Primaris Marines in Black Library

[Loesh]

I mean really, all that's changed is we get to see a bunch of new story arcs and possibilities within the setting for everybody. I look forward to, in particular, the hints about Geneseed instability impacting Primaris marines on a more extreme level. More so reading about it when one of them suddenly falls to the Black Rage and sprouts wings in the middle of a battlefield.

 

Woops.

[Kelborn]

That's why I believe that we might see some traitor / blackshield Primaris, succumbing to their flaws and later chaos, leading to their ascendance as new, bigger possessed, rivaling the Ghal Vorbak. :)

[grailkeeper]

That's why I believe that we might see some traitor / blackshield Primaris, succumbing to their flaws and later chaos, leading to their ascendance as new, bigger possessed, rivaling the Ghal Vorbak.

That and people definitely will want Chaos Primaris marines and GW won't turn down a chance to sell more toys.

[veterannoob]

I wouldn't be surprised if it stops being Warhammer 40000 and becomes Warhammer Dark Millinnium or Storm of Chaos or something

Warhammer: Age of Guilliman

"As the Avenging Son returns from lost history, the emergence of the Primaris Space Marines heralds in a new age of the Imperium.

Each squad of the Imperial *blam* Astra Ministorum gets a kitten, the Adeptus Astartes are granted nights and weekends off.

This is a new age, an age of Heroes, an age of Hope"

sold with Age of Guilliman Tzeentch as a patron

'I'm not going to let my vision of 40K circle entirely around the metaplot of what the reborn Guilliman is doing in his fleet. That's practically irrelevant to the galaxy. It's the Studio's storyline and that's all good, but it doesn't define or eradicate 30 years of 40K for me. It's just one story in the setting. The setting itself hasn't changed all that much. It's just difficult to see that at the dawn of a new edition when the loudest voices right now are the advertising engines and the Studio excited that it gets to have a storyline.'

-

A D-B sorry, i'm not trying to be rude, but KIND OF WHAT? How can that be irrelevant to the Galaxy?

'The setting itself hasn't changed all that much' - kind of changed and big time. Hundreds of thousands of SM and CSM has appeared out of thin air - storm bisected the galaxy?

Primarchs everywhere?

In all sincerety that's bigger changes then the scope of the First Black Crusade

Because the setting is still the setting. You're mistaking metaplot (a new and temporary storyline) as the setting. It's not - though it's totally easy to do. I'd argue we all do it, at times, in any IP.

In Vampire: the Masquerade, you played a vampire beholden to the Six Traditions of your undead society: the Camarilla, the aristocracy of the night. The most important was the Masquerade, called in older times The Silence of the Blood, whereby your overarching personal responsibility was to ensure that you never broke the Masquerade, and that vampires remained unseen and unknown by humanity. Violations of the Masquerade were punishable by Final Death. Vampiric society tended to focus around cities, where the human herd was at its densest. Vampiric "Princes" ruled these domains in accordance with the Six Traditions and the immense power within their blood, served in turn by lesser-ranked vampires such as a Primogen Council, a Scourge, and so on. Sacred ground, where no vampire was permitted to harm another, was named Elysium. Only there was a vampire truly safe from the endless, deathless machinations of his kind. There were several clans and lesser bloodlines of vampires, but they were each bound by the same constraints and possessed similar gifts - each of them would burn in sunlight, each of them had a supernatural fear of fire, each of them possessed fangs and required human blood to survive. And each of them also possessed several vampiric powers called Disciplines, as well as being preternaturally able to regenerate damage, move faster than their physical form should allow, hit harder, and - most of all - they never aged. The greatest struggle for every vampire, however, was The Beast Within. Inside every vampire was the lurking presence of a degenerative monstrousness, the madness that would set in if they killed without remorse and began to lose touch with their humanity.

That was the setting.

Sometimes clans and bloodlines would join or leave the Camarilla. Sometimes vampiric elders of immense power would rise up and do things. Sometimes they wouldn't. Sometimes clans would go to war with each other in one country, and do nothing of the kind in another. Several famous "named" characters ran around doing things that served as examples to players of what their characters might do in their own games.

That was the metaplot.

The events of the metaplot never changed anything fundamental in the setting. Those events never took place on many, many tables.

The metaplot is examples of events, storyline stuff for people to follow if they're interested, and stuff that changes the surface. But nothing fundamental changed. The Beast Within never went away. The game was always about the struggle to balance your own eroding humanity with the fact you survive on human blood. You still had fangs and drank blood and had Disciplines. The default society was always the Camarilla. Elysium was still maintained by the Princes of the cities. You still burned in sunlight.

The Imperium is still a place of insane gothic baroque ignorance. The Imperium still requires warp travel to get from A to B. Space Marines, the Adeptus Astartes, are still the defenders of humanity alongside the Imperial Guard. Primarchs, to 99% of the Imperium, are either a fiction or a myth. The Emperor is still worshipped as a Sun God on many worlds, and a pantheon of ancestor spirits forming one Great Soul on other worlds, and the Machine God on other worlds. Inquisitors still investigate in the labyrinthine madness under the Imperium's skin. Chaos Cults still rise and fall in the underhives. The tyranids are still coming.

I could go on, and on, and on, and on. It's not even about "ignoring what you don't like", which is the usual and totally understandable defence. It's not even necessary though: Warhammer 40,000 itself - the setting - just isn't changing. A few details are. I like some of them. I don't like others. But it doesn't change what Warhammer 40,000 is. I'm not going to run away in sadness and believe there are no more stories to tell just because some named characters I do or don't like have come back. 90% of the people I play with and talk to about the lore and hang out with don't like special characters anyway, and never use them. We don't play the Studio's wars; we never have. We play our own wars. The books I like to read (and, most often, write) don't touch on the dealings of famous people in the Dark Millennium - and when they do it's rarely from their perspectives, and presents them in new lights, through other eyes.

So, like I said. Nothing's really changed.

Aww, @Aaron, pulling the V:tM out on us. Consumed my life (and a chunk of the French Quarter in New Orleans) for 13 years. You had me at "Vampire." Great analogy there.

[Mellow]

The Emperor is still worshipped as a Sun God on many worlds, and a pantheon of ancestor spirits forming one Great Soul on other worlds, and the Machine God on other worlds.

Due to this coming from AD-B I'm taking the underlined bit as Canon until a Novel explicitly states otherwise.

[Kelborn]

So the recent Q&A session of WarhammerTV stated that entire chapters and already existing characters can be upgraded into Primaris Marines.

 

Rather a slow proccess of exchanging the old minis, while keeping our beloved characters. Think that this is a better and more organic way of dealing with this development. Now I'm even more curious about the interaction of both, old and new Marines; the process of becoming a Primaris and so on and what consequences this might have, etc. etc. etc.

 

oh and before I forget

 

Atia mentioned that much of what we know about Horus vs Big E might get retconned.

[Mellow]

What's WarhammerTV? Where's all this lore coming from?

[veterannoob]

https://www.facebook.com/WarhammerTVteam/videos/vb.230219510706368/379597632435221/?type=2&theater today's latest video Q&A. 

[grailkeeper]

The Emperor is still worshipped as a Sun God on many worlds, and a pantheon of ancestor spirits forming one Great Soul on other worlds, and the Machine God on other worlds.

Due to this coming from AD-B I'm taking the underlined bit as Canon until a Novel explicitly states otherwise.

There's an old story which mentions a planet where they believe the Emperor is a god who throws his cloak over the world at night, and the stars are the lights shining through the stitching.

Actually that brings me on to my own theory of how the Ecclesiarchy adapt beliefs into their own when a world is conquered. The ancient Romans used to take whatever native beliefs were in a region they had conquered and meld it with their own. Often a local god would be meshed into a roman god where possible. "Right your old gods were actually our gods all along, you can still worship them- just send us tribute when we want it and everything will be fine". This ensured a smooth transition to Roman rule and often meant the old belief system would be a helpful local civil service. (if you want an example of this going wrong, look at Pontius Pilate and the Jews).

The ancient Christians did something similar. A lot of Jesus' life, like his birth and death, is basically lifted from the Roman God Mithras. A lot of Saints here in Ireland are ancient gods given a Christian gloss. Saint Brigid, our patron saint, was the Celtic Goddess Brigid. (One of her miracles was turning a lake into beer, the early Christians knew how to get the attention of the Irish)

I can easily see the Imperium doing the same with local gods and spirits. "That goddess of Wisdom you worship- Athena? She's actually our Saint Euphrati Keeler, tell you what- why don't you call her Athena Keeler for now. That god of the forge Hephastus? Why that's Vulkan Hephastus- did you know he was one of the Emperor's sons?"Over time local faiths will get slowly adapted into the mainstream Imperial Creed.

If the Imperium just wanted to burn the unbelievers rather than conquer them Exterminatus would be faster and cheaper. Redemptionists are a minority in the Ecclesiarchy and are outlaws on many worlds, like Necromunda. The Ecclesiarchy didn't get to be one of the most powerful factions in the Imperium by being stupid and must have encountered stuff like this a thousand times a thousand times. I'd say its caused some Missionaries headaches down through the millenia. "This winged Fish thing that protects sailors at harvest time, that's actually....sweet Emperor what even comes close... err Sanguinius."

[Marshal Rohr]

Marines being upgraded to Primaris marines is far more palatable that just 'Primaris everywhere all of a sudden'.

[grailkeeper]

Marines being upgraded to Primaris marines is far more palatable that just 'Primaris everywhere all of a sudden'.

 

Its the only way that makes sense to me, other than they have been kept in S=stasis by Cawl.

[Marshal Rohr]

They need to build in some resiliency for the upcoming discontinuation of normal space marines. Like write in that every chapter is incrementally upgrading or something. So that in five to ten years when the elimination of oldmarines is finished the advent of the upgraded marines can be pushed back or written out all together to cover the rescale of the model line.

[Mellow]

They say that existing chapters Marines can be upgraded to primaris Marines using this new technology.

 

So it's easy to see how the old ones will get phased out being that no marine lives forever despite being functionally immortal.

 

It would be interesting to see whether this closes the gap between the Astartes and the Custodians strength and size wise where Astartes are generally seven and a half feet and Custodians are generally nine and a half feet tall.

 

It would also be great for ADB to write about one of the Astartes going through the transformation process from existing size to primaris noticing how they are stronger and bigger and whether it starts giving them a god complex or whether they start getting outcast by their old school brothers

[Loesh]

One of the scenarios i'm most interested in as well is what happens to Chapters who don't get access to Primaris, because if it's anything like with the Marines Malovolent where they are starved of resources for a particular disfavor then it will give the imperium even more power over it's Astartes. Groups without the Primaris marines and their associated equipment might be poorly tooled to handle the new threats to the galaxy, and might be a way for the imperium to 'remove' certain elements they dislike.

[b1soul]

With SM getting slapped silly by Custodes and TW during the GC and HH...I don't see the big deal about super-SM in 40K

 

That said, this could almost be like Soldier, the Paul Anderson movie haha

[Mellow]

I have come to the conclusion that Atartes are turning into Orks.

 

Orks get bigger and more powerful

 

Same thing here obviously!

 

Big is best!

[hopkins]

 

Atia mentioned that much of what we know about Horus vs Big E might get retconned.

 

high lord laurie mentioned that months ago

now everyone is losing their shizzle because atia says it

[Kelborn]

Well, Laurie did wrote that in this subforum.

 

Atia posted it on her blog. Most of the community rather reads her blog than a single post within this subforum. No surprise that everyone goes nuts now.

 

Some over here didn't noticed about the Primaris Marines either.

 

Now we're all on the same level of knowing nothing at all. :P

[Noserenda]

Didnt Andy Hoare debunk that on FB though? Or at least said Atia was trolling? 

[Sandlemad]

 

 

Atia mentioned that much of what we know about Horus vs Big E might get retconned.

 

high lord laurie mentioned that months ago

now everyone is losing their shizzle because atia says it

 

 

It was mentioned previously in the context of BL 'shading in' the details of big events. Like how we didn't know about the Alpha Legion's first attack on Pluto because previously there was no more detail than 'and then the traitors came to the solar system'.

 

Rightly or wrongly, mention it in the context of Sanguinius coming back and yeah, folks are going to lose their shizzle.

[Mellow]

What's the link for the atia blog about the Horus fight?

[Kelborn]

Can't copy it while at work. Have a look in the N&R subforum. There's a already closed thread dealing with this.

[HeritorA]

A D-B sorry, i'm not trying to be rude, but KIND OF WHAT? How can that be irrelevant to the Galaxy?

'The setting itself hasn't changed all that much' - kind of changed and big time. Hundreds of thousands of SM and CSM has appeared out of thin air - storm bisected the galaxy?

Primarchs everywhere?

In all sincerety that's bigger changes then the scope of the First Black Crusade

Because we aren't talking about that holistically, we're talking about Roboute specifically, and even with Roboute on Terra and restructuring it is largely irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. The Imperium was going to have a shake up with the galaxy splitting half anyways, and as soon as Cadia was destroyed the other Primarchs were always going to manifest. Hell, if Roboute never came out of hiding, who is to say Cawl wouldn't of unchained the project anyway when times were desperate enough? But Roboute himself and his little crusade to change the galaxy is, ultimately, small potatos. Same with Magnus, or Angron, or the Lion reawakening, all of them are just cogs in a bigger machine that's the 40k setting which...indeed...hasn't changed much, this is still about the dying of the light.

It is so stupidly, stupidly huge that even something with as much influence as a Primarch is still only impacting a relatively small part of the galaxy.

Kind of what again - 'Hell, if Roboute never came out of hiding, who is to say Cawl wouldn't of unchained the project anyway when times were desperate enough?' - It's vise versa, if Cawl never came out of hiding - Roboute would never have been 'ressurrected', lol

'Same with Magnus, or Angron, or the Lion reawakening, all of them are just cogs in a bigger machine that's the 40k setting which...indeed...hasn't changed much, this is still about the dying of the light.'

- with all the Primaris Marines - hundred of thousands of SM from thin air and SHIPS to drive them all to destination - it's kinda feels of like a renaissance!

[HeritorA]

 

 

Atia mentioned that much of what we know about Horus vs Big E might get retconned.

 

high lord laurie mentioned that months ago

now everyone is losing their shizzle because atia says it

 

In that case and Sanguinius ressurrection  I personally know dozens of W40K fans and players who will sell their armies and went to play Warmachine.

[Loesh]

Kind of what again - 'Hell, if Roboute never came out of hiding, who is to say Cawl wouldn't of unchained the project anyway when times were desperate enough?' - It's vise versa, if Cawl never came out of hiding - Roboute would never have been 'ressurrected', lol

'Same with Magnus, or Angron, or the Lion reawakening, all of them are just cogs in a bigger machine that's the 40k setting which...indeed...hasn't changed much, this is still about the dying of the light.'

- with all the Primaris Marines - hundred of thousands of SM from thin air and SHIPS to drive them all to destination - it's kinda feels of like a renaissance!

Even if Roboute never left his mini-empire and stuck with the Ultramarines in spite of everything, Cawl would of likely still introduced Primaris into their general forces with the empire at risk of....well...extinction. Honestly speaking I don't even think the Primaris themselves are that huge of a deal: They are just one of a multitude of tools the Imperium will unveil as desperation will set in, and they may not even hold back the darkness with Xenos and Chaos forces bringing their own ancient technologies and weapons to bear. To me they are just one element of a empire that spans millions of worlds, just one of a couple symbols of how bad the Warhammer verse has gotten.