What are you excited about for 8th? Ultramarines specific

[Prot]

I guess this thread has shifted to Primaris talk....

 

The thing is we have to remember that GW stated you can play a whole battle forged army of these guys. That means you can't really judge how great they'll be until we know all the units. We've only seen the Intercessor (?) which is a troop. What happens when some of these guys have jump packs? Or what kind of amazing Cawl-Grav 9000 weapon will their Devs be able to carry?  What will a Primaris Rhino have for wounds? What about when the Primaris gene hits the HQ line up?

[Ishagu]

I didn't really want to talk about Primaris but the main topic was closed down.

 

My excitement has been dampened significantly because these new Marines will be the obvious future focus. Old heroes and units will be effective I'm sure, but they'll likely stagnate in the next edition.

My biggest problem is just how much better these guys will look, and their new transports etc. I don't think regular Marines will evoke the same feeling or awe from an opponent.

 

We play Marines for a reason - they are epic, iconic and powerful. Unfortunately compared to these guys that's no longer true :-/

[derLumpi]

My biggest problem is just how much better these guys will look, and their new transports etc. I don't think regular Marines will evoke the same feeling or awe from an opponent.

 

Well, to be fair we have seen only the first unit(s) (if you count those plasma guys as a second unit). I'm not sure if anyone of the guys I play with will buy those guys but as I said before I will use deathwatch marine (if any, haven't decided yet) to represent primaris marines. And may be, just may be, the rest of the primaris range won't look that good (although GW has proven in the last month that they have what it takes to make really beautiful model). 

 

I'm in the 'wait-and-see' corner. Waiting for more pictures and for more fluff info.

Will save me lot of money on the other hand :D

[Dariokan]

Sorry Prot, I didn't mean to hijack the thread...

If we keep the same Chapter tactics, Dreads, with twin-linked weapons will be pretty powerful, twice the number of shots with rerolls... I'm also eager to see how the new Land Raider Phobos fare on the table, as well as our flyers. All that tiwn linked weaponry...

However, I'm afraid Tigurius will be toned down a little... but with a little luck, he will gain a little more survivability (at long last, a 2+ save ? even if it doesn't mean the same now).
If the game has been playtested as they say, Sicarius will hopefully get better too, being a proper CC menace. Note that if he keeps Ld10 and his ability to grant his Ld to other units (in a bubble now), it will be a very nice boost. :)

[Frater Cornelius]

I doubt he will have 10. Seeing as SM now have the Ld value of a Stormcast Battleline, it is save to assume that the HQs will have around 9, with few notable exceptions and Daemons.

[Prot]

I didn't really want to talk about Primaris but the main topic was closed down.

 

 

 

 

Sorry Prot, I didn't mean to hijack the thread...

 

 

 

 

No, I'm sorry. I didn't realize the Primaris thread was shut down? I personally think it is its own topic (and kind of a large beast).

 

I definitely am mixed about them myself. I feel there are many real life comparisons that do make the change valid. I understand people who say they look cool and 'it's about time we looked menacing and cool', etc. I also understand the feeling of the once omnipotent super soldier being swept aside.

 

I love the new models, but am definitely mixed about the financial fall out of this for me personally. I just started a gob of scouts and about 20 marines. Even my HQ's (I imagine) will look out of place now. I may have to rethink my plans.

[ShVagYeR]

I feel that I contributed to steering the thread away from Ultras in 8ed to Primaris myself as well, so I apologize for that. As a final thought I'd just like to say that while I do see the regular marines being phased out in favor of Primaris ones, it will take years. I've been doing this hobby since 2012 and I can see the army being valid at least for that long from now on. People drawing parallels between Space Marines vs Primars and Bretonnia/Empire vs Stormcasts have got to realize that Bretonnia/Empire were old model lines at the time AoS hit, while Space Marines have had like 75% of the model range renewed within the last 3-4 years. So yes, they will get phased out eventually, but we have years of playing them ahead of us until that happens.

 

If someone wants a game where models will never go out of fashion, I guess only historicals remain an option. GW has updated their models for each game time and again, so it's an inherent risk. ;)

 

Just my 2 cents.

[Frater Cornelius]

GW confirmed that existing Marines can undergo an 'ascension' to a Primaris. Inb4 Primaris Tigurius and Calgar <3

[Dariokan]

Well, in Calgar's case, it will mostly be "putting bigger bionic limbs".

[Toxichobbit]

Going back to the earlier discussion about power fists, I have good news.

 

"Power fists are just -1 to hit".

 

That's GW's answer from todays (18/5) Q&A when asked about initiative in close combat. Hopefully that means that power fists will strike first on the charge (just like 2nd ed).

 

I'm so glad that so many of the (imo) terrible changes that we've been stuck with since 3rd hit are being reversed.

[Dariokan]

I hope Calgar will not get this -1, so as to show his mastery of the Gauntlets. (today, he swings at initiative...). Fingers crossed.

[IronDrake28]

Oh yeah definitely. And he'll be hitting on 2s most likely. Plus termy armour is +1 Wound at least. :D

[Dariokan]

Based on my knowledge of AoS, Captain shall be in the 5W area, and Chapter master should be at least 6 or even 7.

[Captain Idaho]

Terminators only hitting on a 4+ with 10 attacks but potentially before their opponents is big.

 

Loving it. Long live the Terminators!

[Bmseifer]

Terminators also seem to retain their teleporting from reserves(even on turn 1?). And since it looks like we can charge from reserves things are looking good for the TDA clad warriors. No coincidence I have 10 Tartaros being built, magnetized and painted in lovely blue colors

[derLumpi]

Yes, I'm also looking forward to terminators. If they will be able to get their points worth back in the game that would be awesome.

First company with Calgar & Agemman hurting the enemy after teleporting in.

[Brother Captain Ed]

Powerfist profile is up. Unless they are wicked overcosted they'll definitely see play. Especially on captains and chapter masters where the hit penalty isn't a big deal and they typically fight models with lots of wounds anyway.

[Dariokan]

You assume Captains and Chapter Masters to hit on a 2+... ? I'm not sure this will be the case. 2+ seems to be reserved for CC monsters, Guilliman, Trakka, (as it has been said) and things like the Swarmlord, greated demons of Khorne IMHO.

Or because it will be mitigated by a high number of attacks ?

On a side note, I'm a puzzled on how they handled the chain sword. Instead of giving it -1 rend, it gives a extra attack. Well, that's still a straight boost to assault marines, who will now get 5 attacks (counting the pistol shot here) for 2 player turns instead of 4. Why not. I guess everybody knows who will get the 1 rend chainsword... not talking about Striking Scorpions here :D

[Frater Cornelius]

I find the power weapons interesting. I am quite happy that Swords and Mauls are finally worth taking. In fact, I almost feel like leaving the Axes behind and focus on those two in addition to heavier stuff like Fists and so forth.

[phoenix01]

Yay, all my power sword wielding sergeants are useful again!!!

[crazyterran]

Whos the foolish one now for using the Ultramarines Upgrade Kit power swords for my kit bash Librarians force swords?

 

Wooo.

[Bmseifer]

I'm curious how the power weapons will be costed, if they're the same points or if there will be a difference.

 

It feels like +Str is not as good as it is in 7th. Both an Axe and a Maul will wound T4 models on 3+. The maul has an advantage vs T3 - 5 - 6 and 10. This is assuming it's wielded by a S4 model ofc.

[roryokane]

Not gonna lie, I'm still irked that a lasgun can kill a land raider, and I really don't like the Primaris fluff (same way I don't like the fact that Guilliman didn't just heal himself in stasis like they'd thought he was all along), but overall this could make things really interesting.

Though Imperial Fist Primaris marines are going to be hella scary with Bolter Drill.

On to Ultramarines - the changes to chainswords make assault marines and Vanguard Vets really quite tasty, and powerfists will help Termies (God help you if you get charged by a squad of ten of them, even if you are a CC monster that is going to SUCK). And it looks like Dreads will be viable. That being said, I can't wait to see what Contemptors look like (not to mention the other variants!)

Extra shots for twin-linked weapons really helps our tanks - but I hope the Predator autocannon gets a bit of an upgrade *cough cough Heavy 4 like the heresy one cough cough* because otherwise it's just not going to be able to compete with two lascannon shots.
Overall this should be quite a boost to us as Marine Players - but as Ultramarines I need to see how command points work (and how big our heap is as kings of all things tactical (LOGISTICS FOR THE LOGISTICS THRONE)) before commenting specifically.
Oh, and Guilliman is still going to kick arse. So there's that too. :D

[crazyterran]

Im assuming you have to spend command points to use chapter tactics: ie, a white scar pays a point to hit and run a unit.

 

I dont think we will see permenant buffs like we have now. They seem to be edging away from that, from what i have read of the new system so far. For us Ultramarines players, that wont be a change, but i expect tears from everyone else later. :p

[Prot]

Today we found out a bit more about transports. I am a bit mixed about the revelation personally. If I recall, we can't shoot from them. And of course we know they are more survivable.

 

The news is they can join our assaults. We know this because it is also revealed that disembarking is done before moving the vehicle, and assaulting the same turn you disembark is legal.

 

Multiple units can share the same vehicle. So half a squad joins the assault, another squad shoots and the rhino assaults as well.

 

The thing is we won't be very good at assaulting from Rhinos without major tweaks to our army. I still feel like our special weapons lend to a better shooting game

 

I do think we will very likely be forced into Rhinos since historically we're mid ranged. And unless pods have special reserves rules for Match Play, we have to deploy at least half our armies.

 

Any thoughts?