The Primaris Space Marines and the Space Wolves

[Valerian]

To switch up the focus from fluff to crunch a bit, we've learned a few new things about the Primaris from today's leaks on the SM Codex:

 

1. Reivers can trade the Heavy bolt pistol and combat blade for a carbine bolter. They also get options for outflank or deep strike, and ignoring terrain via those grappling hooks we've seen.

 

2. Intercessors have the option to trade their bolt rifles for the auto bolt rifles we've seen on the Lieutenant, or for a Stalker bolt guns. So that's three different versions/choices for their weapon.

 

3. Likewise, Hellblasters get three choices for their plasma weapons, with the standard plasma incinerator plus now an assault plasma incinerator and a heavy plasma incinerator. These guys are going be hell on vehicles and elite infantry.

 

4. The Aggressors have options for the auto boltstorm gauntlets and fragstorm missile launchers, or they can take flamestorm gauntlets.

 

5. Inceptors can choose between those assault bolters and now also plasma exterminators.

 

So, it's nice that all of the units actually do get a few options, even if all of the non-characters are largely shooting focused.

[Grimtooth]

 

 

Now, let's take an honest look at what we can expect; some of this I've already pointed out in earlier threads.

 

The Wolfspear are a new Successor Chapter of Russ-gene Primaris that had served as Grey Shields with RG's legion of Primaris in the Indomitus Crusade. We know they were formed as a new Chapter and left to guard the Rift at a strategic point.

 

Just based on what little bit on them that was in the novel (Dark Imperium), we can be pretty certain they'll be pure Primaris Marines, and Primaris units and equipment, and their officers will come from those veterans that rose to the top during the 112 year campaign. These Wolfspear aren't going to have any legacy Grey Hunters, Blood Claws, or Long Fangs, etc. This is the most probable situation, as it seems to be exactly what has happened with the entire Ultima Founding, where the leftover gene-sons from the various Primarchs have been split from the disbanded Grey Shields to form new Chapters of purely Primaris units. It is highly doubtful that Ragnar, or anyone else from the actual Space Wolves Chapter is going to be reassigned to go serve in a leadership position over in the Wolfspear. I see this as being unlikely for several different reasons: those Marines have responsibilities to their own Chapter, the novel doesn't mention this type of reassignment being coordinated, and with the experience gained in over a century of constant warfare those new Chapters frankly don't need any outside help from their "Founding Chapters" for leadership. As Ramses has mentioned, it is pretty likely that we'll start seeing some named Primaris special characters; we'll definitely get a better idea of what to expect in our codex when we see the regular Space Marine codex next weekend.

 

So, the Wolfspear are pretty much covered. The only thing we don't really "know" about them yet is color scheme and symbols, and perhaps whether they'll use classic Space Wolf terminology for their units (like Wolf Lords for Captains, Rune Priests for Librarians, etc.).

 

Now, as to the Space Wolves, we know that Primaris Marines have been sent to the Chapters as reinforcements, and we also know that the technology to create new Primaris Marines has been shared with the Chapters - that was a huge part of the whole purpose of the Indomitus Crusade. So, for the Space Wolves, we can certainly expect the incorporation of Primaris Marines and Primaris units (Intercessors, Reivers, etc.) into all of the Great Companies, both as newish recruits and from experienced veterans of the Crusade, and we might even see that the two Great Companies lost during the events in the Fenris system and on Cadia were replaced entirely by Primaris Marines, because those were what were made immediately available when Lord Commander Guillimon delivered them. I would be frankly surprised if it were done any differently, and expect to see the same thing from the Blood Angels, who also took a huge hit to their Chapter, and needed Primaris reinforcements badly.

 

 

Finally, we've also been told that regular/traditional Astartes can go through a lengthy and difficult process to become Primaris. This is where the real mystery is. What does that remark from the designers really mean for us? I think we'll also learn a lot from what we see in the SM codex here, as well; if Sicarius Cato turns up with a new model, and is Primaris-sized, then we can expect something similar for us. Is it possible that someone like Ragnar decides to go through the process to upgrade? Of course it is. No doubt, GW is going to want to sell as many of these new boxes, as possible, and leveraging popular legacy characters is one way to do that. It might not come to fruition, but I certainly wouldn't rule it out. If it does happen, however, it won't be a major change for Ragnar's role in the Chapter. He'll just have a newer, bigger, model in the new Mk X Armour, and will get an extra Wound and Attack; that'd be the extent of it. He'll still be Lord of the Blackmanes, who'll have plenty of legacy packs of Hunters, Claws, and Fangs, that work alongside their new Intercessor, Hellblaster, and Inceptor brethren. Might not happen, but I wouldn't rule it out.

 

Just as likely, we'll just get a brand new Primaris Wolf Lord. He'll be a new guy that was elevated from somebody's Wolf Guard, is selected to step up and form a new Great Company to replace one of the two GCs that were recently lost in battle, and decides to give the upgrade a go. I'd frankly be surprised if we don't get a new character like this, at least in the fluff, even if he doesn't initially get a new model and rules to go with it. Otherwise it is a hugely wasted opportunity on GW's part. They're going to want to give us a reason to invest in those new Captain and/or Captain in Gravis Armour models, and pure Space Wolves won't have that without a Wolf Lord in at least the background to justify it.

 

I would hope that GW took a hard look at those two GC on the grand annulus that have been lost and leave them for the players to decide what they want to do with them with regard to unique GC. Whether that be a SW Primaris only GC, SW only GC, or a hybrid of the two GC. This would then allow the 13th to be truly for the 13th Company, lost GC, and those that have gone in their own and encourage "legal" GC for those players that desired them so.

 

Glad to see the Reivers get Outflank and Infiltration. Much happier then just seeing them with just the grab chutes. Being able to Outflank and putting them right where they can cause an opponent to direct attention to them instead of TWC or Wulfen will be invaluable and the grappling hooks allow them to basically bound through cover. And as I mentioned, those types of deployments speak more to terrororzing than what they appeared to have before.

 

Was hoping against hope that Intercessor would have had an option for a CCW, but oh well. With a Repulsor and Hellblasters alongside them, they are going to lay some serious midrange fire between our GC and LF or be a pain to get off objectives. Someone wants to last second rush charge an objective they are on? If the overmatch doesn't smoke them, the -2" Repulsor field probably will.

 

As do I expect a named SW Primaris to take the helm of the Wolfspear, with a model, I do not expect a model supported, Primaris Jarl. A named, but like many of our named jarls, no model. They will leave it up to the players to kitbash one with the Primaris captain stats just like they have done for almost all named jarls with the exception of just a couple. So Primaris successor will get a named and model supported Jarl, Primaris GC named Jarl , players get to make their own.

 

Still firmly in the no camp for Ragnar getting Primarisized, but mentioning Sicarius does make me think that they could go the route with another named existing Jarl, Erik Morkai!!! Now there is a thought! Erik Morkai takes the primarisroids and leades a GC of Reivers!!!!!! Round peg, round hole.

[Valerian]

One more thing to add: 

 

Intercessor Sergeants can take a Power Sword.

[Hellrender]

I have been thinking on adding primaris to my wolves for a while now. Andd here are a few ideas:

 

Intercessors with stalker bolters. For me these guys are just objective campers. Giving them nore range just makes sense.

 

Aggressors with bolters. Nkce anti horde depending on the volume ognshots though they compete with the following options.

 

Inceptors with bolters: mobile and a lot of shots. I think we can get enough static chaff guns from fw if you want that, but mobile volume of fire is hard to get.

 

Primaris dread with gatling fetish. Its like 3 assault cannons with similarish range for the price of 2ish razorbacks. And then some extra guns for flavour.

 

Now on to more anti elite stuff.

 

Hellblasters: i havent seen the stats for their other options yet, but as from dark imperium i dont think they win pver long fangs for me.

 

Inceptor with plasma guns. I like these. Havent seen the stats yet, but for me the deciding factor is going to be volume of fire and non overcharge stats. Look cool though.

 

Aggressors with flamers: altough they look really cool... The wolves already provide good options that fulfill similar roles. Lone wolves, wulven, speeders, terminators, etc.

 

For me personally i struggle with ranged elite shots and any anti horde. So the primaris dreadnought, inceptor of any variant and aggrrssor with bolters are interesting.

 

All in all i will most likely get 1 of each option at one point. ;)

 

Edited the inceptor stuff

Edited July 23, 2017 by Hellrender

[Valerian]

One quick correction, Hellrender, it's Inceptor, not Interceptor. Interceptors are a Grey Knights unit with personal teleporters.

[Leif Bearclaw]

 

He cleansed the geneseed from 10k years of degradation therefore "perfecting" it back to their original 30k state. IIRC there was some lore that stated 30k marines were better/bigger than 40k marines. This helped the Primaris become "better" fighters than their 40k marine counterparts.

 

 

Where is this '30k Marines were bigger/better' idea sourced from? I've only ever come across the idea that modern Astartes are inherently 'lesser' being espoused by highly arrogant Heresy-veteran Chaos Marines (and so hardly an impartial, objective source) who ignore the fact that modern loyalists appear fully capable of matching the supposedly superior (and warp buffed) old school Traitors in most sources.

[Rift Blade]

Wow. I'm out of it for a while & look what happens. Primaris Marines, 8 Ed.(actually knew that was coming) & even FW has updated some stuff already. Guess I'm going to spend a couple of evenings going through various threads & posts to try & get caught up. LOL!!!!

[Guest]

 

 

He cleansed the geneseed from 10k years of degradation therefore "perfecting" it back to their original 30k state. IIRC there was some lore that stated 30k marines were better/bigger than 40k marines. This helped the Primaris become "better" fighters than their 40k marine counterparts.

 

 

Where is this '30k Marines were bigger/better' idea sourced from? I've only ever come across the idea that modern Astartes are inherently 'lesser' being espoused by highly arrogant Heresy-veteran Chaos Marines (and so hardly an impartial, objective source) who ignore the fact that modern loyalists appear fully capable of matching the supposedly superior (and warp buffed) old school Traitors in most sources.

 

 

Dark Imperium.

 

Faux-Cawl states that the SM's are now performing peak performance since their gene-seed has been remove of mutation and degradation through the 10k years. Then goes on to state the BA and SW "flaws" were made by the Emperor and NOT removed. The goes on to state he has geneseed from the 9 traitor and 2 missing primarchs and wishes to put them into production with RG denies.

[Valerian]

But it doesn't say that the legion-era Marines were bigger than contemporary Marines. He's talking about clearing out mutations and restoring the function of geneseed that had become nonfunctional in several gene lines. For example, the Betcher's Gland had stopped working for some genelines, so he's restored that for everyone.

 

Edit: I guess I should add that Primaris aren't bigger because he's restored the purity of the geneseed; that just fixes the functionality issues and clears out the mutations. They're bigger because of his new process and three additional new implants, as far as I understand it.

Edited July 23, 2017 by Valerian

[Guest]

But it doesn't say that the legion-era Marines were bigger than contemporary Marines. He's talking about clearing out mutations and restoring the function of geneseed that had become nonfunctional in several gene lines. For example, the Betcher's Gland had stopped working for some genelines, so he's restored that for everyone.

 

Edit: I guess I should add that Primaris aren't bigger because he's restored the purity of the geneseed; that just fixes the functionality issues and clears out the mutations. They're bigger because of his new process and three additional new implants, as far as I understand it.

eh i guess wrong phrase but kind was going for "bigger, badder, better" since there are many mutations that have happened over the years.

[Guest Triszin]

so has anyone thought about how to include the repulsor into a wolves list?

 

I bought some reivers, and thinkthat a squad of 10 deep striking, fully kitted for supporting assaults should work great.

 

Besides reivers, I don't think I like any other primaris units so far, as they don't sit well with wolves tactics.

 

Unless I figure out how to use hellblasters to shift enemy units into the fire of long fangs

[Bloody Legionnaire]

Valerian, should Ragnar wind up opting to become "Primaris" I'll find it pretty funny the Lord of the Drop Pod Assault will no longer be able to ride in a Drop Pod.. 

 

I agree that the SM Codex should give us some clues.. I really wish it wasn't going to take GW so long to crank out our new Codex. I'm ready for all the madness to end already. 

[Guest]

The intercessors, yeah they have extra toughness and a extra wound, but just fall flat with no special weapons and no transports. They are immobile and while they would be great if they could get in land raiders/stormwolfs to hold objectives, being unable to restricts them greatly.

 

Reivers offer a support role with being able to get into position quickly and holding their own in a fight. They also have a range weapon making them more versatile than the intercessors.

[Grimtooth]

Repulsaor can carry 10, so a "mixed" of Hellblasters and Intercessors can objective sit pretty damn hard, while engaging multiple units at 30" with decent heavy support from the tank. Granted a metric ton of points, but Primaris ain't cheap.

The intercessors, yeah they have extra toughness and a extra wound, but just fall flat with no special weapons and no transports. They are immobile and while they would be great if they could get in land raiders/stormwolfs to hold objectives, being unable to restricts them greatly.

 

Reivers offer a support role with being able to get into position quickly and holding their own in a fight. They also have a range weapon making them more versatile than the intercessors.

Pretty sure you meant that Reivers have a melee weapon that makes them more versatile.

[Guest]

Repulsaor can carry 10, so a "mixed" of Hellblasters and Intercessors can objective sit pretty damn hard, while engaging multiple units at 30" with decent heavy support from the tank. Granted a metric ton of points, but Primaris ain't cheap.

The intercessors, yeah they have extra toughness and a extra wound, but just fall flat with no special weapons and no transports. They are immobile and while they would be great if they could get in land raiders/stormwolfs to hold objectives, being unable to restricts them greatly.

 

Reivers offer a support role with being able to get into position quickly and holding their own in a fight. They also have a range weapon making them more versatile than the intercessors.

Pretty sure you meant that Reivers have a melee weapon that makes them more versatile.

 

 

reivers default is melee weapons, they have a optional range weapon too.

[Valerian]

Intercessors don't get higher Toughness, it's Attacks and Wounds. Only Primaris in the Gravis version of Mk X Armour get the extra Toughness, and Intercessors aren't in Gravis.

[Grimtooth]

 

 

Repulsaor can carry 10, so a "mixed" of Hellblasters and Intercessors can objective sit pretty damn hard, while engaging multiple units at 30" with decent heavy support from the tank. Granted a metric ton of points, but Primaris ain't cheap.

The intercessors, yeah they have extra toughness and a extra wound, but just fall flat with no special weapons and no transports. They are immobile and while they would be great if they could get in land raiders/stormwolfs to hold objectives, being unable to restricts them greatly.

 

Reivers offer a support role with being able to get into position quickly and holding their own in a fight. They also have a range weapon making them more versatile than the intercessors.

Pretty sure you meant that Reivers have a melee weapon that makes them more versatile.

reivers default is melee weapons, they have a optional range weapon too.

But that is just a carbine isn't it? 24" range assault 2? I would think keeping the melee weapon and pistol would be more versatile than pushing the carbine onto them.

[Guest Triszin]

 

 

Repulsaor can carry 10, so a "mixed" of Hellblasters and Intercessors can objective sit pretty damn hard, while engaging multiple units at 30" with decent heavy support from the tank. Granted a metric ton of points, but Primaris ain't cheap.

The intercessors, yeah they have extra toughness and a extra wound, but just fall flat with no special weapons and no transports. They are immobile and while they would be great if they could get in land raiders/stormwolfs to hold objectives, being unable to restricts them greatly.

 

Reivers offer a support role with being able to get into position quickly and holding their own in a fight. They also have a range weapon making them more versatile than the intercessors.

Pretty sure you meant that Reivers have a melee weapon that makes them more versatile.

reivers default is melee weapons, they have a optional range weapon too.

But that is just a carbine isn't it? 24" range assault 2? I would think keeping the melee weapon and pistol would be more versatile than pushing the carbine onto them.

 

Im thinking 4 carbines might be a sweet spot, just enough ranged fire power to irritate targets a bit away

[Karhedron]

My Space Wolves have received their first squad of Primaris reinforcements. I am planning to walk them up the battlefield with Bjorn so that they can overcharge all day and reroll 1s. Given the mono-pose nature of the models I have built them vanilla rather then wolfifying them (I see them as new arrivals to the Fang). If I get more Primaris stuff in future, I may decorate them with some more appropriate pelts and tails.

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/monthly_07_2017/post-887-0-90724900-1501018033.jpg

[Grimtooth]

 

 

 

 

Repulsaor can carry 10, so a "mixed" of Hellblasters and Intercessors can objective sit pretty damn hard, while engaging multiple units at 30" with decent heavy support from the tank. Granted a metric ton of points, but Primaris ain't cheap.

The intercessors, yeah they have extra toughness and a extra wound, but just fall flat with no special weapons and no transports. They are immobile and while they would be great if they could get in land raiders/stormwolfs to hold objectives, being unable to restricts them greatly.

 

Reivers offer a support role with being able to get into position quickly and holding their own in a fight. They also have a range weapon making them more versatile than the intercessors.

Pretty sure you meant that Reivers have a melee weapon that makes them more versatile.

reivers default is melee weapons, they have a optional range weapon too.

But that is just a carbine isn't it? 24" range assault 2? I would think keeping the melee weapon and pistol would be more versatile than pushing the carbine onto them.

Im thinking 4 carbines might be a sweet spot, just enough ranged fire power to irritate targets a bit away

Yea, I don't want my Reivers at range taking pot shots. I need them up close and personal, tossing their special grenades in the units my Wulfen and/or TWC will be charging to kill Overwatch. Then they can join in the pokey stabby fun or through a wrench into Counterattack plans.

[Filius]

I'm not sure, how much of the new Codex Vanialla Marines is published / leaked by now. Buuut … if I am not mistaken, it doesn't contain primarised named Characters, right? At leas they have not been mentioned in the Warhammer Community Articles. I would speculate from this, that we will not see a primarised Ragnar anytime soon …

 

Plus: The current Primaris Line looks now pretty much complete (maybe just bikes missing). I don't think, we will see many Primaris Units until most of the Codices are published.

 

P.S.: And now, that I wrote it down, it got me thinking … if Games Workshop really doesn't primarise the Character Modells, then it get's more unlikely that they are about to phase out the old-scale-non-primaris Marines …

 

Edit: Added P.S.

Edited July 27, 2017 by Filius

[Karhedron]

P.S.: And now, that I wrote it down, it got me thinking … if Games Workshop really doesn't primarise the Character Modells, then it get's more unlikely that they are about to phase out the old-scale-non-primaris Marines …

I don't think non-Primaris Marines will be going away for a long time. If you look at the new units, they have made a big effort not to create Primaris equivalents of existing units. The Jump Packers are mobile fire-support rather than assault. The Aggressors are short-ranged and also pack a punch in combat. The Assault troops specialise in infiltration and terror rather than simply twirling lots of power weapons about. Intercessors lacks the weapons flexibility of tactical squads. The only vehicle is an expensive floating IFV with no cheap transports or MBTs.

 

As it stands, a pure Primaris army is possible but would be difficult. It lacks dedicated long-range heavy weapons like Devastators. It has little in the way of Lascannons or meltas to threaten heavy vehicles and monsters and has no fast CC troops. Maybe this will change in the future but for now, GW seem to have made a big effort to avoid obsoleting any existing Marine units.

[Hellrender]

So aggressors. Been thinking a lot about them since yesterday. I want a unit or 2 to accomoany bjorn as they are quite decently priced. But i wonder how they fit in my great company.

 

Wishlisting a bit, i hope we have ways to give certain primaris certain keywords. Aggressors being wolf guard, hellblasters long fangs, intercessors grey hunters..

 

Aggressors have build in powerfists so i think they are decently wolfy enough. The hellblasters would (wishlisting here) get theblong fang special rule too ;) and intercessors access to chainswords.

 

But in a more practical note, with what we have. I will do thebfollowing:

 

Aggressors are a new unit in my great company woth its own designation. Wolf guard in status really.. But seperated from their wolf guard brothers like thunderwolf cavalry.

 

Intercessors are grey hunters with scout mentality. I will run them only with stalker boltrifles to make that work. The other variants could really use a ccw.

 

Reivers will be wolf scouts with a new twist. No real explanation needed.

 

Hellblasters. These are tougher. Long fangs are the space wolf heavy support units but they arent really long fangs. Any ideas?

[Wolf_Lord_Hardrada]

Hellblasters are the only unit that's really tempted me so far, I seem to be heading in a very plasma heavy direction so if I get some they will be used as front line fire support, letting the plasma-fangs sit back at range and not draw so much fire. If the hellblasters draw fire, eh they have two wounds and at least that means my Claws will get shot at less....

[crd26a]

I like the look of the Aggressors but want the flame gauntlets to be helfrost gauntlets instead for the SW.  Will see what / if they customize them for any of the SW, more than likely the first unit I'll pick up of the primaris