Eye of Medusa

[Morovir]

What do people think of this book? I think Guymer does a good job of tying together the old and new lores of the Iron Hands, including characters from both Clan Raukaan and Wrath of Iron, and expanding the new lore that was laid down in Clan Raukaan, whilst also adding some new elements of his own, my favourite being:

 

The Helfathers, guardians of the Iron Council. Massively bulky figures in Terminator armour, armed with a heavy flamer, assault cannon and a cyclone missile launcher. They are heavily implied to be a form of AI, or other unliving technology.

[DarkChaplain]

Possibly related to

The Keys of Hel?

[Morovir]

I don't think so. As >> RESTRICTED DATA >> sees them:

">> RESTRICTED DATA >> had the dread sensation that what he was seeing was a breed of foe that physical weapons could not destroy. He realised then what it was that had always unsettled him, every time he had laid eyes on the Iron Council's sinister guardians. They were empty. As if there was nothing inside them that was alive at all."

[Nazguire]

Still sounds like the Keys of Hel to me - they were undead Iron Hands. AI is possible I guess, but this sorta ties down the Keys of Hel technology quite well.

[Iron Hands Fanatic]

Yeah from the name and that line, Keys of Hel seem very viable - if they were automata, they wouldn't be made in the image of Marines, as their Legion incarnation used automata extensively & wouldn't likely try to hide their nature. They wouldn't go for AI, because they have close ties to the Mechanicum & Medusa's own culture is derived from Mars, who view AI as an abomination. I suppose Battle-brothers who've completely eradicated their biological components & uploaded their consciousness into a purely cybernetic body is feasible, but by that stage they'd far more likely have been gifted the honour of interment in a Dreadnought Sarcophagus.

 

So I'd put money on the Keys of Hel, which is rad - it's some really interesting 30k lore and seeing that aspect of the Iron Hands carried forwards into 40k in some regard is a great touch.

[b1soul]

...so which forbidden technology are we speculating is employed by the Helfathers?

 

Cybernetic resurrection?

[Iron Hands Fanatic]

Yeah, that's the way I'd lean - "foe that physical weapons could not destroy" is evocative of the cybernetically resurrected host described attacking Xana in FW's Retribution

 

As the Clan Council is kind of the spiritual and cultural core of the Chapter, the idea of long dead Iron Hands heroes standing in their defence, in utter denial of death is pretty cool

[Mellow]

Iron Hands using Necron technology to ensure their consciousness is preserved.

[HeritorA]

So far (80 pages in) - the book does not picked my interest. Nothing worthy is happening, actually in general it's more like IH works instead of book with some interesting plot.

Plus another Guymer book which is hard to follow. 'Last son of Dorn' was more easy to read and follow, than this one.

Plus Iron Hands are going into Deus Ex territory all the way

[Sandlemad]

About half way through and this is pretty good. Decent prose, not ADB or Wraight but better than the typical bolter-porn. Few scenes of battle so far and the plot is a lot less focused on Themmos than the blurb makes it seem. Much more about the inner workings of the IH chapter and an interesting portrayal of Medusa.

 

It's probably the most brutal and near-sadistic portrayal of the IH so far, even more so than Wrath of Iron. There's an emphasis on the strong being strong alone, even at the expense of brotherhood. They treat their serfs like absolute dirt. The clan-companies are all a little bit distinct, certainly much more so than a codex company, but also have associated stereotypes discussed by the rival battle-brothers which are recognisably not quite accurate portrayals; the brutes of this clan, the dull automata of that clan, etc.

 

One of the POV characters, a low-is ranking techpriest assistant to the dreadnought waking processes, is much more relatable and human than the IH. She's still religious and recognisably grown up in the Cult Mechanicus but has hopes and wants, gets annoyed, shuts down flirting co-workers, jokes, prays, deals with the cultural clash of living on Medusa and serving the chapter. One of the better portrayals of an AdMech character I've seen.

 

There's also the interesting literary device of having occasional machine code or transcription details burst in, suggesting that part of the narrative is either drawn directly/mechanically from post-action memories and is being replayed or is an probabilistic reconstruction by cogitators. There's occasional time-skips, as though someone if fast-forwarding. Or another example: during a flashback you have a BOLD ALL-CAPS narratorial cogitator-voice intrusion to note that a character's statement is objectively false and has an X% chance of being incorrectly recalled by a fallible memory.

This might change by the book's end but I think it's fantastic and would love to see more of this type of thing, it's much more experimental than you usually see in BL books.

 

I would be very interested in hearing the thoughts of any embittered or otherwise IH fans on this. It's largely set during some of the events of the despised Clan Raukaan supplement but so far it seems to handle the back-and-forth of ideologies a lot better. Less crude stuff about emotions vs. logic, more delving into how these doctrines function and clash at the individual, squad and company levels, how they've evolved and accelerated based on:

 

- the events of the heresy and the reformations following Manus's death

- the clashing personalities of individual Iron Fathers (which the Clan Raukaan book largely dwelt on but seems to be minimised somewhat here)

- the changing nature of an Cult Mechanicus-influenced and IH chapter-ruled Medusa. The planet didn't stop changing once the imperium arrived in the great crusade.

- how brutality and the chapter culture reproduces itself in the neophyte initiation processes, sort of an anthropological thing involving handing on pain to the next generation and having them buy into it by enacting it themselves later on.

 

It feels better and more interesting than the studio background to me. Heads up though, Stronos is a sergeant who has just transferred clan-companies so it's partially through his eyes that we see the varying beliefs.

[HeritorA]

Finished the novel fully.

And have absolutely different humble opinion - the worst book of Guymer to date. Constrict, convoluted attempt to give meaning to IH in W40K with the lore he had.

Too much overused terms, to much 'automaton' feeling, absolutely 'pointless' story.

 

Sadly that book killed the last scraps of interest I had to Iron Hands in w40-w41k

[RandomMarine]

Just finished it and I have to say meh.

Stronos is pretty cool I liked that he's a bit of a outcast among his clan.

 

 

Some serious unresolved plot threads IMO

What is dawnbreaker tech?

Why are the iron hands intentionally limiting recruitment/ascension numbers?

Why do they let a admech priest cast the controlling vote in the council?

 

Hopefully when we get a new clan codex they add in helfathers as a unit

3man squad with T6 and W4 in all flavors of terminator armour

[DarkChaplain]

Unresolved plot threads are a given considering it is supposed to be a trilogy or somesuch.

[RandomMarine]

If its going to be a trilogy those make a bit more sense.

 

But I really want adb or McNeil to do our next book maybe set in the current timeline as Medusa is bang smack in the . a quest into the shadow lands finds a pylon array so Medusa is in a realspace bubble cut off from the imperium

[veterannoob]

Reading now and I'm a bit confused in the first 3 chapters why are they fighting skitarii or is that actually a simulation.

[HeritorA]

Reading now and I'm a bit confused in the first 3 chapters why are they fighting skitarii or is that actually a simulation.

Curious about your opinion on full novel. I can't fathom why David wrote such a disjointed novel - he never had this issues before.

[veterannoob]

 

Reading now and I'm a bit confused in the first 3 chapters why are they fighting skitarii or is that actually a simulation.

Curious about your opinion on full novel. I can't fathom why David wrote such a disjointed novel - he never had this issues before.

 

I recorded the interview for release in 2-3 weeks. I...need to think about how I'd go indepth on this. Still processing...simulus...  

[HeritorA]

 

 

Reading now and I'm a bit confused in the first 3 chapters why are they fighting skitarii or is that actually a simulation.

Curious about your opinion on full novel. I can't fathom why David wrote such a disjointed novel - he never had this issues before.

 

I recorded the interview for release in 2-3 weeks. I...need to think about how I'd go indepth on this. Still processing...simulus...  

 

Owwwww... That would be a joy to listen

[veterannoob]

http://traffic.libsyn.com/combatphase/Ep_205_-_Eye_of_Medusa_wDavid_Guymer.mp3

 

We have lots of news, hobby and games played to discuss. Then David Guymer joins us for another BL author interview to talk his new book Eye of Medusa about the Iron Hands, as well as upcoming works including the Ferrus Primarch novel, AoS work and 40K upcoming works.

 

Time stamp

00:52 - David Guymer interview Eye of Medusa, Ferrus Manus, Coming AoS 

 

@warlordGuymer

https://www.facebook.com/david.guymer.9

www.blacklibrary.com

Combat Phase aims to bring excellent resources  to our listeners around the world. Here are some excellent sources, retailers and more to be sure to check out.

 

• Secret Weapon Miniatures enter code COMBATPHASE for 5% off http://secretweaponminiatures.com/
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[HeritorA]

 

http://traffic.libsyn.com/combatphase/Ep_205_-_Eye_of_Medusa_wDavid_Guymer.mp3

 

We have lots of news, hobby and games played to discuss. Then David Guymer joins us for another BL author interview to talk his new book Eye of Medusa about the Iron Hands, as well as upcoming works including the Ferrus Primarch novel, AoS work and 40K upcoming works.

 

Time stamp

00:52 - David Guymer interview Eye of Medusa, Ferrus Manus, Coming AoS 

 

@warlordGuymer

https://www.facebook.com/david.guymer.9

www.blacklibrary.com

Combat Phase aims to bring excellent resources  to our listeners around the world. Here are some excellent sources, retailers and more to be sure to check out.

 

• Secret Weapon Miniatures enter code COMBATPHASE for 5% off http://secretweaponminiatures.com/
• Front Line Gaming for painting needs https://www.flgpaintstudio.com/
• Landmine   www.ministomp.com  
• Awesome 3-D printed items from Shapeways enter COMBATPHASE at checkout for free shipping off your first order  www.shapways.com

 

 

 

Ahh lovely - I will take the view of the Manus :)

[Xisor]

I finished this the other week and absolutely loved it. It's hugely creativr, deeply psychological, really giving a 'hard' SF edge to the mad baroque fantasy of 40k.

 

There were so many intensely cool ideas: the leakage of 'bias', the trajectory of ideas (memes), the exploration of anger, abuse etc.

 

It's fascinating in an utterly epic way. It dances around a huge array of ideas, but gives really telling input on them too. There was humanity, interest, psychology. It's an exemplar of everything I'd love to see more of in 40k.

 

---

 

Indeed, it's so dense and so detailed, I have a suspicion that fast readers would grow *very* impatient with it. To the point of them saying it's no good.

 

The disjointedness, for me, was a massive draw - the story has inherently non-linear (in mathematical sense, not merely literary) sense that 'simply telling a simple story' with your usual bells and whistles not only wouldn't be good here, it's utterly repeat and magnify the mistakes of Clan Raukaan.

 

In contrast, the moderate concepts invoked are able to *salvage* the nonsense of Clan Raukaan. Guymer has managed something astonishing, in my eyes, he's literally lived and worked an aspect his own story, a story that might as well be about breaking and fixing things that angry, privileged idiots on the internet are furiois about - in telling that story - he's managed to fix a thing and make it stronger than it was before.

 

----

 

I loved it.

 

It had music. And kissing!

 

An Iron Hands story.

 

One of the most intensely bleak and horrifyingly brutal books BL has published. With institutionalised abuse as one of the main threads of the story, genocide on a terrifying scale, and bizarre technocratic dogmatists front and center.

 

I think there could easily be a thesis on this book.

 

----

 

Did I mention how much I loved a lot of the actual science and efforts at serious sci-fi-ing 40k there was? Of how much genuine psychology, astute insights on the human condition and even just terribly compelling speculative fiction there was?

 

Because for me, There was *a lot*.

[HeritorA]

'Indeed, it's so dense and so detailed, I have a suspicion that fast readers would grow *very* impatient with it. To the point of them saying it's no good.
The disjointedness, for me, was a massive draw - the story has inherently non-linear (in mathematical sense, not merely literary) sense that 'simply telling a simple story' with your usual bells and whistles not only wouldn't be good here, it's utterly repeat and magnify the mistakes of Clan Raukaan.
In contrast, the moderate concepts invoked are able to *salvage* the nonsense of Clan Raukaan. Guymer has managed something astonishing, in my eyes, he's literally lived and worked an aspect his own story, a story that might as well be about breaking and fixing things that angry, privileged idiots on the internet are furiois about - in telling that story - he's managed to fix a thing and make it stronger than it was before.'

 

that is exactly what could and could not happen to humans trying to read this.

[Xisor]

Seriously though. That could be a lot of nonsense, but given how dismally received the Clan Raukaan stuff is, and how one of the central tenets of Iron Handedness is in watching weak things break and either watching them be annihilated in the process, or taking the surviving parts that were strong enough and reforming them into something inhumanly stronger...

 

Guymer's managed exactly that, but with a piece of ostensibly dud fluff. He's bolted bionics onto the still-living but otherwise maimed husk of Clan Raukaan and thereby turned it into something absurdly more enduring. (And nowhere near as flawed.)

 

To say I'm excited for his Primarch novel would be understate how much danger I'm in of overhyping it for myself beyond all reasonable expectations...

[bluntblade]

Xisor, have you read Grey Talon? Because those themes are very much there

[Pariah32]

David's iron hands culturally was second to none. He gave them more depth and history than we have ever seen in any BL publication.

 

I loved the detail into the different Clans and how they operate and in my eyes the Iron Hands are quite simply the toughest bastards out there and in the novel Eye of Medusa that really comes across.

 

I really hope David Guymer does some Horus heresy Iron Hands, I mean don't get me wrong other authors have done a good job with them in this setting but after reading Eye of Medusa I really feel that David gets them the most for me.