Chaos Index

[HeresyBeliever]

So we know we have a Chaos Index coming which will have Space marines of all kinds and Daemons of all kinds and knights in.

 

But what we don't know how they interact with each other and the 'Key words'. 

 

Given GW have said KDK is still an army. Will we be able to do similar with Nurgle, Tzeench and Slaanesh? 

 

Will the key words allow all Tzeench in one force chart like KDK does with Khorne?

 

This would make great sense and could easy be done.

[Celtic_cauldron]

Based on what we saw when GW released info about the Rubricae datasheet:

 

- "Chaos" as a generic Keyword;

- one keyword for each God;

- one keyword for "Heretic Astartes" so we can assume quite safely we'll also have "Daemons" and "Foresworn/Renegade Knights";

- one keyword specific for each Traitor Legion so we can also assume that something might be done for "Crimson Slaughter", "Red Corsairs" and KDK.

 

Plus specific Keywords for units (like Rubric Marines, Psykers...).

 

Based on what was explained in the specific article about stratagems, we can assume that all units with the "Chaos" keyword should be allowed to be selected within the same army but with access limited to the most common stratagems. If one goes specific more options should be available. This should also apply to bonuses granted by characters.

 

Example:

 

1 DG Chaos Lord + 2 squads of Plague Marines + 1 band of Pink Horrors + 2 bands of Plaguebearers ==> Chaos only

1 DG Chaos Lord + 2 squads of Plague Marines + 2 bands of Plaguebearers ==> Chaos & Nurgle only

1 Great Unclean One + 2 bands of Plaguebearers ==> Chaos, Daemons & Nurgle only

 

According to GW, the more specific your army is, the more choices you have in terms of stratagems.

 

Celtic_Cauldron

[Plaguecaster]

I wonder how Death Guard as a faction will operate I wonder if I will be able to take Helbrutes chosen or havocs and still count as death guard faction or will death guard only be limited to the new stuff in the starter set as somehow you won't be able to take "Deathguard" chao marine or cultist squads as troops anymore if you want to retain the deathguard faction keyword

[Panzer]

Yeah I was thinking about that as well. I would be really bummed out if I couldn't take those sweet daemon engines without disqualifying my army from being a full Emperor's Children army.

[HeresyBeliever]

you will be able to take any units witch cant have a mark i suspect and any units that can, must take the mark of nurgle  

[Skerr]

So we know we have a Chaos Index coming which will have Space marines of all kinds and Daemons of all kinds and knights in.

 

But what we don't know how they interact with each other and the 'Key words'. 

 

Given GW have said KDK is still an army. Will we be able to do similar with Nurgle, Tzeench and Slaanesh? 

 

Will the key words allow all Tzeench in one force chart like KDK does with Khorne?

 

This would make great sense and could easy be done.

 

That makes sense.  Thanks for breaking it down.

[Prot]

I think KDK is just going to become a fancy 'ally' now. If all 'free' is basically gone now, that leaves allying and basically friends with benefits. (IE: 5 units with keyword "Daemonkin" get +1 Attack).

 

I look at Rubrics which have keyword Thousand Sons, and Tzeentch. So I assume this is "Tzeentch Daemonkin" essentially by saying you can mix your Tzeentch stuff, with your Thousand Sons stuff and still get benefits of Tzeentch.

[Panzer]

Well maybe some units have the KDK keyword as well....who knows. :D

[Cryptix]

Vehicles have been confirmed for both marks and legions, so you don't have to worry about being locked out of your subfaction.

[HeresyBeliever]

As long as I can take my big axe bloodthirster (formally know as a D-Thirster) with my space marines I'll be happy.

[Sception]

I'm sure you'll be able to.  The question will be what, if anything, you have to give up to do so.

[Raven1]

I have thought for sometime that allies will be done through keywords and that armies like KDK will be like blades of khorne or disciples of Tzeentch where its all God aligned in one book.

[Sonoftherubric21]

Itll probably be "declare a keyword for a given detachment, that detachment must have units that have this same keyword" 

and give some kind of bonus per detachment choice.

 

I would imagine an allied detachment is "a detachment with a different primary key word, from a different chaos faction" or something akin to it. 

[Sception]

I imagine all units in your army must share at least one keyword, and you access additional benefits (extra spells for your psykers, extra equipment options for characters, extra strategems to spend command points on) for armies or detachments that share multiple or particular keywords.  Like blood tithe strategem if your entire army has the khorne keyword, etc.

[MurderKing]

Has there been any hint of an Undivided mark? It seems that the leviathan has to take a mark, so I would hope that undivided gets some love so they can be included in the undivided legions forces. 

[Celtic_cauldron]

Regarding vehicles, just have a look to today's announcement on Warhammer Community.

 

They present the Leviathan's datasheet and there's a keyword for Mark and Legion. That should be a good indication for us.

 

Celtic_Cauldron

[Sception]

Has there been any hint of an Undivided mark? It seems that the leviathan has to take a mark, so I would hope that undivided gets some love so they can be included in the undivided legions forces. 

 

no hint of an undivided mark, but I rather expect <variable> keywords to be optional.

[MurderKing]

 

Has there been any hint of an Undivided mark? It seems that the leviathan has to take a mark, so I would hope that undivided gets some love so they can be included in the undivided legions forces. 

 

no hint of an undivided mark, but I rather expect <variable> keywords to be optional.

 

That would make sense for them to be optional. Undivided did make a short return in Shadow War Armageddon, maybe we'll see it. 

[Scammel]

I strongly suspect KDK have been squatted as an outright 'thing', and will instead just be the Khorne equivalent of god-specific lists with a mix of mortals and Daemons.

[Panzer]

I imagine all units in your army must share at least one keyword, and you access additional benefits (extra spells for your psykers, extra equipment options for characters, extra strategems to spend command points on) for armies or detachments that share multiple or particular keywords.  Like blood tithe strategem if your entire army has the khorne keyword, etc.

Yeah I think that as well.

 

For example you could have a detachment all with the Chaos faction keyword but including units with different legion and/or mark faction keywords. Means you'll get the (probably smaller) bonus of fielding an all chaos army but that's it. However if all of the units share the same legion faction keyword on top of that you'll get all the legion specific boni on top of the chaos ones.

 

So you can mix and match all units in a detachment as long as they share at least one faction keyword.

[DreamIsCollapsing]

- one keyword specific for each Traitor Legion so we can also assume that something might be done for "Crimson Slaughter", "Red Corsairs" and KDK.

 

 

KDK is not dead ? 

 

I mean, i'm not a pro on Khorn fluff but i thought KDK was just a way to get Chaos Space marine + Khorn daemon, as Khorn can't invoc daemon with Sorcerer. 

 

But now, with a Detachment based on Chaos or Khorn Faction Key word you can get the exact same thing ! I think it's what GW mean when then say KDK is still here in V8. Exept it's not KDK, it's just Chaos, and we can make it for ant dark god. 

 

And maybee KDK mecanics will be convert in Stratagem specific for any Khorn detachment. 

 

That would make sense for them to be optional. Undivided did make a short return in Shadow War Armageddon, maybe we'll see it. 

 

 

And with the new moral system, +1 Ld for undivided chaos mark is pretty good. 

I wonder if marking a Vehicule will have some bonus. Some V7 Forgeworld units does.

[Plaguecaster]

KDK has a AOS version that is pretty brutal since they changed the whole free daemons to better unit buffs etc so I can easily see them porting over those rules for KDK to make them better

 

Oh yeah since it is now a keyword (Guessing since it's on the leviathan) don't expect any buffs etc for such it's the same in AOS you only take marks to fulfil the god keyword criteria which are free not to give it any sort of buff like better T etc

[Kol Saresk]

KDK is just a single type of Khorne army that basically trades non-daemon units for daemon units during the game. So it's meant to be a "you killed my cultists, but now you get some bloodletters to deal with. Which then die and become more bloodletters."

 

So depending on how they want to deal with Khorne and World Eaters, we could see a KDK keyword, or it just might a perk of having a keyword Khorne army that's using certain formations while other formations have different benefits, etc.

[DreamIsCollapsing]

Rubrics Marin Datasheet says they got a 5+ Invulnerable Save.

 

So maybee the mark of Tzeench still get a +1 to Invu (6+ for standard marine with MoT, and 5+ for the Tzeencht favorit)

[Panzer]

Unlikely. Then they would end up with a 3+ invul save against any weapon doing only 1 damage. And that's out in the open without any Cover etc.