"I am Ripper... Tearer... Slasher." SW 3K Bloodied Claws

[Carnivore]

It's taken me a while, but I finally feel ready to start my Wolves. I'm still working on my Night Lords, but I wanted to fully commit to my favorite Loyalist Legion and so here's my first try. Any feedback is appreciated, and I apologize if I got any points or rules wrong - I still don't have Inferno so I'm going second-hand with some of it. The only things I insist on keeping are Russ, a Terminator Praetor, the Varagyr (in some form), and the Leviathan.

 

SPACE WOLVES - THE BLOODIED CLAWS [3000pts]

 

HQ

 

Praetor (185pts):

• Cataphractii Terminator Armour, Paragon Blade, Digital Lasers, Mastercraft a Single Weapon

 

Priest of Fenris [165pts]:

• Speaker of the Dead, Cataphractii Terminator Armour, Great Frost Blade, Combi-Weapon

Troops

Varagyr Wolf Guard Terminator Squad [700pts]:

• Varagyr Thegn: Chainfist & Frost Claw
• 4x Varagyr Terminators: 2x Chainfists, 1 Frost Claw, 2x Power Fists, & 2x Reaper Autocannons
• Legion Spartan Assault Tank: Armoured Ceramite, Dozer Blade, Flare Shield

Grey Slayer Pack [300pts]:

• Huscarl: Artificer Armour, Great Frost Blade
• 15x Grey Slayers
• Legion Vexilla, Nuncio-vox
• 3x Power Fists
• 1x Power Axe
• 10x Combat Shields

Fast Attack

Legion Javelin Attack Speeder [75pts]: 2x Hunter-killer Missile, Multi-melta, Twin-linked Cyclone missile launcher

 

Heavy Support

 

Leviathan Siege Dreadnought [410pts]: Armoured Ceramite, Leviathan Siege Claw, Leviathan Siege Drill, 2x Heavy Flamers, Phosphex Discharger, Legion Dreadnought Drop Pod

 

Legion Fire Raptor Gunship [210pts]: Reaper Autocannon Battery

 

Legion Spartan Assault Tank [400pts]: Armoured Ceramite, Dozer Blade, Flare Shield, Frag Assault Launchers, Multi Melta

 

Lord of War

Leman Russ [455pts]

• Wolf Kin of Russ [100pts]

As it stands, the plan is for Russ, his Wolf Kin, the Praetor and the Speaker of the Dead to go with the Varagyr in one Spartan and the Grey Slayers in the other Spartan. Leviathan pods in and provides a Distraction Carnifex, Javelin works the flanks, and the Fire Raptor provides AA and general mobile firepower.

[svane jotunsbane]

hey, one thing that stands out  to me that you'll need to fix is for the varangr to have spartan as a DT(i assume that the one listed with them is) that they need to be 6 men or up to take one as a dedicated transport. 

[Unknown Legionnaire]

Just out of curiosity, why the Praetor ? You've got Russ unlocking RoW / MotL, so why not pick something cheaper ?

[Caillum]

^ That's a valid point. You also need a 3rd HQ, as it's a 3k list. Never mind - I just saw the Wolf-kin.

 

The Grey Slayers will perform much better with some support - putting your Speaker of the Dead will help with Fearless, Preferred Enemy and FNP (and save you 10 points on the vexilla). Also, drop the frag assault launchers (as the Grey Slayers have frag grenades already) and the multi-melta (as you'll be moving too much to use it at full BS).

 

Hellstrikes on the Fire Raptor would be really good if you can afford them. The Praetor could be downgraded to a Centurion if you need points - will still be a viable model. :)

[Unknown Legionnaire]

He's got 3 HQs though, counting the Wolf-Kin.

 

And yeah, I second the notion to maybe get a character to boost the Slayers. Even Geigor seems like a good call here as opposed to a Praetor / Centurion, since he's got Warrior's Mettle.

[Beerhammer]

Isn't the wolf king a lord of war and not a HQ? Does he fill an HQ role being selected from the Lord of War section? Just a question ....

[Unknown Legionnaire]

What ?

[Beerhammer]

Space Wolves require an HQ per 1000 points. In a 3k list can the Russ count as an HQ to meet that requirement?

[Unknown Legionnaire]

No.

 

Russ is a LoW choice.

 

The Wolf-Kin ARE a HQ choice though, that can be used when Russ is in your list, thus they fulfil one of the 3 HQ requirements in a 3.000 pts. list.

[Carnivore]

hey, one thing that stands out to me that you'll need to fix is for the varangr to have spartan as a DT(i assume that the one listed with them is) that they need to be 6 men or up to take one as a dedicated transport.

Can anyone confirm this? I never knew that there was a mandatory minimum unit size before you have access to larger transports - especially if added ICs pushed the unit over the size requirement. I don't mean to doubt you, I've just never heard that before or noticed in the rulebook. If you're right, I apologize for second-guessing you.

Just out of curiosity, why the Praetor ? You've got Russ unlocking RoW / MotL, so why not pick something cheaper ?

Honestly, I went with the Praetor for three reasons:

1) I've never run a Primarch before (except Curze once or twice before I settled on my Night Lords being Loyalists), so I've always had a Praetor.

2) I don't consider myself the greatest strategist or mathhammer-er, so to compensate for my weaknesses as a player I always want my HQs to be as strong as possible, especially given the toughness of much of what you come across in 30K. Even though Russ is my warlord per se, I wanted his back-up to be a beast as well. How do Centurions stack up next to Praetors in a fight? Is he a viable enough second-in-command stats-wise?

3) The last reason is purely fluff-driven. Hvarl is better than a regular Praetor in terms of stats and special rules, and Geigor seems really weak to me, and I like making my own characters up anyway. I love the Wolf Lords, and I always imagine my Wolf Lord as being the strongest warrior and greatest leader in their company, and the Praetor had the stat line to back up that fluff.

,^ That's a valid point. You also need a 3rd HQ, as it's a 3k list. Never mind - I just saw the Wolf-kin.

The Grey Slayers will perform much better with some support - putting your Speaker of the Dead will help with Fearless, Preferred Enemy and FNP (and save you 10 points on the vexilla). Also, drop the frag assault launchers (as the Grey Slayers have frag grenades already) and the multi-melta (as you'll be moving too much to use it at full BS).

Hellstrikes on the Fire Raptor would be really good if you can afford them. The Praetor could be downgraded to a Centurion if you need points - will still be a viable model.

Great feedback as always my friend - thanks for the explanation as well . That's a great point about the Speaker of the Dead - is losing Warrior's Mettle that much of a sacrifice? If not (and it doesn't seem to be) I'll gladly sling him in there with them.

Here's my second attempt... please critique :-).

HQ

Praetor (170pts):

• Cataphractii Terminator Armour, Paragon Blade, Digital Lasers

Priest of Fenris [155pts]:

• Speaker of the Dead, Aether-Rune Armour, Great Frost Blade

Troops

Varagyr Wolf Guard Terminator Squad [794pts]:

• Varagyr Thegn: Chainfist & Frost Claw
• 6x Varagyr Terminators: 2x Chainfists, 2 Frost Claws, 1x Thunder Hammer, & 2x Reaper Autocannons
• Legion Spartan Assault Tank: Armoured Ceramite, Dozer Blade, Flare Shield

Grey Slayer Pack [281pts]:

• Huscarl: Artificer Armour, Great Frost Blade
• 15x Grey Slayers
• Nuncio-vox
• 3x Power Fists
• 2x Power Axes
• 7x Combat Shields

Fast Attack

Legion Land Speeder (45pts): Hunter-Killer Missile

Heavy Support

Leviathan Siege Dreadnought [395pts]: Armoured Ceramite, Leviathan Siege Claw, Leviathan Siege Drill, 2x Heavy Flamers, Legion Dreadnought Drop Pod

Legion Fire Raptor Gunship [230pts]: Hellstrike Missiles, Reaper Autocannon Battery

Legion Spartan Assault Tank [375pts]: Armoured Ceramite, Dozer Blade, Flare Shield

Lord of War

Leman Russ [455pts]

• Wolf Kin of Russ [100pts]

[Carnivore]

Also, do I have enough Troops? With my Night Lords Terror Assault forced me to have at least 3 scoring units, so I have to ask.

[svane jotunsbane]

 

hey, one thing that stands out to me that you'll need to fix is for the varangr to have spartan as a DT(i assume that the one listed with them is) that they need to be 6 men or up to take one as a dedicated transport.

Can anyone confirm this? I never knew that there was a mandatory minimum unit size before you have access to larger transports - especially if added ICs pushed the unit over the size requirement. I don't mean to doubt you, I've just never heard that before or noticed in the rulebook. If you're right, I apologize for second-guessing you.

 

 

 

its all good mate, no need to apologize, its one of those rules that arent common with terminator units so its easy enough to overlook.

the entry reads under dedicated transport on the varagyr wolf guard terminator squad page:-

 

' a varagyr terminator squad may take a land raider phobos or land raider proteus as a dedicated transport if it numbers five models, or

a spartan if it numbers between 6-10 models.

 

i dont believe this is common with other legions terminator units, its a VI legion specific one.

[Carnivore]

Thanks for the clarification, mate, I really appreciate it. And just for the record, I DO apologize for doubting you - that's on me.

 

 

 

hey, one thing that stands out to me that you'll need to fix is for the varangr to have spartan as a DT(i assume that the one listed with them is) that they need to be 6 men or up to take one as a dedicated transport.

Can anyone confirm this? I never knew that there was a mandatory minimum unit size before you have access to larger transports - especially if added ICs pushed the unit over the size requirement. I don't mean to doubt you, I've just never heard that before or noticed in the rulebook. If you're right, I apologize for second-guessing you.

 

 

its all good mate, no need to apologize, its one of those rules that arent common with terminator units so its easy enough to overlook.

the entry reads under dedicated transport on the varagyr wolf guard terminator squad page:-

 

' a varagyr terminator squad may take a land raider phobos or land raider proteus as a dedicated transport if it numbers five models, or

a spartan if it numbers between 6-10 models.

 

i dont believe this is common with other legions terminator units, its a VI legion specific one.

 

Thanks for the clarification, mate, I really appreciate it. And just for the record, I DO apologize for doubting you - that's on me. That's really interesting, though - another interesting legion-specific "restriction" if you will - I wonder what the rationale with that was. I really do hope they tweak the Varagyr's rules a bit down the road, whether it's giving them all 2 wounds, lowering their cost, or tweaking their unit size a la Justaerin,  as they are such an awesome iconic unit with great potential on the table but some random issues along the way.

 

Any other thoughts on the list, anyone? I'd love some additional feedback if anyone has any. Thanks!

[Carnivore]

So just rolling around some ideas here, but if I drop the Priest and the Land Speeder, I could add 2 Centurions, EACH with:

 

• Artificer Armour
• Great Frost Blade
• Boarding Shield
• 1x Fenrisian Wolf

 

That would give me 3 Great Frost Blades and 3 Power Fists in the unit, coupled with the Centurions being able to tank for the unit with their boarding shields and Fenrisian Wolves against anything too hard for the Grey Slayers' combat shields. In a Spartan, this unit looks like a straight-up blender to me, that can also handle some nasty stuff pretty easily on its own, but I make be looking at it all wrong.

 

 

So, would adding the two Centurions to the Grey Slayer Pack be a better use of the points? I like the Priest a lot, but I'm just trying to maximize every element of this army as much as possible.

[Caillum]

I'd stay with a Speaker of the Dead instead of 2 Centurions. He adds a lot. Then put Geigor, a Centurion or a Praetor (in order of preference) into the squad.

 

However, you're lone Speeder is a bit of a waste. Plus you really need more Troops. And what is your answer to a Super-heavy?

 

You have 2/3 of your army tied up in 2 Spartans full of Infantry. They'll wreck face if they get into combat, but if someone blasts their rides with graviton templates, you're gonna have a bad day. :)

[Carnivore]

I'd stay with a Speaker of the Dead instead of 2 Centurions. He adds a lot. Then put Geigor, a Centurion or a Praetor (in order of preference) into the squad.

However, you're lone Speeder is a bit of a waste. Plus you really need more Troops. And what is your answer to a Super-heavy?

You have 2/3 of your army tied up in 2 Spartans full of Infantry. They'll wreck face if they get into combat, but if someone blasts their rides with graviton templates, you're gonna have a bad day.

I was hoping the Leviathan and the Varagyr were enough, but by the powers, you're right. I'm not sure how to fix the Troops issue, but how does this list handle the Super-Heavy problem?

SPACE WOLVES: THE BLOODIED CLAWS 3000pts

HQ

Praetor (170pts):

• Cataphractii Terminator Armour, Paragon Blade, Digital Lasers

Priest of Fenris [155pts]:

• Speaker of the Dead, Aether-Rune Armour, Great Frost Blade

Troops

Varagyr Wolf Guard Terminator Squad [804pts]

• Varagyr Thegn: Chainfist, Frost Claw
• Varagyr Terminator: Chainfist, Frost Claw
• Varagyr Terminator: Chainfist, Frost Claw
• Varagyr Terminator: Combi-Bolter, Thunder Hammer
• Varagyr Terminator: Combi-Bolter, Frost Claw
• Varagyr Terminator: Power Fist, Reaper Autocannon
• Varagyr Terminator: Frost Axe, Reaper Autocannon
• Legion Spartan Assault Tank: Armoured Ceramite, Dozer Blade, Flare Shield

Grey Slayer Pack [271pts]:

• Huscarl: Artificer Armour, Great Frost Blade, Melta Bombs
• 15x Grey Slayers
• Nuncio-vox
• 3x Power Fists
• 7x Combat Shields

Fast Attack

Legion Storm Eagle Assault Gunship [210pts]

--> The Speaker of the Dead and the Grey Slayers ride in here now.

Heavy Support

Leviathan Siege Dreadnought [395pts]: Armoured Ceramite, Leviathan Siege Claw, Leviathan Siege Drill, 2x Heavy Flamers, Legion Dreadnought Drop Pod

Legion Fire Raptor Gunship [230pts]: Hellstrike Missiles, Reaper Autocannon Battery

Sicaran Venator Tank Destroyer [210pts]: Armoured Ceramite

Lord of War

Leman Russ [455pts]

• Wolf Kin of Russ [100pts]

[Carnivore]

Anyone have any viable alternative lists with more troops? As I said I MUST keep Russ and the Varagyr, and I want to keep the Praetor and the Leviathan, but beyond that I'm totally open to suggestion.

[Carnivore]

Also, other than the Reaper Autocannons, is there any point in keeping the combi-bolters on any of the Varagyr when I have the option of swapping for a frost weapon? Obviously I've already done that for several of them, just trying to figure out if it makes more sense to do that for the rest as well to maximize their CC potential.

[Caillum]

I think until Saturday at 11am UK time, it would be best to hold off on any decisions. Only reason I haven't posted any more suggestions.

[Carnivore]

Alright everyone... now that we know what we know (sort of?), anyone have any viable alternative lists with more troops? Or other changes you think it needs?

[Caillum]

Ok, after going back through the thread I have come up with this...

 

 

HQ

Centurion in Terminator armour: 2 × Fenrisian Cyberwolf; Terminator armour (Cataphractii); great frost blade 125

Priest of Fenris (Speaker of the Dead): great frost blade; Æther-rune armour; melta bombs 150

2 Wolf-kin xxx

 

TROOPS

19 Grey Slayers: Huscarl (power fist; artificer armour); 18 Grey Slayers; 10 × combat shield; 5 × power weapon; 3 × power fist 320

6 Varagyr Terminators: Varagyr Thegn (chainfist; second frost blade); 5 Varagyr Terminators; 5 × chainfist; 5 × second frost blade 372

• Spartan Assault Tank: armoured ceramite; flare shield; dozer blade 375

 

FAST ATTACK

Storm Eagle Assault Gunship: hull-mounted missile launcher; 2 wing-mounted twin-linked lascannon; searchlight 256

 

HEAVY SUPPORT

Fire Raptor Gunship: 2 × turret-mounted Reaper autocannon batteries; 4 wing-mounted Hellstrike missiles; searchlight 241

Sicaran Venator Tank Destroyer: dozer blade 195

Leviathan Pattern Siege Dreadnought Talon

• Leviathan Pattern Siege Dreadnought: Leviathan siege drill; armoured ceramite; phosphex discharger 310

• Dreadnought Drop Pod xxx

 

LORDS OF WAR

Leman Russ: Rite of War (The Bloodied Claws) xxx

 

2,999 points

 

 

You need a Centurion/Praetor - that's the rules for Space Wolves. But you also need to be points-efficient, hence the Centurion with great frost blade. You could go for a Praetor still, but he'll have basically no gear.

 

Russ, Wolf-kin and Centurion join the 6 Varagyr in their Spartan.

 

SotD joins the Grey Slayers in the Storm Eagle. Gave it lascannons so it can hunt vehicles.

 

Sicaran Venator tries to shut down Super-heavies. Leviathan wrecks face. Fire Raptor unloads all its firepower where it needs to.

 

List still has only 2 Troops choices, but that is its only real weakness. Should do well in the kill point mission though!

[Carnivore]

Wow... that list looks savage! And other than the Praetor I lose nothing that I wanted, which in the grand scheme of things isn't really a hardship at all. And you even gave me a basic tactical overview . Thanks mate! Couple of questions...

1) I love the Varagyr set-up. Seems perfect for hitting hard targets, especially with Russ and the Centurion and their Wolves. And I love the look of the chainfist/frost claw combo. Just out of curiosity, in your opinion are the Reapers ever worth it on a unit that seems like it should be charging and charging (a la Red Butchers) all the time?

2) Grey Slayers seem able to tackle most anything as well. With four(!) powerfists in the unit, are swords or axes a better complement as the power weapon choices?

[Caillum]

1. I put the frost claw/chainfist combo in as it is unique to Varagyr - so many attacks with great flexibility. Multiple Reaper autocannons is very cool, but like you said... look at their statline. It screams close combat. I'd play to their strengths.

 

2. Grey Slayers get Furious Charge, so that helps a lot either way. Axe vs sword is usually always going to end up with axes winning, but with the unit having 12 S9 AP2 Unwieldy attacks, maybe some S5 AP3 at Initiative is a good thing...

 

Hopefully gives you a solid foundation to build on. Couple of other ideas though...

- Reserves manipulation is very helpful with 2 Flyers. Maybe find a way to get a Comms Relay in (ie. park the Venator behind an Aegis Line utilising the re-roll).

- Troops are still an issue. Assault Squads get Furious Charge too, so they could be nice. Not sure how you could afford them though.

 

Good luck! :)

[Spiritual Liege]

Never mind, just read the upper comments...