WAR Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 You forgot to mention the strength 5 shotguns at half range Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333522-the-future-of-scouts/page/3/#findComment-4770300 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MajorNese Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 Land Speeder Storm is okay, the big loss of mobility (19" to 24" moving after advance) and the loss of deployment options are a bit strange. It seems okay as a mobile shooting platform for sniper scouts. For snipers? The LSS isn't exactly cheap, and all restrictions/modifiers (includes moving) apply to the squad inside. If it moves, sniper rifles get the -1 to hit. Who here other than me runs scout bikers? They were basically a distraction unit/utility unit in 7th. 8th....These bad boys are now 2w each and the astartes grenade launcher is now an assault weapon. So scout bikers now have a ridiculous threat range and some durability. You move 16" and turbo boost another 6" and shoot frag grenades at 24". I think these guys are going to be pretty good for Raven Guard. Didn't see the part about 2W, that's cool. Also, no more dangerous terrain, so you can calculate where they get including turbo-boost, and can enter cover easily. With current wording, can the scout biker sergeant get the grenade launcher? Previously only the regular guys could. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333522-the-future-of-scouts/page/3/#findComment-4770368 Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreyCrow Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 Yes, but you can kite better than with footslogging scouts ;) and they can't be shot at until the LSS is itself destroyed. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333522-the-future-of-scouts/page/3/#findComment-4770702 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Poe Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 The reduced/nerfed deployment options are kind of a downer I'll admit. I just have a feeling that being able to put wounds on characters from a distance will be very valuable in this edition vs. particular armies. Or, at the very least, the threat of being able to do it will force your opponent to deploy differently than what might be ideal. This is a win-win in my opinion. I think CC scouts are not going to be very viable in this edition. It seem like everything has become very scary in close combat in 8th and I'm not sure if a 1 wound, 4+ save model will pose much of a threat. Even as a delivery method for melta bombs or the random PF....In 7th you had the small chance of blowing up any vehicle with a sneaky melta bomb; this is not really viable in 8th anymore as vehicles are a lot more hardy. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333522-the-future-of-scouts/page/3/#findComment-4773643 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nusquam Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 Scouts in LSS will be good to get to enemy support units like heavy weapons teams. They move far and fast. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333522-the-future-of-scouts/page/3/#findComment-4774002 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharrowkyn Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 Looks like the Primaris will soon get their own Scouts equivalents. Could be good fit with Raven Guard Fluff RE silent Power Armour?! http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Reiver_Squad duz_ and SyNidus 2 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333522-the-future-of-scouts/page/3/#findComment-4775396 Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreyCrow Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 @war009 : Indeed, I did forget this weapon ! Quite an interesting choice now, hehe ! @Nusquam : Yeah, I get what you're saying now. I do see the benefits of sending one Scout squad 9" away from an enemy, moving 6, then charging for 3. Pretty efficient in a very MSU list. I'll use them more as a support unit next time I'll play them. I guess you could technically make them the mainstay of your force, but I'm not sure the deployment options will be enough to compensate their loadout. Although in an MSU infantry list, they can be pretty interesting, banking on a larger number of squads to deploy them when you want where you want for a first turn charge. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333522-the-future-of-scouts/page/3/#findComment-4775561 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nusquam Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 Looks like the Primaris will soon get their own Scouts equivalents. Could be good fit with Raven Guard Fluff RE silent Power Armour?! http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Reiver_Squad Aaaaaaaand they got me. SyNidus 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333522-the-future-of-scouts/page/3/#findComment-4775717 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kua Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 So where do you see the place for non-sniper scouts? They can get +1 Sv in cover for 3 pts, but a tactical squad gets +1 Sv everywhere for 2 pts. Infiltration isn’t worth much either, but it is everything they got. Anyone seeing himself using CC or shotgun scouts? How? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333522-the-future-of-scouts/page/3/#findComment-4775988 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacques Corbin Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 What about the LSS? With scatter gone, is the Jamming Beacon gone too, or will it merely force units to deep strike further than 9" away? Plus the Cerebus Launcher, with the I stat gone, how will Blind work? Mr. Poe 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333522-the-future-of-scouts/page/3/#findComment-4776218 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WAR Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 Jamming beacon gone for now at least Cerebus launcher is a ranged attack Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333522-the-future-of-scouts/page/3/#findComment-4776393 Share on other sites More sharing options...
duz_ Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 So I guess CC scouts are now just screening units? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333522-the-future-of-scouts/page/3/#findComment-4776405 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MajorNese Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 Only role for CC scouts would be LSS content. Considering the LSS costs as much as a regular land speeder and the content can fire pistols from the inside, they could serve as harrassment units for the enemy backfield. Soak up overwatch, bind stuff in CC that can't fire when falling back, stuff like that. Not the most points effective way, but probably working to an extent. Race Bannon 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333522-the-future-of-scouts/page/3/#findComment-4776766 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrés Pacheco Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 10 scouts with shotguns is only 110 points, which seems quite nice for potential 20 S5 shots. With 3 units for the detachment requirement, you could string them out 5' across the opponent's deployment zone, trapping units and generally causing a nuisance, dying in droves of course, but going down banging for sure. It might buy an extra turn or two for your heavy guns to work on their armour, and then when they shoot/fight their way out of your cordon, drop some plasma vets in behind to seal the deal. All probably ridiculous, but sounds like fun to try! Operation Scout Wall, engage. Mr. Poe 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333522-the-future-of-scouts/page/3/#findComment-4777524 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Poe Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 10 scouts with shotguns is only 110 points, which seems quite nice for potential 20 S5 shots. With 3 units for the detachment requirement, you could string them out 5' across the opponent's deployment zone, trapping units and generally causing a nuisance, dying in droves of course, but going down banging for sure. It might buy an extra turn or two for your heavy guns to work on their armour, and then when they shoot/fight their way out of your cordon, drop some plasma vets in behind to seal the deal. All probably ridiculous, but sounds like fun to try! Operation Scout Wall, engage. It wound be cool if the LSS could transport a unit of 10 as opposed to only a unit of 5. The S5 shotgun could have some potential. Maybe if they were a little cheaper.... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333522-the-future-of-scouts/page/3/#findComment-4777541 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrés Pacheco Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 Yeah, just ignore the speeder, and make a derp-chain of sawn off psychos across the battlefield :) Although 5 in a speeder with a heavy flamer is still only ~150, and puts out ~13 S5 shots, which isn't too bad. ..? Maybe. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333522-the-future-of-scouts/page/3/#findComment-4777544 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Poe Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 Yea, maybe. I'm just not convinced in their durability and low strength weapons seem to not be as effective in this edition. Does the shotgun have a rending value? I dont think so unless I'm mistaken. Outside of being a nuisance, I dont know how much of an impact they will have. They could be used as a rapid response unit a little better. Keep them stock in a LSS in your backfield and have them shoot up to grab objective or screen for your more valuable units at critical times. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333522-the-future-of-scouts/page/3/#findComment-4777553 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrés Pacheco Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 No, you're completely right on all counts. No rend males the unit only viable against horde units, and then you don't really put out enough shots for that size of opponent without the points creeping past acceptable levels. Might be an OK cc screen against stealers and other non-Fly fast terror units. Make them hit and wipe your cheap scouts close to their own deployment, then counter with plasma vets etc in turn 2? I want scouts to be good, so I'll try anything :) maybe the new Primaris stealth dudes will offer a different take. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333522-the-future-of-scouts/page/3/#findComment-4777568 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Poe Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 I think sniper scouts will be a more viable application of the unit. But I do think that they can also be used to protect your more vulnerable back field units. The LSS gives you a huge movement (18"?) which is further expanded my the disembarking move of the scouts. So you could "intercept" that incoming berserker squad or gene stealers and charge them before they assault your ranged firepower. Then just prey you can hold them up for a turn. Andrés Pacheco 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333522-the-future-of-scouts/page/3/#findComment-4777597 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrés Pacheco Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 If I get a chance to use the Legion Recon marines as sniper scouts, then I'm all kinds of happy. I know snipers are getting a pretty good rep, but it only seems like ~2 wounds per 10 scouts/turn, which doesn't seem great. Hopefully actual gameplay will prove them to be useful though (I guess chipping the final wounds off a buff character could be excellent against certain armies) Mr. Poe 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333522-the-future-of-scouts/page/3/#findComment-4777623 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thoridon Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 I just noticed this is in the Raven Guard subsection but I'll add my thoughts anyway as I have some Scouts I'm trying to decide what to do with (as I have a Storm to use with them too). I'm most likely going to run 5 Scouts in the LSS as part of an Imperial Fists detachment. Assault Cannon on the LSS, Heavy Bolter for the Scouts. Possibly give a combi-Plasma to the Sergeant too, but not sure. They'd be used as a mobile response unit, zipping around as a gunboat to put shots into things. I know the Assault Cannon and Heavy Bolter will both be -1 to hit on the move but if anything suffers least from that it's multi-shot weapons. Between those two Heavies and the Bolters they can put a lot of shots into enemy infantry with good movement, and can choose between staying a safer 24" away or risk getting within 12" for the extra rapid fire bolter shots. If BA could run the LSS I'd also give one to my BA scouts (all pistol and chainsword) and stick a power axe/sword on the Sergeant with the cheap cost now. I'd put a Heavy Flamer on the LSS and use the unit to go assault things quickly. As BA can't take the LSS I won't be doing that :p (even if I run an Imperial or Astartes detachment they'd still be different chapters and unable to ride). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333522-the-future-of-scouts/page/3/#findComment-4777777 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Race Bannon Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 Heh, SHOTGUN BOAT! Oh, I'm going to try that ... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333522-the-future-of-scouts/page/3/#findComment-4777827 Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreyCrow Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 Come on guys ! Since when do we limit The use of scouts ? CC Scouts are awesome in an MSU list to beat deployment of key units, push The opponent back in his lines If he wants to avoid a T1 charge by à late deployed units, fantastic tarpit vs véhicules, sacrificial units for Our most evil Captains Mr. Poe 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333522-the-future-of-scouts/page/3/#findComment-4777860 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Poe Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 I just reread the Concealed Deployment rule that they have. If your opponent deploys too close to the edge of his deployment zone, you could theoretically get a fist turn charge off pretty easily. Assuming you get first turn that is. GreyCrow 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333522-the-future-of-scouts/page/3/#findComment-4777959 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrés Pacheco Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 Definitely, and 20 S5 slugs to boot. If you can manipulate getting first turn somehow is a nice jab to the nose on T1. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333522-the-future-of-scouts/page/3/#findComment-4777974 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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