How is 8th shaping to affect Deathwatch

[SnakeChisler]

So we have the latest nugget in that Morale is a once only test but the interesting thing is here we know that this can be affected by nearby Characters working backwards from Terminators who are currently 9 and now 8 you'd expect we'd be 8 as well.

 

We know a whole bucketful of rules are going to bite the dust and not before time as the whole USR thing ended up getting silly with codex specific buffs and ways round page upon page of common rules.

 

Anyways if were going to be 8 its going to be hard to get us to fail a test it does appear though this is a remove model tests (as in your not going to roll moral then roll a save)

 

So how does this affect Kill Teams assuming were going to get a variant of our staple organisation layout?

 

1st in there's a strong rumour  that characters are now gone completely and that would make sense from a streamline point of view as all this challenge malarky would go straight down the bin with it also in the mill is that we still have IC's but they can't join units so straight away Deathstars go in the same bin along with challenges.

 

The burning question though is will we be allowed Kill Teams if so it looks like they will be one of the few mixed units in the game?

 

I have to say my head is positively spinning with the BellofLostSouls rumours roundup

[Lexicanum]

We have a confirmation today from Warhammer Community that Formations are officially dead.

 

I wonder what that means for Kill Teams. Do you think they'll maintain an option for mixed units of DW Sternguard, Vanguard, Terminators, and Bikes? Or will they be limited to distinct and separate squads?

 

On the one hand, the streamlined 8th edition experience may eschew more complicated mixed units like the ones represented by our 7th ed Kill Team Formations. On the other, our current fluff and identity are somewhat tied up in those mixed Kill Teams.

 

I can't say I'll be disappointed either way, as there are good opportunities to clean up rules confusion and balance wargear options in both cases.

[Moostick]

Alright boys, time to whip out them 3 land raiders!

 

Hopefully they give us more unit options or give more diversified detachments that don't need large amounts of Heavy Support/Fast Attack without compromising command points. Even having to bring just a single heavy support would cripple our options.

[robofish7591]

That depends, now that we know formations aren't a thing anymore, we could have a heavy support killteam as a unit.  It could be a devastator equivalent.  I really hope that GW realized what people didn't like about the deathwatch codex and FAQ.  Having killteams that have different abilities, other than rerolls against certain unit types, would be a step in the right direction.  I'm not going to hold my breath or anything, but I am going to try and remain optimistic.  

[Mobius0288]

So we have the latest nugget in that Morale is a once only test but the interesting thing is here we know that this can be affected by nearby Characters working backwards from Terminators who are currently 9 and now 8 you'd expect we'd be 8 as well.

 

 

 

Just read the warhammer community post again but I didn't see any evidence of "nearby units" being affected by morale of another unit. It stated the morale test is for each unit that loses a model during your turn.

 

 

We have a confirmation today from Warhammer Community that Formations are officially dead.

 

I'm kind of stoked for this because it looks like the intent is to play detachment vs detachment, points-be-damned! And that would be awesome because now I may be able to deck out my DW how I want. Consequently the army I face would do the same but I think that's where we may have an advantage because of our options.

 

Yes I know people will want to play with point limits, but to have the option is nice. The codex is going to be WAAYY different when it comes out but just imagine fully decked out kill teams, razorback and blackstar dedicated transports, AND a landraider for heavy support. Like on a game table. Like physically on a game table. You would NEVER see that in 7th unless you were playing over 2500 pts Apocalypse type games. Now I'd be able to walk into my GW store and be like "Hey bro, wanna play a patrol vs patrol game?"

 

Fingers crossed these "Command points" give us access to objective secured (or even better if no one gets it). I could see it being faction specific doctrines though.

[Master Avoghai]

One big wondering I have is the profile of the deathwatch veterans itself. 

 

Now with 2W terminators, I'm wondering if veterans (veteran squads, termis and vet sgt) won't be 2W. It's something that I've seen suggested many times across the net and an idea that looks interesting. Moreover, There are lots of speculations around the fact that characters would know a raise in W to compensate some multi W weapons.

Hence it wouldn't that surprising to see that, at last, GW has a different profile for vets...

 

Now on a more factual note, I think that weapon like Inferno HB could become an interesting choice. It actually would depend on the number of shots for the HB parts but the possibility to make several S5 AP-1 shots at 36" with only a -1 modifier on the move could be particularly deadly even against a MeQ army. 

[Kargrym]

Now on a more factual note, I think that weapon like Inferno HB could become an interesting choice. It actually would depend on the number of shots for the HB parts but the possibility to make several S5 AP-1 shots at 36" with only a -1 modifier on the move could be particularly deadly even against a MeQ army.

It's better than you think.

I donno if you noticed this on the current profile for the Infernus Heavy Bolter, but it's Assault 3 not Heavy 3. There is no -1 on the move. I missed this too when I first started using one in kill team. Now I run and gun with him.

[Ordo Xenos Inquisitor]

 

Now on a more factual note, I think that weapon like Inferno HB could become an interesting choice. It actually would depend on the number of shots for the HB parts but the possibility to make several S5 AP-1 shots at 36" with only a -1 modifier on the move could be particularly deadly even against a MeQ army.

It's better than you think.

I donno if you noticed this on the current profile for the Infernus Heavy Bolter, but it's Assault 3 not Heavy 3. There is no -1 on the move. I missed this too when I first started using one in kill team. Now I run and gun with him.

 

 

The Infernus HB is not as good as the Frag Cannon. One major advantage that baby has is a longer range.

[Prot]

 

Now on a more factual note, I think that weapon like Inferno HB could become an interesting choice. It actually would depend on the number of shots for the HB parts but the possibility to make several S5 AP-1 shots at 36" with only a -1 modifier on the move could be particularly deadly even against a MeQ army.

It's better than you think.

I donno if you noticed this on the current profile for the Infernus Heavy Bolter, but it's Assault 3 not Heavy 3. There is no -1 on the move. I missed this too when I first started using one in kill team. Now I run and gun with him.

 

 

Oh I think some of us have played with the IHB quite a bit. I think it's fair to say some people do indeed try hard to champion the IHB cause, but largely it's been of very debatable worth. 

 

I would almost guarantee it will get changed (for the better) in 8th. There's been many a discussion about it though:

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/328282-infernus-heavy-bolters-and-you/?p=4576379

[Kargrym]

Drop it by 5 points and add SIA profile and it becomes awesome.

[Vel'Cona]

Drop it by 5 points and add SIA profile and it becomes awesome.

 

Via the article regarding CSM today, we can be fairly certain the HB by itself is in for major buffs in 8th (there was a specific mention of them returning to the fold).  I can imagine that means even more buffs for the IHB, especially taking into account the changes to the HF, too.

[SnakeChisler]

The return of the Primarch had command points in it, are these a taster of the new edition a lot of them seemed inconsequential at the time given the fact if you ran with Roboute his 12" command bubble of warlord traits  and taking his leadership meant you didn't need quite a few of them.

 

News on the HB is really good the cost  of ours is HB + HF = Infernus HB even though you can only shoot 1 of the weapons profile at a time and for all those guys that bought Razorbacks for their double demi its a decent way of keeping the vehicle relevant.

 

I wonder with 8th round the corner they were reluctant to break out the system

 

Also the knowledge that stuff was changing may well be why we didn't see pistols on the Vets but they do carry chain swords, with the heads up on pistols being used in CC in the shooting phase and things running along a more thematic line there has to be some sort of CC buff for chain swords.

They just have to be better at killing stuff and or defending yourself in CC than clubbing someone with a bolter or using a combat knife

 

On another note I seriously hope Melta has 2 d6 damage at short range with the news that the morkanought gets 18 wounds it will take forever to kill anything big anyways its going to reduce the current trend of grav spam in marine armies

[SnakeChisler]

So official today split fire is in given we had an FAQ on the Bolter ammo as well and the Heavy is -1 to hit then sprinkling a stalker or 2 in squads sounds a decent call.

 

I could split my stalker squad up and add a guy to each squad the shotguns could shoot at a different target as well & some points reduction for the IHB & power weapons on vets and we could truly start to see a kill team approach take shape.

[Reyner]

Dudes. Behold the dawn of the age of the combi-weapon.

 

Unlimited shots

Fire both parts of weapon at same time with -1 to hit, so fire plasma gun and some special issue ammo too just to make sure.

[Moostick]

I really don't understand what is going to happen to dual profile weapons.

 

If HB is now Heavy 6, Str 5, 1 D (I'm assuming the 6 is not already doubling the twin linked) what in the world is HF going to be? Based on the Flamer reveal, it should be Assault D6, str 5, 1 D, but that would make it worthless compared to the HB.

 

Edit: oh, nm. The profile was for "twin HB", so profile does include the double shots.

Edited May 10, 2017 by Moostick

[Sonoftherubric21]

That sounds like a crazy good win for the Deathwatch.....YIKES! Combis are terrifying. 

[Ordo Xenos Inquisitor]

Dudes. Behold the dawn of the age of the combi-weapon.

 

Unlimited shots

Fire both parts of weapon at same time with -1 to hit, so fire plasma gun and some special issue ammo too just to make sure.

 

Assuming that poison is still a thing, Captain Artemis is gonna be packing toxic heat upon the xenos. >:D

[Lexicanum]

The changes to combi are welcome and make them much more appealing.

 

My only thought at this point is that we'll almost certainly be paying a premium to get them. All the changes today seem very good for Deathwatch (and most Marine armies), but until we see relative points costs, we don't really know if these choices are truly usable. I'm optimistic either way.

[leth]

The heavy flamer was only worse than frag because of their comparative costs as well as the frag ignoring 3+ saves.  Now it is much closer. 

 

We also have a pretty good idea of how things will break down

Flamer, d6 auto hits

Small Blast d3 hits(guess)

Large Blast d6 hits

 

Str stays the same

 

AP 4 - 1

Ap 3 - 2

AP 2 - 3

AP 1 - 4

[Master Avoghai]

 

On another note I seriously hope Melta has 2 d6 damage at short range with the news that the morkanought gets 18 wounds it will take forever to kill anything big anyways its going to reduce the current trend of grav spam in marine armies

 

It's 2d6 and keep the highest, so no not straight 2d6

 

I think that this guy will know a big return of attractivity  :

 

 

 

Now I wonder how will TL flamer work... 2x1d6 or 2d6 hits? :unsure:

[Prot]

Interesting thought on the Twin Flamer, but for me the Redeemer is a big question, however the Crusader just got really, really interesting for DW! :)

[Master Avoghai]

It's not a crusader Prot but a prometheus from FW.

 

24 shot of Twinlinked HB goodness

[Prot]

It's not a crusader Prot but a prometheus from FW.

24 shot of Twinlinked HB goodness

I understand that, but I think forgeworld really has to get their act together for Deathwatch. We've had entire threads dedicated to the subject and FW has been completely unresponsive to requests for 'official' rules on their product for DW.

 

For now I think the humble Crusader which I never took in 7 th might be amazing with all hurricanes and twin assault cannons unloading heavy hammer units into CC and swinging first.

[robofish7591]

I'm hoping that when forgeworld releases their rules, they include deathwatch. Especially after stringing us along with that picture, they kind of owe us after that one!

[Ordo Xenos Inquisitor]

Interesting thought on the Twin Flamer, but for me the Redeemer is a big question, however the Crusader just got really, really interesting for DW!

And people told me that the Land Raider Crusader isn't a wise purchase for my Deathwatch. Hahahaha.