was Emperor of the library.

 

Nice how Perturabo got his own book. Magnus, nope, you get a bit part. :cusss.

Edited May 16, 2017 by drooling blood

[Kais Klip]

It genuinely made me feel for Perturabo, while at the same time illustrating that this is at least somewhat his fault. How much exactly is up for debate, but that’s just a result of him being such a well-written character with genuine depth to him. There’s a clear petulance to him, a certainty that he is right, and a stubborn refusal to consider other viewpoints.

Curious how you mention him being too stubborn to consider other viewpoints. Perturabo explicitly mentions that being able to entertain either side of the argument is the sign of an intelligent mind. Do you think that's hypocrisy then, or could we choose our words better when it comes to his... superiority complex?

[Tymell]

 

It genuinely made me feel for Perturabo, while at the same time illustrating that this is at least somewhat his fault. How much exactly is up for debate, but that’s just a result of him being such a well-written character with genuine depth to him. There’s a clear petulance to him, a certainty that he is right, and a stubborn refusal to consider other viewpoints.

Curious how you mention him being too stubborn to consider other viewpoints. Perturabo explicitly mentions that being able to entertain either side of the argument is the sign of an intelligent mind. Do you think that's hypocrisy then, or could we choose our words better when it comes to his... superiority complex?

I don't remember which bit that is specifically, but it could be a sign of his development, or just that saying and doing can be very different things.

 

And in a way of course, he is still considering other viewpoints...he's just not considering them for very long before dismissing them :p

Edited May 17, 2017 by Tymell

[HeritorA]

HH cannot be trusted?

 

Hm...its still part of my pov / understanding of the canon. Therefore

You do remember we asked about FW HH books - and a response we got was 'a narrator is not to be trusted'.

 

Vulkan is a perpetual - of all the other handful of perpetuals we have seen, only John Grammaticus and the Emperor are Psychics - so yes I stand by what I said in terms of Vulkan not having demonstrated in any of the lore as yet any form of psychic abilities. 

 

And Heritor - Laurie just said basically the point I was stabbing at, at least SOME of the Primarch's were never intended to be anything other than a vehicle towards the next stage of his plan.

Solid points on which we can agree.

[b1soul]

Surprised no one wants Swallow to do the Sanguinius book

[bluntblade]

Well, Fear to Tread hasn't got the best rep. What I've read of Swallow's work has been good, but it hasn't blown me away

[R_F_D]

Well, Fear to Tread hasn't got the best rep. What I've read of Swallow's work has been good, but it hasn't blown me away

 

Had the same reaction to Fear to Tread but that could be because when I first read it I had read HH non-stop sequentially and was a bit jaded.  Really enjoyed and was impressed with Garro although I know people disagree with that.

[DarkChaplain]

Fear to Tread was a real chore to get through. It started out well and then just felt bland, with the demons appearing like bickering fools and not at all menacing. A big disappointment for me.

[HeritorA]

Surprised no one wants Swallow to do the Sanguinius book

You know why - 'Fear to Thread' was mediocre at best.

 

Garro on the other hand was solid - it's later on they make him a 'believer' (cultist in all but word) and started TV show - called Garro Limited Editions with pointless stories for you

[b1soul]

I dislike Swallow's work...but apparently he has his fans

 

Crossing my fingers that Sang does to ADB

[HeritorA]

I dislike Swallow's work...but apparently he has his fans

 

Crossing my fingers that Sang does to ADB

Interesting what A D-B will think on 'that Sang does to ADB'  

In general - I will congratulate any author who will be writing him, and through my personal doubts - I do believe A D-B will try to create a truly beautiful story if he would be writing Sangy.

 

But as I see it - in my humble opinion the best author for the BA Primarch is (not stones please) Sanders or French. First has amazing first book of Archaon creation wit all the doubts and sorrow (which would be fantastic for the Sangy) - the second writes an intricate Lovecraftian dystopia and Horror, which will do some justice for Sangy too.

[drooling blood]

Fear to Tread was a real chore to get through. It started out well and then just felt bland, with the demons appearing like bickering fools and not at all menacing. A big disappointment for me.

 

Yup, Though the bit were Amit and co felt like some wolf blood was pretty cool.

[Withershadow]

I am thinking I might get this one. "Magnus" I am so-so with. "Lorgar" I am definitely passing by, solely on account of my zero-faith in Mr. Thorpe´s "talents" as a writer...

I share your misgivings.  I got Magnus because it's Magnus, and while not a bad read, the story didn't feel like it amounted to anything.  I wanted to get the Lorgar book because of my interest in the character, but then I saw the author... it's going to be maudlin I'm sure.

[HeritorA]

 

Fear to Tread was a real chore to get through. It started out well and then just felt bland, with the demons appearing like bickering fools and not at all menacing. A big disappointment for me.

 

Yup, Though the bit were Amit and co felt like some wolf blood was pretty cool.

 

Still even that 'great' moment does not help it to be a good book ;)

 

 

 

I am thinking I might get this one. "Magnus" I am so-so with. "Lorgar" I am definitely passing by, solely on account of my zero-faith in Mr. Thorpe´s "talents" as a writer...

I share your misgivings.  I got Magnus because it's Magnus, and while not a bad read, the story didn't feel like it amounted to anything.  I wanted to get the Lorgar book because of my interest in the character, but then I saw the author... it's going to be maudlin I'm sure.

 

Exactly. From the 4 released, in my humble opinion - the only one which is good are the 'Russ' from the Wraight, sadly.

[godking]

 

It genuinely made me feel for Perturabo, while at the same time illustrating that this is at least somewhat his fault. How much exactly is up for debate, but that’s just a result of him being such a well-written character with genuine depth to him. There’s a clear petulance to him, a certainty that he is right, and a stubborn refusal to consider other viewpoints.

Curious how you mention him being too stubborn to consider other viewpoints. Perturabo explicitly mentions that being able to entertain either side of the argument is the sign of an intelligent mind. Do you think that's hypocrisy then, or could we choose our words better when it comes to his... superiority complex?

 

Do as i say don't do as i do.

 

Bo is willing to listen to other viewpoints but has already decided beforehand that his view is the best one.

 

Only when he has absolutely no other choice will he accept that he might have been mistaken.