The future of Scouts

[Kastor Krieg]

*Regarding equipment choices, I wouldn't be surprised if Scouts and Scout Snipers got split out into two unit entries and only the Snipers could take Camo Cloaks, because that's how the model kits work. It's become increasingly common for GW to only offer rules options for things you can build straight out of the box.

Not true, Scouts have a solid number of rolled up cloaks. I had like 3-4 between the two different Scout boxes that came with SWA.

[Mr. Poe]

Oh man...have you seen the rules leaks?

 

Cloaks now give a +2 to your save! And a 6 to wound is a mortal wound i.e. no saves. I guess I should order those recon models now...

[Mr. Poe]

Ugh I did it. Ordered two units with some shoulder pads. 

 

Maybe I'll do a post when they come in!

Edited May 29, 2017 by Mr. Poe

[ddarz]

The Sniper Rifle rules from the same leak are a bit underwhelming however...

STR4 AP0 D1
Can target characters (nice)

Rolls to wound of 6 do a mortal wound in addition to normal damage (still fishing for sixes then)

 

They also cost 4 points. So a 11 point scout, plus a 3 point cloak comes to 18 points per standard camo cloaked sniper.

I would have liked a 3+ to wound or a buff to AP and damage to be honest. How are you supposed to threaten these 5 wound 2+ armour characters?

 

Also on another note, it's not clear what happens to sergeants in squads...

[SanguinaryGuardsman]

Ugh I did it. Ordered two units with some shoulder pads. 

 

Maybe I'll do a post when they come in!

Im going to field snipers in 8th for sure now.  Maybe a lot.  Imagine how epic it would be to kill Magnus with a perfect mortal wound shot into his one eyeball?  

 

Shotguns are assault 2 with strength 5 at half range.  I have a weird scout squad with 4 shotguns and a vet sarge with pistol/power sword.  That might be hit surprisingly hard up close.  

[SanguinaryGuardsman]

The Sniper Rifle rules from the same leak are a bit underwhelming however...

STR4 AP0 D1

Can target characters (nice)

Rolls to wound of 6 do a mortal wound in addition to normal damage (still fishing for sixes then)

 

They also cost 4 points. So a 11 point scout, plus a 3 point cloak comes to 18 points per standard camo cloaked sniper.

 

I would have liked a 3+ to wound or a buff to AP and damage to be honest. How are you supposed to threaten these 5 wound 2+ armour characters?

 

Also on another note, it's not clear what happens to sergeants in squads...

If snipers can target individual models in units they should still be pretty useful.  I'd like to snipe a few multi melt devs or tacticals.  

[ddarz]

Mortal wounds are only 1 damage, it will take over a dozen to drop magnus for sure, so I wouldn't count on that

 

And they can't target individual models, just characters, who otherwise have to be the closest unit for you to shoot them.

In fact, unless the scouts have some special rule, then precision shot is out - which sucks especially bad since wound allocation is now done by the defender. 
Damn that sucks...

 

Nice about the shotguns I guess

[SanguinaryGuardsman]

Mortal wounds are only 1 damage, it will take over a dozen to drop magnus for sure, so I wouldn't count on that

 

And they can't target individual models, just characters, who otherwise have to be the closest unit for you to shoot them.

In fact, unless the scouts have some special rule, then precision shot is out - which sucks especially bad since wound allocation is now done by the defender. 

Damn that sucks...

 

Nice about the shotguns I guess

Yeah overall the leaks dont look great for sniper scouts.  Hard to tell even with leaks what is going on.  There is this white hot debate raging about whether or not units have to pay for their default gear.  Hope that gets resolved asap.  It is impossible to make any list plans until that issue is cleared up.  

 

Im really liking the new storm bolters though.  Im thinking about making a unit of veterans with storm bolters and chainswords for chewing up infantry.  A 5 man squad would get 20 shots at 12 inches then 15-20 attacks on the charge.  Ouch!  

[ddarz]

I had a test game at warhammer Fest, the new assault bolters on the inceptors (jet pack marines) are insane, 3 shots eachs, STR5 for some reason and -1 rend.
That's a deeps trike 9" away from you, and 18 shots thank you very much...ouch

On the other hand they are 45points per model - plus more if the equipment costs are not included

[Mr. Poe]

The point cost seems fine to me, about what they were in 7th with improved camo cloak save. The sniper rifle is also pretty much the same except now your 6 rolls ignore armor save, which is an improvement imo. Based on the Blood Angels leaks, the average character wounds are going to range from 4-6. If you're crazy like me and field 20 scouts that's an average of 10 hits, one or two of which could be mortal wounds per turn...I'll take that. 

 

Remember you have no other way of interacting with these characters outside of close combat or bad positioning from your opponent. Granted it's not overwhelming but they are just scouts, you're not paying a lot of points. It's a shame they seem to lose Precision Shot. I guess we'll have to wait and see if they get any special rules in their data sheet. 

[WAR]

Haha I may get some for my -redacted- squad and paint them up in raptors colors

[Halandaar]

 

*Regarding equipment choices, I wouldn't be surprised if Scouts and Scout Snipers got split out into two unit entries and only the Snipers could take Camo Cloaks, because that's how the model kits work. 

 

Not true, Scouts have a solid number of rolled up cloaks. I had like 3-4 between the two different Scout boxes that came with SWA.

 

True; there are 2 rolled up cloaks on the Sniper Scouts sprue, and none on the normal set. So this doesn't actually disprove what I said, even though it turned out to be redundant.

[Mr. Poe]

Hmmm, seems like I was wrong. Camo cloaks increase the save you get from being in cover from +1 to +2. So it's the same as before, just a +1 modifier to your save for being in cover. So a 4+ save becomes a 2+ in cover.

[duz_]

Although it sounds like if youre not in cover you dont get any bonus...

[Race Bannon]

"In cover" is a condition? In other words, no cover = no bonus?

 

EDIT : semi-ninja'd, but not really. Sorta.

Edited May 31, 2017 by Race Bannon

[Mr. Poe]

seem like that's the way it is, Race. 

[Race Bannon]

Which makes sense.  I mean, wearing a cloak in the middle of an open field won't help hide you much (if at all).  In the rubble of a blasted city or among the nooks and crannies of a hillside is something different.

[Nusquam]

Just did a test game of 70 power points. I took 10 sniper scouts and kept a Captain nearby to reroll 1's to hit. They put a few mortal wounds on a land raider and a Knight. There wasnt any infantry to shoot at because they were all crammed in the LRC and then he took vehicles.

 

Being able to always target characters is going to be great though. Especially against things like apothecaries and tech-anything.

 

Also more on the cover thing, units only get cover if they are all entirely on or in terrain. Not if they obscured by it, or if one model is out of it. Only in optional terrain rules do only vehicles and monsters get cover by being obscured. Infantry never get cover by being obscured unless they are withing 1" of a barricade that separates them from the shooter. That's pretty weird.

[GreyCrow]

With the new rules, they're totally a distraction unit thanks to the better tanking in cover with Camo Cloaks.

 

Plop a few squads in a position that is annoying and hard to shift, and enjoy the amount of annoyance they'll cause to the enemy.

[MajorNese]

With changes to the LSS, tooling up a scout sergeant for CC might be useful. Plasma pistol something around, including stuff that successfully charged the LSS, or kill stuff up close. Do I see this right, you can also throw a meltabomb now? Drive By Melta-ing a land raider...

[Nusquam]

You can throw bombs, but it doesn't look like you can use them in melee unless I missed a footnote somewhere. I also see that unit's are limiting meltabombs to one model too.

 

In my second game I did use a LSS to soak overwatch from my scouts however. That was pretty cool. They're very fragile though. I did kit the sarge for CC as well. There's no reason not to take fists anymore too.

[WAR]

I don't want to put fists on my scout sgts but like you said there is no real downside anymore

[MajorNese]

Well, I intend to give the sarge a power weapon, probably an axe. Cheaper, will kill most non-vehicle stuff, and doesn't look as ridiculous on a scout. Now, take a plasma pistol or melta bombs...pistol has more range and can be used when in CC, melta bomb could be devastating when thrown from the back of a LSS.

[GreyCrow]

Still, the Scouts don't seem to be particularily intereting in this edition IMHO. Aside from Sniper Rifles.

 

The infiltrate rule is quite unwieldy, the loss of outflank is quite a pain, same for the ability to deploy after everybody has set up. The new deployment mechanics actually allow for later deployment, but still.

 

It's more of an advanced deployment than anything ?

 

I don't really know if CC Scouts are interesting anymore, except as a carrying mechanic for Sergeant weapons.

 

Land Speeder Storm is okay, the big loss of mobility (19" to 24" moving after advance) and the loss of deployment options are a bit strange. It seems okay as a mobile shooting platform for sniper scouts.

 

Idk, I just lament all the shenanigans that you could do with Scouts prior to this 8th edition.

[SanguinaryGuardsman]

Who here other than me runs scout bikers?  They were basically a distraction unit/utility unit in 7th.  8th....These bad boys are now 2w each and the astartes grenade launcher is now an assault weapon.  So scout bikers now have a ridiculous threat range and some durability.  You move 16" and turbo boost another 6" and shoot frag grenades at 24".  I think these guys are going to be pretty good for Raven Guard.