Death to the False Emperor and Berserkers in 8th

[MoGuy]

 

Shooting even deadlier? Aside from a few exceptions like the Leviathan Dread it rather looks like shooting got toned a good bit down imo.^^

 

 

Do we have some mathhammer on this already? Because I feel like shooting more or less stayed the same in terms of deadlyness. For example: MEQs could just shrug of AP4 and TEQs didn't care about AP3 weapons. But with the new rend mechanic we can wound TEQs more easily. At the same time however, many units now suddenly have an armour save against things that would previously just punch through their armour. GEQs now have their normal 5+ against bolters and S5 weapons only wound them on 3+ and not on 2+ anymore. Same goes for every unit. So everything can hurt everything now but most things don't just punch straight through a unit's armour anymore.

[Sception]

Eh.  A lot of weapons we've seen are pretty high damage, strength, and save mod.  Plus you can move and shoot with heavy weapons now, and everything can split fire.  And you can't lock opponents in combat, the ability to shoot, fire overwatch when charged, and then have any survivors just walk away, leaving the assaulting unit exposed to shooting from the rest of your army, are all still pretty big boosts to shooting.  I don't think the situation will be worse in terms of ranged/melee skew than it is in 7th, but I'm not yet completely convinced that it will be better.

[Panzer]

Yeah that are all pro things. But we also have a worse to-wound table for mid-high strength weapons and weapons that used to completely ignore armor reduce it only a good bit. And that's before factoring in cover.

Also a lot of former cover giving special rules are now to-hit modifier.

 

So yeah while low-mid S weapons with ~AP4 benefit from the new rules, mid-high S weapons with AP2-3 actually don't really. Imo that's a good change tho.

Simply deleting Marine squads with Plasma Crisis always felt wrong, now they at least have a save against those and only get wounded on 3+ instead of 2+.

[Surreal Cruelty]

If you look at the datasheet for the Plague Marines on the Warhammer Fest blog, plasma weapons just got improved. Hopefully berzerkers will still be able to have like 3 pistols per unit.

[Daenerys Targaryen]

I'm hoping that 'Zerker's will actually get a new kit within the next 6-8 months and will gain hand flamers + plasma pistols as ranged options.

 

It is quite welcome obviously the change to plasma weapons - now they're actually worth the bloody pts since the risk/reward is a personal choice,  instead of just always watching 30+ pts models exploding themselves! :D

[Sception]

8-8 months is probably optimistic.  I'd expect latter half of 2018 myself, unless slaanesh actually sees a major release, in which case latter half of 2019.  But that's just guesswork.

[DeadFingers]

I expect to hear news about the next Traitor Legion to get a facelift by the end of the year. Not necessarily a release, but at least a tease or confirmation of which one's next.

[Daenerys Targaryen]

Consider that only 90% or so of our entire model range needs re-doing & badly,  as well as GW outright stating that they themselves know & are well aware of how they've left CSM's to rot for near-eternity,   it would be a slap in the face if we have get;

- Deathguard 2017

- WE's or Emp's 2018

- WE's or Emp's 2019

- maybe new CSM's sometime around 20022?!

 

I know we're not the only army in the game,  but really,  only Sisters are in as horrific a spot model line wise...  Most of our line is ancient,  missing most/nearly all of their options,  not to mention fugly as gak!  (at least Sisters still look good)

 

GW should be kicking Chaos Marines into overdrive and giving us at least 2,  if not 3 'big' release windows for the next few years.  (ie:  3-5 kits per release window)

[DeadFingers]

That's what I expect, yeah, Emperor's Children and World Eaters, then Undivided, all along the next couple of years. I said it already and I'll say it again, I'd love to see Daemon Perturabo getting a model, but I doubt the Undivided Legions (besides Black Legion) will get the same treatment as the Cult ones, adding four more Legions to the pipeline would only clog it up and delay everything else. But who knows, really?

 

One thing they could do is divide the vanilla CSM units among the Undivided Legions and make the future CSM release all about them. The Night Lords release would be Raptors and Warp Talons, the Iron Warriors would be Obliterators and Mutilators, Word Bearers would be Possessed and Dark Apostles, Alpha Legion would be Cultists, Black Legion gets Chosen, you get the idea. Plus whatever extra stuff we might get (Proper Chaos tanks and vehicles? Pretty please?)

 

That's just wishful thinking though. I expect the Chaos parade to stop after WE, EC and vanilla CSM featuring Abaddon. Not that i would complain about that (as long as we get new models for our 15+ year old stuff). But hey, if you told me a year ago that GW would not only give Rubrics new models but also make the Thousand Sons a new faction with their own units and even Magnus himself, I would have laughed at you, and here we are, waiting for Mortarion and the Death Guard. We might even see the Dark Mechanicus or even the return of the Lost and the Damned one of these years, if we're lucky.

 

Edit: Oh and by the way, at this point, Chaos and Sisters are not the only ones needing a facelift, Ork Boyz and Necron Warriors are getting there too, and the Eldar have the advantage of having some very good looking models, but a lot of them are still Finecast.

[Iron Father Ferrum]

-= Continues repainting his 15-year old CSMs apparently oblivious to how horrid they are =-

[Daenerys Targaryen]

I simply find it downright hilarious that the 'CSM faction focus' article basically comes right and says that you'll only ever want to give your 'Zerkers chainaxes now...

Except the useless as gak kit only comes with 6 axes for 12 models,  and 8th is going to be strictly WYSIWYG! <.<

 

Good job there GW!

[the jeske]

Man, maybe the new zerker box will only have 6 dudes inside? Try to look at stuff from a brigher perspective.

[DeadFingers]

If a Zerker box had less than 10 models in it, it'd be 8.

[Archaeinox]

I betcha we can expect 10man units for all the cults.

 

Rubrics should have been 9 right? Nah, 10man box.............

[Sception]

Consider that only 90% or so of our entire model range needs re-doing & badly,  as well as GW outright stating that they themselves know & are well aware of how they've left CSM's to rot for near-eternity,   it would be a slap in the face if we have get;

- Deathguard 2017

- WE's or Emp's 2018

- WE's or Emp's 2019

- maybe new CSM's sometime around 20022?!

 

I know we're not the only army in the game,  but really,  only Sisters are in as horrific a spot model line wise...  Most of our line is ancient,  missing most/nearly all of their options,  not to mention fugly as gak!  (at least Sisters still look good)

 

GW should be kicking Chaos Marines into overdrive and giving us at least 2,  if not 3 'big' release windows for the next few years.  (ie:  3-5 kits per release window)

 

I'm not sure how a major Chaos Marine release wave taking up the better part of a quarter's attention from GW every year for like 5 years in a row could possibly be seen as a 'slap in the face'.

[Daenerys Targaryen]

The entire line minus the 2012 releases + Hellbrute + new 1kSons (and soon DG) is in dire need of a complete re-do.

Not to mention we still have no actual kit for Chosen (despite a 15+ year wait), or Cultists.

And with 8th being strict WYSIWYG, our army is in even more dire straits...

For example, don't be surprised if we suddenly lose all access to Combi-plasmas, while combi-flamer/melta becomes purely a 'Terminator only' option, since there's no actual PA combi-weapons in our range. (except for that 1 mono-pose clamshell Aspiring Champ)

5+ years to re-do our model line *would* be a kick in the teeth, especially since we can be certain that GW will find some way to magically get 12+ new units/vehicles out within a year or two for their new Primarines, care of Reboot Guilliman. -.-

Hell, re-booting the entire CSM range could be as simple as;

- WE's release = new 'Zerkers + 'Angry' Termie kits. Angron + new Chaos Rhino kit.

- Emp's Children = new Noise Marines + Noise Termies. Fulgrim + new 'Slaany unit'

- Codex CSMs = new basic Chaos Marine kit + Chosen + Havocs + Termies

- generic release = new Cultists + Oblit/Mutie combo-kit + BL upgrade pack + new Land Raider inclu Chaos only variant.

Boom. Easily doable within 2 - 2.5 years, and our range is finally pulled out of the ancient fugly mess it's been languishing in for over a decade now.

I mean, have you seen just how hilariously stupid our little squatters look now vs. the Primarines?! It's like watching a chipmunk trying to irritate a T-Rex!

[Sception]

Considering we already have confirmation on bike mounted lords and sorcerers despite there being no current official model for either, I think it's pretty safe to assume that we won't be losing current equipment options like combi plas on terminators or the like.

 

Your projected schedule is really only possible if CSMs make up like a quarter of all GW releases for the next couple years, which isn't at all reasonable given we're just one faction of like a dozen in 40k, and that's before you even remember that AoS is still a thing and still gets release windows.

 

 

Also, I'm not sure we're ever going to see replacement models for CSMs, bikes, havoks; or even models at all for chosen.  Look at the Death Guard - they're primaris scale.  Every new release we're looking at for loyalists is primaris.  What I expect to happen is that when regular heretic astartes get their attention - after all the legions are done, what we'll see is Abaddon and Fabius inventing a new version of super chaos marines to combat the super loyalist marines Guilliman and Cawl made, so instead of getting revised basic CSM models we'll instead get nuCSMs that effectively replace them outright (without technically invalidating them as legal units in game).

 

That's just guesswork, tho.

[Daenerys Targaryen]

2 CSM release per year for a couple years would only need a total of 4/24 months - a far cry from 25% of total releases. 

It's not unreasonable to expect 3-4 kits + a clamshell or two per release for the cults,  while an actual CSM codex release could add on a 5th kit.  (just plan it for when there's a 5 Saturday month!)

 

I just really,  really hope that Chaos at least stays the hell away from the sheer cartoonishness that is "OMG guys!  Super-duper-super Maweens!!"

A new unit for Fabius of actual super-enchanced (and equally super dangerous!) psycho-Chaos Marines would be cool,  but should remain a specialist formation such as the Fallen,  Possessed cults,  etc...

 

What I love about CSM lore is that we're all about abusing forbidden cloning technologies and marrying science with daemonic energies to basically mass-produce super soldiers & to hell with the consequences!  (yes,  I actually enjoyed the daemonocculaba from 'Dead Sky,  Black Sun',  and the eventual character development of 'the Newborn' in Chapter's Due!)

 

Leave the cartoon level 'Super-super Saiyan' stupidity to Little Timmy...

[Sception]

Maybe not 25% of total releases, but if you say one release wave a month, 5 for 40k and 5 for AoS, with two release waves for Bloodbowl/Shardspire/whatever other specialist games, then you are talking about giving us more than a third of all 40k releases for the next two years, and again I just don't see that as a reasonable expectation.

 

As for whether we'll get replacement models for existing units or some new super units altogether, well...  When was the last time GW replaced plastic kit, no matter how old?  That's an honest question, as I haven't followed every release, but it feels like a long time to me.  Abaddon and Bile conspiring on a chaos alternative to NuMarines that they then spread to the other legions just strikes me as way, way more likely, but again that's just speculation and quasi-negativity on my part.

[Daenerys Targaryen]

Marines got their Tacticals replaced in 6th,  then Devs + Assaults replaced in 7th.

Tau got Fire Warriors replaced with their book.

Tyranids got overhauled Warriors kit in 7th.

Guard had pretty much every single one of their tanks re-done across their 5th & late 6th ed releases.

 

And that's just off the top of my head - I'm sure I'm missing a few others.

GW redoes existing plastic kits quite frequently actually.