New to 30k - WB - Shattered Sun RoW - 2.5k

[BloodTzar]

Hello guys,

 

after asking zillion questions, I came up with one the ways I might run the WB 30k Army, please feel free to advice

 

Its Shattered Sun RoW;

 

HQ:

Zardu Layak + Slave blades

Erebus

 

ELITES:

3xQuad Mortar guns - Shatter Shells

 

TROOP:

5xGal Vorbak - AA,PF, MB~ Drop pod dedicated transport

5xGal Vorbak - AA,PF ~ Drop pod dedicated transport

10xTacticals - AA,PF ~ Drop pod dedicated transport

10xTacticals - AA,PF, Vexilla ~ Drop pod dedicated transport

FAST:

1xDreadClaw DP - All HQ goes here

HEAVY:

1xLeviathan Dread - AC,Phospex,Cyclic Melta, ~ DreadDrop pod dedicated transport

1xLeviathan Dread - AC,Phospex,Siege Drill ~ DreadDrop pod dedicated transport

 

The idea behind is to have dreads and psykers down T1, while starting slow, Zardu goes for the herald summoning and deamon+1invul. There is a Nurgle herald, that can get -1LD for whole board artefact into the free war gear he gets from the power. This can be insane in conjunction with Erebus who goes for telepathy (psy shriek etc.) and the 12" aura 

 

Yet I am 100 points short to 2.5k not sure what to add to make it more competent. Any ideas?

I was thinking either some scource of FNP for the HQ squad -OR- another telepathy trough the burning lore -OR- master of signal to go with rapiers

 

Thank you in advance for ideas!

~BT

Edited April 21, 2017 by BloodTzar

[Angmarred]

I dont know much about word Bearers but you have 2 scoring units at 2500.

[Caillum]

Firstly, good job taking an odd number of Drop Pods. :) However, your points are off. I make the list 2515 as you have it. Make sure you are using the 2 latest Red Books.

 

https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-AU/The-Horus-heresy-legiones-Astartes-Age-of-Darkness-Army-List

 

https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-AU/The-Horus-Heresy-Legiones-Astartes-Age-of-Darkness-Legions

 

Now, if you're running "Last of the Serrated Sun", there's no reason to take ordinary Tactical Squads. You have the 2 Gal Vorbak units for your Compulsory Troops, so all you need is some units with Implacable Advance (ie, Veterans, Seekers, Terminators). Turning the Tacs into Vets costs you 70 points, but is totally worth it. Like Angmarred said, that's only 2 scoring units, but that's pretty much a given with this Rite of War.

 

Don't bother with melta bombs on the first Dark Martyr. S10 power fist will do fine for anti-tank.

 

Focus the Leviathans. Siege drill & melta lance on one (anti-tank) and grav-flux & siege claw on the other (anti-TEQ). Phosphex & AC on both of course.

 

Of course, this all requires sacrifice (pun intended). Are you committed to Erebus? A basic Centurion will fulfil "Charismatic Leadership", and allow most of the changes I suggested.

[BloodTzar]

Hello,

 

First of all, thank you for feed back!

 

Second, well i do have all books mentioned, therefore I believe it has to be some mathematical error on my part

 

HQ: 470

ELITES:210

TROOPS:860

FAST:100

HEAVY:760

 

That sums at 2400 please help me find the mistake, since i cant just find it :)

 

Third, the idea behind Erebus is to give the lowest LD de-buff, while psy-shrieking infantry,while Zardu is there to summon daemons and heralds (Nurgle herald, that can use -1LD board wide de-buff artefact) 

 

Personally, being inexperienced in 30k environment, I might not be know what to expect at 2.5k range. While coming from 40k infantry heavy environment, structured the list with that in mind.  However I know spartans are the thing, that was the reason for the the melta on LEVIEs to go on a side AV14s.

 

Lastly, I think I am not sold on this list, I should go back to a drawing table and do more thinking :)

~BT

[Spiritual Liege]

Spartans are a thing indeed, but they usually got ceramite so melta won't cut it. 3 S9 shots might however, go ahead and try.

[Caillum]

 

Second, well i do have all books mentioned, therefore I believe it has to be some mathematical error on my part

 

HQ: 470

ELITES:210

TROOPS:860

FAST:100

HEAVY:760

 

That sums at 2400 please help me find the mistake, since i cant just find it

 

Dreadclaws are 115, Dreadpods are 100, and your Troops add up to 925, so I recommend re-checking.  If you have an iPhone, maybe grab Quartermaster!  I write the templates for it. :)

 

Yeah, I realised the combo you were going for. Might be best to go for just one Leviathan - they chew up points.

[BloodTzar]

Thank you Caillum, did bought the app, its great!!!

 

Have done a bit of re-thinking;

 

HQ:

Zardu Layak + Slave blades ~ Drop pod dedicated transport

Preator -ParagonB,Digital,Halo,Burning lore, tartaros

Medicae - nothing 

 

ELITES:

2xQuad Mortar guns - Shatter Shells

2xQuad Mortar guns - Shatter Shells

 

TROOP:

5xGal Vorbak - AA,PF, Melta~ Drop pod dedicated transport

5xGal Vorbak - AA,PF, Melta ~ Drop pod dedicated transport

10xTacticals - AA,PF, nuncio-vox~ Drop pod dedicated transport

10xTacticals - AA,PF, Vexilla ~ Drop pod dedicated transport

 

HEAVY:

Sicaran Venator - lascannons

Sicaran Venator - lascannons

Whirlwind Scorpius

 

What do you think guys?

Edited April 22, 2017 by BloodTzar

[Caillum]

Ok, a few issues with your newest list:

- no "Charismatic Leadership" HQ. Need a Chaplain/Centurion (not any other Consul). Maybe swap the Praetor for one?

- Sicaran Venator main gun is Ordnance, so the lascannon sponsons are firing Snap Shots. For 40 points. Probably don't want two Venators either, as they only do anti-Tank duties.

- Zardu and his Blade-slaves cannot take a Dedicated Transport, so you'll need a Dreadclaw from Fast Attack.

- Primus Medicae needs gear.

- I still think you should drop the Tactical Squads and take Veterans (or Tactical Support Squads).

 

Here's a list I threw together for you. Has 5 Mastery Levels for some Daemon summoning, plus a good balance of units.

 

HQ

High Chaplain Erebus: Rite of War (Last of the Serrated Sun) xxx

Zardu Layak, The Crimson Apostle xxx

• 2 Anakatis Kul Blade-slaves xxx

Librarian: Mastery Level 2; artificer armour 125

 

TROOPS

5 Gal Vorbak Dark Brethren: Dark Martyr (artificer armour; power fist); 4 Gal Vorbak Dark Brethren; power maul 235

• Drop Pod xx

5 Gal Vorbak Dark Brethren: Dark Martyr (artificer armour; power fist); 4 Gal Vorbak Dark Brethren; power maul 235

• Drop Pod xx

 

ELITES

10 Veteran Space Marines: Veteran Sergeant (artificer armour; power fist); Marksmen; 9 Veteran Space Marines 185

• Drop Pod xx

10 Veteran Space Marines: Veteran Sergeant (artificer armour; power fist); Marksmen; 9 Veteran Space Marines 185

• Drop Pod xx

2 Quad Launcher Rapier Carriers: quad launcher (shatter shells) 140

2 Quad Launcher Rapier Carriers: quad launcher (shatter shells) 140

 

FAST ATTACK

Anvillus Pattern Dreadclaw Drop Pod xxx/i]

 

HEAVY SUPPORT

Whirlwind Scorpius xxx

Sicaran Venator Tank Destroyer: dozer blade 195

Deredeo Pattern Dreadnought: carapace-mounted Aiolos missile launcher 220

 

2,500 points

Edited April 23, 2017 by Caillum

[Argel Tal]

Main issue I have with the Serrated Sun is that at this format you feel a bit tight on scoring units. Only 2 10 guys in 3+ armor can be quite easy to deal with. Apart from that it looks solid and you can compensate this issue with some summoning. 

[NoLifeKing]

Rapiers are the drag factor in the list imo. The blast templates are a risky thing if you intend to deep to your enemy, which is mostly the reason you take the rite at all, and if you use them for antitank purposes, one has to wonder, why did you bring the sicarans? I would remove the rapiers to bring more scoring units and replace the sicarans with laser vindicators if you must insist on having tanks, they do what sicarans do for less points. 

 

Main issue I have with the Serrated Sun is that at this format you feel a bit tight on scoring units. Only 2 10 guys in 3+ armor can be quite easy to deal with. Apart from that it looks solid and you can compensate this issue with some summoning. 

Summoning doesn't provide us with any additional scoring units, because they are not considered as "troops" because they don't get listed with a battlefield role as they would when taken into the armylist for example in an allied detachment.

[Argel Tal]

Ah my bad, I thought summoned stuff was scoring as well depending on what kind of unit you bring (troops for instance). 

 

For the Venator, I still think it can be quite effective to negate the shot of some super heavies at this format like knights or glaives and you can still scatter a little less thanks to the nuncio-vox for the rapier. Plus the Venator is a bit more mobile being a fast tank. las vindi are just pure standard vehicle killers, I guess it depends you playstyle and you terrains. 

[BloodTzar]

Well guys, thank you very much for the feed back!!!

 

First of all, you are right on point Caillum, I totally forgot about the Ordanance rule...I should strip the tanks of the Las-Cans since its not worth the points, instead use them on Chaplain. I thought Zardu is both Chaplain and Diabolist. My bad 

 

Second, I am still bit mistaken with Zardu and Slaves being Command Squad, that is the reason for the drop pod. In this case; I think I will drop slaves in favour of command squad to get access to cheap pod. 

 

Lastly, I don't know 30k much, what is the point range where priamarch start appearing thought its 2.5k+ (besides the Primarchs Chosen). Moreover the idea behind noncio is to eliminate the scatters. 

 

~BT

[NoLifeKing]

Well guys, thank you very much for the feed back!!!

 

First of all, you are right on point Caillum, I totally forgot about the Ordanance rule...I should strip the tanks of the Las-Cans since its not worth the points, instead use them on Chaplain. I thought Zardu is both Chaplain and Diabolist. My bad 

 

Second, I am still bit mistaken with Zardu and Slaves being Command Squad, that is the reason for the drop pod. In this case; I think I will drop slaves in favour of command squad to get access to cheap pod. 

 

Lastly, I don't know 30k much, what is the point range where priamarch start appearing thought its 2.5k+ (besides the Primarchs Chosen). Moreover the idea behind noncio is to eliminate the scatters. 

 

In my meta, Primarchs are seen at any point lvl from 2k and above.

[Jimm]

You have no good challenge char which could be a problem for Layak, if you meet a praetor with that hq pod your loose badly.

 

One of the best things about serrated sun lists imo is vets in pods, they can be expensive but what's not to like about rending flamers or melta/plasma straight into your enemy's lines. Oh and they score

Edited April 24, 2017 by Jimm

[Argel Tal]

For sure Zardu is not a very good mele guy. He is more of a buff unit with some summoning abilities and don't forget his heavy flamer banner. Can be fun to use. But yes, if you don't field him with the blade slaves don't attach him to a mele unit. Although the slaves can be quite devastating with some character in a pod like Lorgar + biomancy centurion + maybe a primus medicae in a dreadclaw coming on the front line T2 and charge straight to the enemy (btw you should know that the dreadclaw is way more complex than just a simple drop po)

 

Quote from a little tactica i wrote some time ago (and consider they are only 60 pts m

"-if you have an assault unit inside it you should remain inside the dreadcalw on the turn you land to use the pod as a shield (don't forget to jink all the time) for the guys inside and then on the next turn you get as close as possible and unload all you beauties to assault.

 

-as you can move on the turn you land, you have two main options to deploy the dread claw: go full offensive and ignore the eventual intercept by burning all the guys near you before they get the chance to shoot at you or deploy you dreadcalw a bit far away from the potential enemy threat and use the flat out move to get closer during the shooting phase."

 

If you can't use Zardu in a mele unit, you can fit him in a support squad or a seeker squad to give some bodies to defend him from shooting while he buffs your GV squads and tries some summoning shenanigans. 

 

A praetor unit with a command squad can also be terrific in a dreadclaw and I totally agree, sniper vets in drop pods just rocks while you don't pay any tac tax in troops by taking GV as mandatory slots. You can also fit some troop slots with support squad if you feel that you need more drop pods to reach an odd number and lack some dedicated firepower. 

 

Concerning the vox, you can't use them on the turn you land to avoid pods scatter as the unit comes from reserve at a different sub phase, before you can deploy. Though you can still use them for the next turns if your vox carrier is still hanging around. 

[BloodTzar]

Thank you very much for all the feedback!!!

 

The list is solid but I do not feel like it can go against all the nasty dual Leviathan/10+ termies, therefore I might either go for something super fluffy and have fun while building it or go for something competitive (that I have no idea what is in 30k)

 

 

On the other hand, I somehow like the base of the list, moreover I am keen on the dreadclaws (kinda hated the model...moreover I would like to get the big one but its 260pts...for insta-dead unit...its way too much) 

 

~BT

[Argel Tal]

I hope for your, your meta is not full of double levi and spartan land, would a bit boring. Plus, it just means that you will really struggle to get those KP but the strength of the Serrated Sun is to bring drop podded unit with a good gunline. Even if you probably won't table your opponent, you can win if you deploy you stuff to win the objective.

 

Kharybdis is a good transport, consider it as a flying spartan ^^ just play it the same way you do with the dreadclaw: stay inside on T1 and maybe use the flat out move to remain out of trouble and then on the next turn go for assault ! Don't get why you say it's "insta dead" unit.  

[BloodTzar]

Good points :)!

 

I like the Kharybdis model a lot, I just thing that "howering flyer" close to the front lines a.k.a charge range is almost certainly dead with av12 with the amount of melta/PF that is in HH games. On the other hand, what would you suggest to get in? I am still thinking of using my "left-over" Caestus, however the wording is weird, for GV units :/

 

Honestly, In my meta 30k varies, from fluffy armies, to strong combo related (IH, IF); so I have seen leviathans as a good answer to that. 

 

Last thing I have to get used to 30k is everything is expensive, the points add up so fast, seems like there are little to no "filler" units, or its just me not being able to see them that way.

[Argel Tal]

I don't think it's that weak (5 hp makes it quite resilient). You are quite mobile with it and even if it gets killed you'll have the possibility to charge on the next turn.

 

And it has the main advantage to bring a deathstar style unit right in the face of your opponent on t2 (don't put tac marines inside it i think, it's better used for elite units with primarch/praetor and sole buffing stuff)

 

And yes 30k is expensive, that's why you start at 2.5k compare to the classic 1.85k of 40k

[Fangbanger]

kharybdis is great. It can jink too, but very rarely lasts past turn 1. By then though, it's job is done

[BloodTzar]

Well I have ordered one, I wonder how good it will do, I hate buying assembling one turn models :D 

 

So basically I will try to go for one Kharybids and 2 Dreadclaws other regular pods. Ill stick GV into DC's and I have to think what to pack into big one.

[Argel Tal]

Don't think too much ^^ : big death star squad of GV with Lorgar and you others HQs to buff them. But 2.5K is too short for this, you'll need to play at 3500 I think. At 2500 just stick with dreadclaws.

Edited April 30, 2017 by Argel Tal

[BloodTzar]

Hello guys,

 

I know it has been while, but I still would like to get some ideas how to form a solid 2.5k-3k SS RoW list as it seems to be the strongest WB can pull out.

 

So far I run something similar what Caillum has advices, however I sticked to the Venators (since I have the models).

Any idea how to expand? Or list ideas?

Thank you in advance

~BT

[Argel Tal]

To expand the list it's quite easy but it rally depends what size of army you want to have and what kind of gameplay you want to focus on:

 

- if you want to be more aggressive, get more gal vorbak squads and even consider a kharybdis 

 

- you really lack scoring guys so you can go for seekers (they are awesome with combi plasmas for the turn they land and then use ap 2 shells with bs 2+ they ca do serious damage), more vets, some support squad depending on what you want to kill but considering the double venators, i'd say go for plasma or volkite chargers to get more solution against mass TEQ or MEQ

 

-swap some heavy support for a leviathan

 

- focus on psychic another HQ 

 

- get a LOW: easy pick is Lorgar who is a really good buffer and always usefull (I have tried him with a plasma squad and apo, put him at teh front line and precog/prescience/overwatch at full BS and you have an awesome squad but very expensive), lots of super heavies are also very good like glaive, fellblade, warhound, typhon, stormblade ( the one that ignores cover) 

 

So you have a lot of possibilities to play with, just pick the one you want according to the game experience you have and the model you like :)