Primarch Book 4: Perturabo-Hammer of Olympia

[godking]

 

Amen to fewer battles and less bolter porn.

Just finished this book and set it on the shelf. Loved it. Well woven story with some really cool small insights. Loved the theory on the Hrud.

Mostly I'm coming away with an overwhelming dislike of Pert himself. A nasty vicious little jealous teenager! The first Primarch that I feel a legions soldiers would struggle to love. He's a big space git

 

He is, and always has been to some extent. A lot of the Primarchs are, though! I think this book really threaded the needle by making Perturabo feel sympathetic (not empathetic! important distinction). There are a lot of points in his life where you can see he easily could have been different. Or where him being a giant jerk wouldn't have mattered as much, because being a giant jerk is part of the whole "intergalactic warlord" job description.

 

This has been stewing in my head the last few days since I finished Perturabo, but I can't stop drawing direct comparisons to Ferrus Manus. What if Perturabo had been sent to a world that did not have an extensive civilization, and was totally cool with just producing soldiers (like Medusa, Baal, Barbarus, Cthonia... etc etc), would Perturabo ever have an opportunity to snap? Were he not brought up by someone like Dammekos either, telling him "yeah, you're special, you're so special, you're great!" he may have turned out quite differently.

 

Or maybe if Horus weren't the Warmaster, forcing Primarchs into his own camp by exploiting their flaws. In Perty's case, knowingly sending him against threats like the Hrud that are obviously not going to work out well with Perturabo's approach to war. I think Horus was doing that before he even knew he wanted to rebel against the Emperor, too. Just manipulating things his way out of pride and vanity. Very much in keeping with Horus's character (as I see him). That's a whole other topic, though.

 

But yeah, that's the tragedy of the Iron Warriors. It wasn't the perfidious influence of Chaos or anything that broke them. Just 160 years of thankless grinding and a perfect storm of cultural circumstances. It's at least a little heart-breaking to see the Perturabo from Magnus, where he seems confident and wise and the Great Crusade is a fresh thing to believe in for him, and to compare that to the Perturabo by the end of this novel.

 

Perturabo was a giant jerk because he chose to be a giant jerk.

 

Perturabo as his sister stated chose to isolate himself and chose to be a jerk.

 

He could easily have been another Roboute Guilliman had he chosen to be but he chose not to.

 

Dammekos did'nt screw Perturabo the emperor did'nt screw Perturabo Horus did'nt screw Perturabo and Dorn did'nt screw Perturabo.

 

PERTURABO SCREWED PERTURABO

[SpAcEGhOsT095]

He isn't Tony Robbins. With Perturabo, you are dealing with the most introverted of the primarchs. It can be straining, to say the least, for an introvert to be outgoing. Small talk can be an absolute chore. Trying to get Perturabo to change his personality and be someone he is not, nor could ever be, is asking for someone even more unhinged than Night Haunter. Some choices can't be made because there was never a choice to begin with. Life can be funny about those things.

[1ncarnadine]

Fair points. I can't really argue against the idea that a fair amount of why Perturabo ends up the way he is is due to his own choices, because I completely agree with that. But I also don't think we can fully deny the other forces at work here and say it's "just this." It's obviously not just "Perturabo screwed Perturabo." We can't deny the agency of Horus, we can't deny that there could be this potential genetic "manufactured" intent by the Emperor, we can't deny that the culture he was raised in contributed at least something to his mindset, etc etc. And from there we get to the fun "nature vs nurture" arguments that no one has really solved when it comes to humanity at large, let alone the characters we write. Maybe the best we can do is argue what the most significant factor was that contributed to this character ending up the way he does, and that may in fact be his own choices. I don't know; I actually have not personally invested the time to think about the text that deeply, and probably won't, but maybe someone else will.

 

I just want to say again that I'm so happy that Perturabo is actually this interesting and multi-faceted, and the discussion around it is awesome. Guy did such a great job with this book.

[godking]

He isn't Tony Robbins. With Perturabo, you are dealing with the most introverted of the primarchs. It can be straining, to say the least, for an introvert to be outgoing. Small talk can be an absolute chore. Trying to get Perturabo to change his personality and be someone he is not, nor could ever be, is asking for someone even more unhinged than Night Haunter. Some choices can't be made because there was never a choice to begin with. Life can be funny about those things.

He can't change who he is true .

 

But the point is that he never really made the effort to do so.

 

Dammekos and his foster family albeit for ther own reasons made the effort to try and relate to him and he shut them down and then complains that they are in the wrong.

 

His one sided ridiculous rivalry with Dorn is another example of his character flaws on full display.

 

The best that you can say in his defense that had he had that talk at the end with his foster sister earlier in his life thing might have gone differently. 

 

Of the traitor primarchs Angron is the only one who never had a choice each of the other ones could have made a differnt choice.

[SpAcEGhOsT095]

To quote Reynald de Chatillon "I am what I am. Someone has to be."

This is an interesting topic. Could Perturabo change? Maybe, but more likely not. When he landed on Olympia he climbed a cliff and through sheer willpower forced himself to the top. He is cold, distant, brilliant. Such people can have poor relationships with family. It seems he is incapable of wearing a "mask" to better get along with others. Plenty of people in real life are like that. Incapable of bending and when they break it can be dangerous depending on the circumstances.

The Emperor could have even built low self esteem into him. Looking at the self-esteem page on Wikipedia he seems to have a few of the characteristics. That could explain a lot about why he acts the way he does.

 

[DukeLeto69]

To quote Reynald de Chatillon "I am what I am. Someone has to be."

 

I LOVE the directors cut of Kingdom of Heaven - awesome film (amazingly seeing as the theatrical cut was pretty rubbish)

[HeritorA]

godking

Everyone of the 20 HAD a choice - 'Of the traitor primarchs Angron is the only one who never had a choice each of the other ones could have made a differnt choice.'

Angron path was a little bit different which led to a wrong twists and crossroads.

DukeLeto69

I LOVE the directors cut of Kingdom of Heaven - awesome film (amazingly seeing as the theatrical cut was pretty rubbish) - feel the same.

As for the Perturabo - you are giving him too much credit. Take a child - operate on it, install an adult brain of the 40-year old genius in him with all the knowledge - and check the result.

It will not be so far from what we have with Perty.

 

SpAcEGhOsT095

Perturabo could have and have all the tools/time to change. You all read Perty dialog with the Emperor on the mountain. Emperor never intended for Perty to be such and emo/rage fueled and calculating beast. But Perty saw the meeting the other way around under the always stressful Maelstorm watching him.

So - it is only his fault and his choices that make him into what he became.

[SpAcEGhOsT095]

Charlie Bronson

Britain's most violent inmate. He has had anger issues most of his life. He admits he had a normal childhood with good parents. But he can be very violent. Such a trait had to have been in him from birth. Some people are the way they are because they were born that way. And it is nearly impossible to change those things.

[Guest pandion40]

Of the traitor primarchs Angron is the only one who never had a choice each of the other ones could have made a differnt choice.

I agree with most of your points except the above. Angron easily had the rawest deal of any of the Primarchs. He's probably the only traitor Primarch I have sympathy for, but he did have choices. He didn't have any good ones but he could have made better choices than he did. For one he didn't have to drag his Legion down the toilet with him, I know most most had the Butcher's Nails implanted willingly but Angron was in charge he could have and should have forbidden it.

 

Also he seems to have valued freedom a lot yet he embraced the most profound form of slavery ever when he became a daemon prince. Though I can forgive him his bad choices because of how twisted and broken the nails made him he did have choices, he could have saved his legion even if he was doomed to death or daemonhood

[SpAcEGhOsT095]

Angron really didn't have a choice about becoming a daemon primarch. Lorgar cast his voodoo magic on him because he wanted to save his life, whether it was out of love or it was necessary for him to live for the plans of the chaos gods, or a little of both. He was busy trying to chop the Battle-King into wet meaty chunks and didn't have a say in the matter. He seemed to enjoy it when it was finally completed, apart from being kept in chains so as not to kill everything aboard his ship.

[HeritorA]

Charlie Bronson

Britain's most violent inmate. He has had anger issues most of his life. He admits he had a normal childhood with good parents. But he can be very violent. Such a trait had to have been in him from birth. Some people are the way they are because they were born that way. And it is nearly impossible to change those things.

I don't know that guy - but each culture and nation has it's own Charlie Bronson.

People can't be born one way or another - people can be influenced to behave the likes of that dude or in our case Perty or Angron

[veterannoob]

waiting to finish before reading but on ch 13 now and just absolutely loving it! The Primarchs series really picked up speed after book 1.

[veterannoob]

Finished. Was SO GOOOOOD! 

[DarKnight]

Got it on Friday and am reading through, like it so far. Quick aside, didn't he name himself Perturabo after being adopted by Dammekos and finding the name in one of books in his library?

[Dagoth Ur]

Got it on Friday and am reading through, like it so far. Quick aside, didn't he name himself Perturabo after being adopted by Dammekos and finding the name in one of books in his library?

I'll have a quick reread when I get home but I distinctly remember him just "knowing" that his name is perturabo and that it is a distinctly un-Olympian name as explained in the comming of age ritual he goes through. I could be wrong on both accounts though.

[veterannoob]

Any questions for Guy re: Dark Imperium or Perturabo? For this weekend.

[Bulwyf]

I just got the ebook this past week and about half way through the book.

 

For those slamming Perturabo for his behavior, have any of you considered he is simply autistic? My only brother has Asberger's  a form of autism and reading the book it reminds me of  him so much. My brother is extremely intelligent and rarely speaks or interacts with others and when forced to do so he comes across as extremely rude and aloof. He has no "choice" in that.

 

I don't know if the Big E intended to "gift" one of his primarchs with a form of autism but Perturabo almost completely checks off the marks on Asberger's.

 

Saying he could choose to be different is simply not fair. He was brought up in as close to a "loving" situation as any primarch could ask for and yet from the very start, at a very young age, he was anti social, withdrawn, brilliant and showing little to no patience with other people.

[Mellow]

I've finished this one.

 

I quite liked it. Probably one of the best of the Primarch series so far.

 

It's pretty clear that the Emperor had a specific role in mind for him when he says

 

i have many tasks for you, the indefatigable, the indomitable, the unrelenting

 

Clearly there's a brief moment when he wants to know if he's traitor or not due to the Custodians tensing. I wonder if his powers of foresight gave them the heads up about that possibility or if He was always that cautious with His "sons"

[Mellow]

Randomly though. It's no wonder Perturabo is so grumpy when the HH happens.

 

Doesn't Fulgrim essentially try to steal his life force. Which is just another example of his brothers using him.

[Bulwyf]

Randomly though. It's no wonder Perturabo is so grumpy when the HH happens.

 

Doesn't Fulgrim essentially try to steal his life force. Which is just another example of his brothers using him.

 

yes, Fulgrim tried to outright kill him to ascend into demon prince hood.

[Roomsky]

Perturabo: Hammer of Olympia

 

I'm having a difficult time choosing between this one and Magnus for my favorite thus far in the series. Master of Prospero was a really entertaining read all throughout, that dopesn't really aspire to be anything fresh or groundbreaking, but is just a good bit of fun that plays of Graham's strengths as a writer. Very consistent that one. As for Perturabo, well...

 

(Warning, this review is front-loaded with grievances, the good bits come later.)

 

The Hrud

 

Honestly, this book worried me when I was reading through these parts. To be honest, they seemed phoned in, like Haley was expecting the premise alone to be enough to hold my interest. It kind of worked, I guess. Knowing nothing of the Hrud, it was neat to see a great-crusade era foe that wasn't a superficial challenge to the astartes, and seeing them all but win later on was actually rather surprising. 

 

That's about where the interesting points end, though. Haley's prose should be better than this, it has been better than this. Events trudge along at a monotonous pace, occupied by no one especially interesting beyond Perturabo himself, who features lightly until later. Dantioch seems to coast on brand recognition alone, if his name wasn;t Dantioch I probably wouldn;t have remembered him any better than that one young Iron Warrior who acts as an occasional POV character. Haley also pulls a Vengeful Spirit and bends over backwards to leave Dantioch in the state we are more familiar with him in, which just comes across as forced when you've read the other stories he features in first.

 

These sections are not helped by being interspersed between the flashback sections, which were all far more interesting. Speaking of which:

 

The Flashbacks

 

Now this is what I'm talking about. Beyond one (admittedly very glaring) issue, these were quite good. Olympia's society is quite fleshed out considering these segments' short lengths, and the characters surrounding Perty were all likeable anough, though perhaps that's just a side effect of standing around the giant, perpetually irritated guy. 

 

It really is great seeing why Pert is so frustrated all the time, the great look into how he approaches the world makes it understandable that he's so irate: he's proven his mastery about six-million times already, but still he has to put up with people saying "but will it work?"

 

The issues with this section come from the religious debate early on. As I often point out that BL writers aren't strategists, they generally also aren't theologians. While the argument itself wasn't as embarassing as Mcneill's attempt at it in The Last Church, it's rather marred by Perturabo literally using Plato's shadows on the cave wall analogy. I honestly couldn't believe what I was reading. Are we to believe that Perturabo invented this thought excersize? He doesn't say "consider this analogy I found in one of your "heretical" texts," he speaks of it as if he concocted it himself. I can scarcely believe this was even allowed in here, it would be like Horus reciting Lincoln's "four score and 65 years in the past seven years ago" speech.

 

The Ending

 

I had a bit of a lingering bad taste in my mouth after that previous debacle, but with the much better written ships-escaping-the-blast wave scene, I became more cautiously optimistic. Moreso when Perturabo emerges from his seclusion with a plan ready to go rather than violent and mopey, adding the last bit of depth to the equation before the big moment drops.

 

And then the message arrives.

 

http://i1.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/800/487/60d.gif

Translator's note: "game" means book

 

Holy :cuss, did this turn on a dime. All his self-righeousness, all his hard work convincing himself that he was beyond any reproach all comes tumbling down. This is the bloody Catcher in the Rye of warhammer books, all the issues leading up to the ending were entirely necessary for the ending to mean as much as it did. I have never been so sad reading a Black Library book, the last scene where he enters the palace is bloody heartbreaking. Even the previously uninteresting Iron Warriors get a really poinient scene about the choice between a small act of redemption and jumping off the slippery slope.

 

And then he follows it up with that epilogue. Damn you Haley, it's too good!

 

Also, bonus points for how Haley described Perturabo's slack-jawed expression on receiving the news, I could picture it perfectly

 

Hey! Get out of here, you.

 

This brings us back to my dilemma: the consistently good book or the uneven book with great moments? Honestly, this review hasn't really helped, but it might just be Perturabo. This one had something to say, in and out of universe.

 

TL:DR- read this book even if it frustrates you

[DarkChaplain]

Finally managed to review this one today. Easily the best one of the first 4 Primarch novels and the definitive Perturabo book. Just deliciously dramatic. Haley really understood how Perturabo ticks.

[HeritorA]

Finally managed to review this one today. Easily the best one of the first 4 Primarch novels and the definitive Perturabo book. Just deliciously dramatic. Haley really understood how Perturabo ticks.

 

Partly understood in my humble opinion. He is too 'focused' and partially already insane in all his logical glory in Haley view. Still like Wraight's more. Prose and style are better.

[Heliomanes]

I don't know what to say about this one. I found everything interesting. Olympian culture, the Hrud, the tale of rising into being and falling from the peaks. Everything except the primarch himself. He just seems incapable from the very start. Good at calculating things and making blueprints. Good in a 1 on 1 fight, a good athlete and so on - but a terrible leader. He's prone to irrational decision making due to anger, and does this dozens of times in the novel. Every time he shows up he does something that just seems terribly incompetent. I just wish he was written with more subtlety. Make his flaws less apparent and it will have much more impact when they ultimately undo him. This was just like watching a traffic accident happen in slow motion. His trajectory seems obvious from the very beginning, and I'm having a hard time suspending my disbelief.

[Kelborn]

ehm...Wraight did something about Perturabo? When did that happen and where can I find it?