Imperium Secundus novels

[R_F_D]

 

 

'Know No Fear', 'Fear to Tread', 'Mark of Calth', 'Betrayer' and 'Vulkan Lives' are all prelude to the Imperium Secundus arc a-proper, also several audio dramas and short stories.

 

Really? Well - in that case let's call Horus Heresy a prelude to W40K.

 

 

Isn't that exactly what the HH is?

[HeritorA]

'Know No Fear', 'Fear to Tread', 'Mark of Calth', 'Betrayer' and 'Vulkan Lives' are all prelude to the Imperium Secundus arc a-proper, also several audio dramas and short stories.

Really? Well - in that case let's call Horus Heresy a prelude to W40K.

Isn't that exactly what the HH is?

You're not helping But it's good you see sarcasm as a healthy opinion.

Know no Fear and Fear to Tread are simply what later would be a reason to create IS.

And Laurie as a proffesional forum troll has started who was first 'chicken or egg' discussion.

[DarkChaplain]

Fear to Tread directly sets up Imperium Secundus. The final section specifically has Sanguinius's arrival as we see it in Unremembered Empire. There was nothing "later" about it. Feat to Tread and The Crimson Fist, as well as The Iron Within I would assume, were written (or at least ended) with Imperium Secundus on the table. We didn't get to see it for years yet, but that doesn't mean that the project wasn't well underway for a long time already.

[HeritorA]

Fear to Tread directly sets up Imperium Secundus. The final section specifically has Sanguinius's arrival as we see it in Unremembered Empire. There was nothing "later" about it. Feat to Tread and The Crimson Fist, as well as The Iron Within I would assume, were written (or at least ended) with Imperium Secundus on the table. We didn't get to see it for years yet, but that doesn't mean that the project wasn't well underway for a long time already.

sadly - cause as we discussed in other threads and will not repeat here Imperium Secundus is BORING

[LaurieJGoulding]

Umm, someone stop the clock... Andrey finally figured out what the HH is...

 

Okay, who had '11 years, 9 months' in the sweepstakes?

[HeritorA]

Umm, someone stop the clock... Andrey finally figured out what the HH is...

 

Okay, who had '11 years, 9 months' in the sweepstakes?

It doesn't make it less truthful. BL since the HH start in 2006 made a lot of solid and strategic decisions but some of them  truly ruined  the steps and performance of the serie throughout the years.

Some of them - especially focus on LE and novellas (which you by the way mentioned Laurie) almost reaped off a new hole in it.

Especially the torture of years 2013-2015.

 

So, Laurie 11 years 9 months of mediocre stories for sure.

But it was an awesome trip for 7 years in the period of 2006-2011 and 2016.

And it's a crappy trip again with 2017. Crimson King in June doesn't help.

 

And boring and absolutely pointless IS part only worsened the heavy years of 2013-2015.

 

Truth hurts - but that's truth. And at the same that's critic of several human beings who actually read everything. And not the ones who will 'auto-like' anything with Horus Heresy title on the cover. For that you have Dylan and Mark and a lot of other  fans Laurie.

[Mantras]

 

Fear to Tread directly sets up Imperium Secundus. The final section specifically has Sanguinius's arrival as we see it in Unremembered Empire. There was nothing "later" about it. Feat to Tread and The Crimson Fist, as well as The Iron Within I would assume, were written (or at least ended) with Imperium Secundus on the table. We didn't get to see it for years yet, but that doesn't mean that the project wasn't well underway for a long time already.

sadly - cause as we discussed in other threads and will not repeat here Imperium Secundus is BORING*

 

 

*in your humble opinion.

 

The one weakness for me of IS is the assumption the Emperor is dead - it's kind of a stretch to believe that - for example, the Dark Angel's were also cut off from Terra but didn't assume he was dead until they landed in Macragge. 

[Mantras]

 

Umm, someone stop the clock... Andrey finally figured out what the HH is...

 

Okay, who had '11 years, 9 months' in the sweepstakes?

It doesn't make it less truthful. BL since the HH start in 2006 made a lot of solid and strategic decisions but some of them  truly ruined  the steps and performance of the serie throughout the years.

Some of them - especially focus on LE and novellas (which you by the way mentioned Laurie) almost reaped off a new hole in it.

Especially the torture of years 2013-2015.

 

So, Laurie 11 years 9 months of mediocre stories for sure.

But it was an awesome trip for 7 years in the period of 2006-2011 and 2016.

And it's a crappy trip again with 2017. Crimson King in June doesn't help.

 

And boring and absolutely pointless IS part only worsened the heavy years of 2013-2015.

 

Truth hurts - but that's truth. And at the same that's critic of several human beings who actually read everything. And not the ones who will 'auto-like' anything with Horus Heresy title on the cover. For that you have Dylan and Mark and a lot of other  fans Laurie.

 

 

I would argue that if you find them so mediocre that perhaps you should stop purchasing them and maybe find a new passion or hobby to invest your time in? I think some HH stories are better than others, some arc's more compelling than others, but given the sheer volume of output there will always be some variance in quality. Compare to the GoT books for example - better in quality but take forever to write as written by one person.

 

Truth is subjective also, the HH books has been a commercial and cultural success for GW and that is objectively the truth. 

[Indefragable]

I scratch my head with the whole Imperium Secundus thing as well. It's not exactly my favorite story arc, but at this point the ship has sailed (INTO THE RUINSTORM!!! j/k) so we just have to hope that it all comes together and makes sense. Operation Market Garden did not mean the Allies lost WWII, after all.

 

As ADB loves to say, only when we have the whole picture (aka HH novel series is complete) will be really be able to critique it all....until then it's still judging things that are incomplete.

 

And let's back off the aggressive tones, everyone.

 

We get that you don't like Imperium Secundus, HeritorA, but how about stepping back for a bit to let those that want to discuss it have some space to do so?

[DarkChaplain]

I still want to finish writing out my thoughts on Imperium Secundus. Been putting it off for months and will probably not get around to it until after Ruinstorm finally puts the lid on it and I have the full picture.

 

I have massive gripes with IS as it was published. A lot if not most of that comes down to how The Unremembered Empire was presented (too much action, too little politicking, Sanguinius and the cover scene being wrapped up on the last pages, Vulkan's role etc), but the way it was stretched out in publishing terms probably did the arc more harm than any of the books.

 

The big gap between new releases, especially those relating to IS, really sucked the life out of it until Angels of Caliban.

[Kelborn]

*ignoring the clash of certain fraters*

 

@DarkChaplain: If the gap between the releases sucked the life out of it, I'm glad to read them in a row. ^^

 

Planned reading list:

 

Finish UE

Betrayer

Know No Fear

(maybe UE again to see if I missed something the first time?)

Pharos

Angels of Caliban

 

Hopefully AoC will be released in Germany until then. :)

[LaurieJGoulding]

I'm beginning to think I should have killed HeritorA in 'Daedalus' after all...

[Kelborn]

Though I can understand your mood, this is not the right place for it.

He is in fact like he is. Either one can live with it or not.

 

Don't forget:

 

 

And now, back to topic! :D

[Beauceron]

 

 

Umm, someone stop the clock... Andrey finally figured out what the HH is...

 

Okay, who had '11 years, 9 months' in the sweepstakes?

It doesn't make it less truthful. BL since the HH start in 2006 made a lot of solid and strategic decisions but some of them truly ruined the steps and performance of the serie throughout the years.

Some of them - especially focus on LE and novellas (which you by the way mentioned Laurie) almost reaped off a new hole in it.

Especially the torture of years 2013-2015.

 

So, Laurie 11 years 9 months of mediocre stories for sure.

But it was an awesome trip for 7 years in the period of 2006-2011 and 2016.

And it's a crappy trip again with 2017. Crimson King in June doesn't help.

 

And boring and absolutely pointless IS part only worsened the heavy years of 2013-2015.

 

Truth hurts - but that's truth. And at the same that's critic of several human beings who actually read everything. And not the ones who will 'auto-like' anything with Horus Heresy title on the cover. For that you have Dylan and Mark and a lot of other fans Laurie.

Heritor, I really don't understand why you continue to express personal opinion as empirical fact. Whilst I respect your opinions, it's as valid as anybody else's, I do think it's difficult to use certainty in language to express an interpretation of a book which must ultimately be subjective.

 

Secondly, having individuals heavily involved in this project willing to engage with the community via forums and other means is a rarity compared to other hobbies and interests.

 

I'd recommend treating them with a bit more respect when they take the time to clarify confusion or answer questions.

[HeritorA]

I'm beginning to think I should have killed HeritorA in 'Daedalus' after all...

You probably should

But anyway - we still love HH even through it's struggling sometimes.

And mister Kelborn you are absolutely right sir!

[DukeLeto69]

Ok have to confess I am very behind on the HH books as only buy in MMPB so my opinion is not yet fully formed as need to read Pharos onwards.

 

IMHO... The IS arc was actually an interesting concept and idea for explaining why some of the Legions were not present at Terra. I like the idea that the Ruinstorm actually cut them off from both space/warp travel and also astropathicus communication. All well and good.

 

What has undermined it for me is actually two things primarily (but could be a misunderstanding on my part):

 

1. I would have liked/expected the Ruinstorm to be totally impenetrable but look what happened in Deathfire!

2. The Knights Errant arc sees one of them come to Calth post the Battle of Calth and raising of the Ruinstorm. How exactly?

 

The other things that have spoiled it for me are more to do with execution. Most of us agree (I think) that Unremembered Empire marks a low point in Dan Abnetts mostly awesome writing. It is just too, well, too much like one of his superhero DC/Marvel comic books. As a set up it doesn't work. It seems too contrived (to me) just how many of the big players actually end up present in IC. Personally I wish there were fewer of them. It felt, contrived and forced. A little "oh wouldn't it be cool if..." Rather than a potentially very political and important story arc.

 

Going way off beam here into fan fic territory but again personally I wish that at the time of the HH there were no astropaths. I wish communication relied on Heralds or Couriers so that news and orders could only travel as fast as warp capable space craft. That would explain away very easily the misinformation and ability of Horus etc to ravage the galaxy as nobody would know where they were. Same goes for the White Scars etc etc. I wish that it was only with the Emperor entering the Golden Throne that astrotelepathy became possible meaning the Emperor's sacrifice actually enabled better communication across the Imperium.

[HeritorA]

'The other things that have spoiled it for me are more to do with execution. Most of us agree (I think) that Unremembered Empire marks a low point in Dan Abnetts mostly awesome writing. It is just too, well, too much like one of his superhero DC/Marvel comic books. As a set up it doesn't work. It seems too contrived (to me) just how many of the big players actually end up present in IC. Personally I wish there were fewer of them. It felt, contrived and forced. A little "oh wouldn't it be cool if..." Rather than a potentially very political and important story arc.'

- golden words brother!