HeritorA Posted May 19, 2017 Share Posted May 19, 2017 Kind of what again - 'Hell, if Roboute never came out of hiding, who is to say Cawl wouldn't of unchained the project anyway when times were desperate enough?' - It's vise versa, if Cawl never came out of hiding - Roboute would never have been 'ressurrected', lol 'Same with Magnus, or Angron, or the Lion reawakening, all of them are just cogs in a bigger machine that's the 40k setting which...indeed...hasn't changed much, this is still about the dying of the light.' - with all the Primaris Marines - hundred of thousands of SM from thin air and SHIPS to drive them all to destination - it's kinda feels of like a renaissance! Even if Roboute never left his mini-empire and stuck with the Ultramarines in spite of everything, Cawl would of likely still introduced Primaris into their general forces with the empire at risk of....well...extinction. Honestly speaking I don't even think the Primaris themselves are that huge of a deal: They are just one of a multitude of tools the Imperium will unveil as desperation will set in, and they may not even hold back the darkness with Xenos and Chaos forces bringing their own ancient technologies and weapons to bear. To me they are just one element of a empire that spans millions of worlds, just one of a couple symbols of how bad the Warhammer verse has gotten. Primarchs had a bigger impact than you think. Invasion of DG with Mortarion leading it will do 'catastrophe of Biblical proportions' to half of the Imperium. DG without Mortarion would be stopped more quickly and probably engulf only several sectors. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333661-primaris-marines-in-black-library/page/4/#findComment-4747511 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted May 19, 2017 Share Posted May 19, 2017 Kind of what again - 'Hell, if Roboute never came out of hiding, who is to say Cawl wouldn't of unchained the project anyway when times were desperate enough?' - It's vise versa, if Cawl never came out of hiding - Roboute would never have been 'ressurrected', lol 'Same with Magnus, or Angron, or the Lion reawakening, all of them are just cogs in a bigger machine that's the 40k setting which...indeed...hasn't changed much, this is still about the dying of the light.' - with all the Primaris Marines - hundred of thousands of SM from thin air and SHIPS to drive them all to destination - it's kinda feels of like a renaissance! Even if Roboute never left his mini-empire and stuck with the Ultramarines in spite of everything, Cawl would of likely still introduced Primaris into their general forces with the empire at risk of....well...extinction. Honestly speaking I don't even think the Primaris themselves are that huge of a deal: They are just one of a multitude of tools the Imperium will unveil as desperation will set in, and they may not even hold back the darkness with Xenos and Chaos forces bringing their own ancient technologies and weapons to bear. To me they are just one element of a empire that spans millions of worlds, just one of a couple symbols of how bad the Warhammer verse has gotten. You're counting on the dichotomy between oldmarines and sigmarines to remain the same, and old marines to remain a fixture of the setting. The Primaris Marines are a rescale dressed as a reboot. Eventually only Primaris Marines will be available, and at that point there will be no further inclusion of oldmarines in the lore. Primaris Marines are a stop gap story, not the end story. Like a beta phase or prequel. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333661-primaris-marines-in-black-library/page/4/#findComment-4747515 Share on other sites More sharing options...
A D-B Posted May 19, 2017 Share Posted May 19, 2017 Atia mentioned that much of what we know about Horus vs Big E might get retconned. high lord laurie mentioned that months ago now everyone is losing their shizzle because atia says it It was mentioned previously in the context of BL 'shading in' the details of big events. Like how we didn't know about the Alpha Legion's first attack on Pluto because previously there was no more detail than 'and then the traitors came to the solar system'. Rightly or wrongly, mention it in the context of Sanguinius coming back and yeah, folks are going to lose their shizzle. Exactly. And Atia's comment seemed more like a general mention (it was a side-comment on a post, not even an actual posted rumour). No one's retconning Horus and Sanguinius. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333661-primaris-marines-in-black-library/page/4/#findComment-4747641 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mellow Posted May 19, 2017 Share Posted May 19, 2017 Who cares? What will be will be. We only have to wait for BL to release a Novel of any actual events in order to make it all make sense. Plus it will be the authors jobs to make things plausible. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333661-primaris-marines-in-black-library/page/4/#findComment-4747660 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knockagh Posted May 19, 2017 Share Posted May 19, 2017 Definitely awaiting an amazing reworking of Dr Frankenstein here. I want to know the origins, the secrets. Who worked in these labs, who guarded them? Did anyone try to enter them and meet an untimely demise? Were genuine imperial agents killed to stop them finding out what was going on?? Who knew what, is what I'm after, who kept the secrets! As for the marines themselves I'm probably interested in how they will interact with ordinary marines. I imagine their ego is going to take a bashing, they are quite proud folks. So long as we aren't subjected to a bigger battle book with bigger guns and bigger explosions all made by bigger men. Anything else I'm pretty stoked about! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333661-primaris-marines-in-black-library/page/4/#findComment-4747761 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sete Posted May 19, 2017 Share Posted May 19, 2017 Since the Emperor body is broken he will reincarnate in Sanguinius body. Muahahah Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333661-primaris-marines-in-black-library/page/4/#findComment-4747827 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mellow Posted May 19, 2017 Share Posted May 19, 2017 He can just make a new body out of Warp energy however due to the Warp dampeners He will only be able to manifest every so often and for limited periods of time. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333661-primaris-marines-in-black-library/page/4/#findComment-4747953 Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted May 21, 2017 Share Posted May 21, 2017 All sides are escalating...so it doesn't mean any side is closer to victory The ultimate goal of Chaos is endless turmoil...and chaos, not the extinction of the IoM Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333661-primaris-marines-in-black-library/page/4/#findComment-4749057 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kastor Krieg Posted May 21, 2017 Share Posted May 21, 2017 Since the Emperor body is broken he will reincarnate in Sanguinius body. Muahahah Watch what you are saying. Sanguinius was described as the closest of the Primarchs to his Father, in essence. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333661-primaris-marines-in-black-library/page/4/#findComment-4749224 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mellow Posted May 21, 2017 Share Posted May 21, 2017 Got to be careful with His Holy essence getting everywhere. ... I wonder if He used that as a chat up line back in the day Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333661-primaris-marines-in-black-library/page/4/#findComment-4749252 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelborn Posted May 21, 2017 Share Posted May 21, 2017 Since the Emperor body is broken he will reincarnate in Sanguinius body. Muahahah If your joke comes true, I'll travel to Portugal, find you and slap you with a glove. ^^ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333661-primaris-marines-in-black-library/page/4/#findComment-4749253 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sete Posted May 21, 2017 Share Posted May 21, 2017 Then we will have a couple of beers and discuss the :cussty state of the fluff ;) But with this new Eldar god shenanigans, I m seriously expecting to see the Emperor eventually. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333661-primaris-marines-in-black-library/page/4/#findComment-4749264 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carach Posted May 21, 2017 Share Posted May 21, 2017 well you say that but the eldar godlings are weak as the race is weak - their god's power is tied to their race is it not? Daemon princes appearing, and their brothers the primarchs, are more of an even thing than having the Emps come back with all his plans Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333661-primaris-marines-in-black-library/page/4/#findComment-4749552 Share on other sites More sharing options...
grailkeeper Posted May 21, 2017 Author Share Posted May 21, 2017 We are getting the Emperor in 30k. There's already a character whose rules state he must be your leader unless a bunch of other named Characters are there, one of which is the big E. I wonder what his rules and stats will be. 10s across the board and if he dies you lose automatically and can never play Imperials again. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333661-primaris-marines-in-black-library/page/4/#findComment-4749683 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Closet Skeleton Posted May 21, 2017 Share Posted May 21, 2017 The ancient Christians did something similar. A lot of Jesus' life, like his birth and death, is basically lifted from the Roman God Mithras. A lot of Saints here in Ireland are ancient gods given a Christian gloss. Saint Brigid, our patron saint, was the Celtic Goddess Brigid. (One of her miracles was turning a lake into beer, the early Christians knew how to get the attention of the Irish) SF writers steal most of their better ideas from history. No surprise there. Every missionary adapts the message to the audience. The first thing the Jesuits did when they got to China was write one of the first modern ethnography and work out how to make Catholicism compatible with Confucianism while conversely, D.T. Suzuki deliberately packaged his English translations of Buddhist writings to appeal to the disaffected teenage children of 1960s American protestants by downplaying all the aspects that would be too familiar to them. The Romans were more interested in porting over political institutions. Religion just happened to be inseparable from political and social life. Gods overlapped with each other all the time in the ancient world. There's a Assyrian Poem where the god Asshur is described by stating that each of his body parts is an older Akkadian deity. Egyptian religion was full of deity names with hyphens in them, gods who lost popularity often got absorbed into other cults. Sometimes they just had a god depicted wearing a crown traditionally associated with another god to state that "my god stole your god's hat". Its not just "your gods are our gods so lets be friends", there's actually a very violent statement being made when an ancient person said that one god is just an aspect of another deity. It was just as often a case of deliberate one one-upmanship as it was of mere translation. Saying that a local British deity was a incarnation of Minerva was also a great excuse for Roman craftsman to sell more Minerva statues and not have to bother learning new iconography. No surviving text describes the life of the God Mithras and none of the artistic depictions mirror any event in the Gospels so as far as anyone can prove there's no connection at all outside of imaginative books from the 19th century. All we know about Mithras is that he was born from a rock before the beginning of time and created the world by killing a bull. The oldest mentions of Jesus pre-date the oldest evidence of Mithras worship, Mithraism was a very late development in Roman religion. The only parts of Jesus' life that are obviously borrowed from older sources are the ones that were common literary cliches that showed up all the time in biographies of the day so its impossible to point to one figure and say 'that's where the idea came from'. Its very common for urban legends to get recycled with the characters updated to whatever celebrity is controversial in the press this month. While a Irish goddess and saint appear to share the name Brigid the idea that they're derived from one another is basically speculation. In the 19th century, a lot of folklorists seized upon any obscure reference and basically invented elaborate recreations of pagan practices by backforming Christian practices and then used circular logic to 'prove' that the Christian practices were derivative. The origin of various stories is very messy and some of this sort of thing happened but so much rampant speculation taking the idea further than the evidence can support has been produced that its really hard to tell the plausible theories from the imaginative nonsense. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333661-primaris-marines-in-black-library/page/4/#findComment-4749754 Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeritorA Posted May 22, 2017 Share Posted May 22, 2017 Since the Emperor body is broken he will reincarnate in Sanguinius body. Muahahah Absolutely horrible step to take. Some fans will simply drop warhammer40k. 'SF writers steal most of their better ideas from history. No surprise there. Every missionary adapts the message to the audience.' - well that's how writing battle sci-fi works in general Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333661-primaris-marines-in-black-library/page/4/#findComment-4750076 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mellow Posted May 22, 2017 Share Posted May 22, 2017 We are getting the Emperor in 30k. There's already a character whose rules state he must be your leader unless a bunch of other named Characters are there, one of which is the big E. I wonder what his rules and stats will be. 10s across the board and if he dies you lose automatically and can never play Imperials again. Oh yeah. 10's across the board. You know! ... except if there was a "understanding people" or "team skills" stat. That would be like -4 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333661-primaris-marines-in-black-library/page/4/#findComment-4750269 Share on other sites More sharing options...
hopkins Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 ok, we are in good hands Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333661-primaris-marines-in-black-library/page/4/#findComment-4751009 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mellow Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 Wait. Is that an actual Novel that's going to cover these recent fluff additions? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333661-primaris-marines-in-black-library/page/4/#findComment-4751129 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkChaplain Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 That name on the cover/spine is going to be the reason why I'm giving this a try. If Haley can't open this new can of worms properly, nobody can. Last up, for you Warhammer 40,000 fiction fans out there, we have the Dark Imperium novel from Guy Haley. This will be the first Black Library book (of many), set after the events of the Gathering Storm and starring the Primarch Roboute Guilliman, the new Primaris Space Marines and their mortal (and in some cases immortal) enemies, the Death Guard. So no Gathering Storm coverage as is, but post-GS as a tie-in to the box set. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333661-primaris-marines-in-black-library/page/4/#findComment-4751136 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelborn Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 Haven't read anything from Guy until now but Pharos will be next on my to do list after finishing Ians Deathwatch. Heard good thing about him so I'll give it a try. :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333661-primaris-marines-in-black-library/page/4/#findComment-4751501 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petitioner's City Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 Her Peturabo is very good! So this seems much better. I wonder if it is a direct tie-in, novelising the box, or if it ia more of a side story about the context of the box Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333661-primaris-marines-in-black-library/page/4/#findComment-4751533 Share on other sites More sharing options...
veterannoob Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 So glad it's Guy. Dante is amazing and recommended. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333661-primaris-marines-in-black-library/page/4/#findComment-4751596 Share on other sites More sharing options...
grailkeeper Posted May 23, 2017 Author Share Posted May 23, 2017 Never read any of his work but saw him talk once and he seemed like a nice guy, even if know one knew who he was. That said- those aren't Primaris Marines on the cover. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333661-primaris-marines-in-black-library/page/4/#findComment-4751661 Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeritorA Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 That name on the cover/spine is going to be the reason why I'm giving this a try. If Haley can't open this new can of worms properly, nobody can. Last up, for you Warhammer 40,000 fiction fans out there, we have the Dark Imperium novel from Guy Haley. This will be the first Black Library book (of many), set after the events of the Gathering Storm and starring the Primarch Roboute Guilliman, the new Primaris Space Marines and their mortal (and in some cases immortal) enemies, the Death Guard. So no Gathering Storm coverage as is, but post-GS as a tie-in to the box set. On that I do agree. If he fail - it's simply cement that new lore is a piece of garbage (which Gathering storm is) Her Peturabo is very good! So this seems much better. I wonder if it is a direct tie-in, novelising the box, or if it ia more of a side story about the context of the box Tie-in for 8th edition and Dark Imperium starter set for sure. I do not expect any miraculous 'awesome' plotline or storytelling. So glad it's Guy. Dante is amazing and recommended. Maybe, just maybe he would be able to do it right. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333661-primaris-marines-in-black-library/page/4/#findComment-4751709 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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