Tactical purpose of each Legio

[GreyCrow]

Hey hey hey!

 

So, I'm still a noob when It comes to all Legions fluff, but one thing seems for sure!

Each Legion was designed to fit a tactical purpose in His Glorious Grand Crusade

 

Some Legions, some purpose are pretty clear, others, not as much.

 

Can you guys phrase in your own words what are The tactical purposes for each Legion, or link to a compréhensive list?

Would be very interested in comparing

 

Thanks very much!

[SkimaskMohawk]

They weren't, actually. The legions all followed the principia bellicosa, with the exception of salamanders, space wolves, and alpha legion who were held back for mysterious reasons. They would make their own reputation based on the circumstances of a particular theatre, and would then be kind of more shoe-horned in to those pre-conceived roles and come to specialize in them. 

[GreyCrow]

They weren't, actually. The legions all followed the principia bellicosa, with the exception of salamanders, space wolves, and alpha legion who were held back for mysterious reasons. They would make their own reputation based on the circumstances of a particular theatre, and would then be kind of more shoe-horned in to those pre-conceived roles and come to specialize in them. 

 

Sure, but the Emprah created each Primarch with engineered specificities, specificities which then were transferred to the Legions.

 

Don't think they are like stem cells that adapt to the needs, as identified by some of the books, or am I dead wrong ?

[Knight of the Raven]

I don't have information on the Legions' original purposes, but here are the "observed strategic tendancies" from Betrayal, Massacre and Extermination for what they're worth:

[SkimaskMohawk]

 

They weren't, actually. The legions all followed the principia bellicosa, with the exception of salamanders, space wolves, and alpha legion who were held back for mysterious reasons. They would make their own reputation based on the circumstances of a particular theatre, and would then be kind of more shoe-horned in to those pre-conceived roles and come to specialize in them. 

 

Sure, but the Emprah created each Primarch with engineered specificities, specificities which then were transferred to the Legions.

 

Don't think they are like stem cells that adapt to the needs, as identified by some of the books, or am I dead wrong ?

 

 

The primarchs are very much shown to be molded by their home planets, not to have pre-set things other than some psychic phenomena and genetic differences. Angron is a great example of this, not only was he lobotomized, but he changed the XIIth's public perception; they were known as noble, controlled aggression, while the Wolves were the beserkers that caused collateral damage.

 

Pre-primarch and war theaters, fresh from Terra, there was no special designations for the legions except for the 3 I mentioned before. The Ist were special too, but in the sense they had to do literally everything alone and were made before the principia bellicosa was written.

[Knight of the Raven]

Actually, I recall people (mainly Legatus and, I believe, Wade Garrett) complaining that there was some kind of "genetic determinism" in Forge World's lore. Here's an example of such a post and such lore:

 

Bad eggs? Where? All the Forge World HH fluff is awesome!

I am not supposed to talk about it... but no, all FW HH fluff is most certainly not awesome.

 

Another Forgeworld take in the lore that I find most unfortunate is the "genetic-determinism". It was not Perturabo who had learned siege techniques growing up and then made his Legion into siege specialists. No, they were genetically engineered by the Emperor to be siege specialists. It was not Corax growing up as a freedom/guerilla fighter and then teaching that to his Legion that made the Raven Guard into stealth specialists. No, they were stealth experts even before Corax was found and reunited with the Legion. Being very analytical and mindful of mission parameters and casualties is not what Guilliman had studied on Macragge and then brought to his Legion. No, the Ultramarines Legion already used such doctrines before Guiliman was found. The Night Lords did not just start to be infused with more and more criminal scum after Curze was found and they started recruiting from Nostramo. No, the Legion had been founded with criminal scum right from the very beginning.

In Forgeworld lore, the Legions were no longer shaped by their Primarchs and how they happened to grow up on their homeworlds. Instead, virtually all of their unique doctrines had been built into them intentionally from the start. By cosmic miracle the Primarchs then grew up learning specifically those same doctrines their Legion had been genetically engineered to use in the first place.

 

Edit: To clarify, since here I go being all negative again: The forgeworld lore is for the most part very good, and of high quality. I usually refer to the Alpha Legion treatment as a very positive example, where Alan admirably managed to merge the older Codex descriptions of the Alpha Legion as ruthless and efficient combatants with the Black Library descriptions of secret infiltration agents in power armour.

If this is true and not a misinterpretation, I guess we can claim some (most? all?) Legions were created to have the same tactical purpose as the one their primarch led them to have upon his return.

[SkimaskMohawk]

That quote literally doesn't reference any actual texts.

 

What I said earlier was that after some initial war theatres, legions earned a reputation for a fighting in a particular style and were often then sent to wars where they could reapply those skills. By the time they found their primarch, sure, they could have a predefined style, but often a primarch would change the legion to suit.

 

Look at the imperial heralds vs the word bearers. One brought the emperors word and destroyed all religious icons, the others were fanatics post lorgar.

 

Warhounds vs world eaters. Controlled, noble aggression; berserker warriors that caused huge collateral damage and had machines attached to their brains.

[Sandlemad]

There definitely was a genetic component to the legion's character but that complaint of 'genetic determinism = legion role' overstates the case a bit. Like SkimaskMohawk said, before meeting Angron the XIIth legion were agressive and fairly fractious but not wretchedly so. Moreover Betrayal notes that this wasn't just geneseed but some possible targeting of recruitment towards the most violent candidates.

 

Similarly it's hard to draw a direct line from the Iron Warriors' slightly higher pain tolerance (from Betrayer) to their role. Having a higher pain tolerance would be useful for siege experts, certainly, but it would be useful for lots of other styles of warfare as well, and the IVth legion showed no particular military preference by choice until well after Perturabo's arrival. Their lack of political clout meant they became considered a 'workhorse legion' and got saddled with the grubby jobs like siege work, but that wasn't written in stone, it was a knock on effect of various different factors.

 

There definitely has been a push in the FW background to shade in the pre-primarch background and sometimes you do get a similarity between the legions' character pre- and post-primarch but it's not as deep as that quote makes it out to be. Like the Raven Guard. Pre-primarch they used stealth tactics, sure, but in really nasty counter-insurgency warfare derived from the Terran cultures they recruited from. With Corax, you have a fairly deep shift of emphasis to liberation, psychologically and in leadership.

That image from Extermination mentions 'low collateral damage imperative compliance operations'; without Corax that absolutely wouldn't have been part of the RG's way of war.

 

The superficial tactics there might be the same but how the pre- and post-primarch legions would fit into a galactic role is tricky to nail down, unless you want to make it as broad and vague as 'stealth legion #1'. Same with the Ultramarines; pre-Guilliman they were called 'psycho-organically' competitive and hierarchical by imperial observers but then so were the Emperor's Children and, to a lesser extent, the Dark Angels. Unless you combine that with the military culture of Ultramar and the logistical genius of Guilliman (himself hugely influenced by his ruling class upbringing on Macragge) you don't get a legion of empire-builders.

 

The thing is, our view of this is always filtered through imperial observers and misdirection. You end up studying the 'recorded' evidence of the legion's behaviours, which comes from all these variables: pre-primarch history/Terran recruit cultures, geneseed, primarch's influence, and new homeworld's influence. Sometimes there's friction or a clash, sometimes not. It's not universally neat and makes it hard to see a clear plan or individual purpose for each legion on the part of the emperor.

Mind you that plan could absolutely be there! Some desire for diversity among his armies seems very likely; it makes sense, as the astartes themselves identify. But we also know the emperor wanted to blitz  through the crusade, could not factor in/predict everything and was happy enough to shrug and make the best of circumstances (e.g. Angron, Thunder Warriors). He might not have wanted a self-mutilating berzerker legion at the great crusade's outset but if that's what he wound up with, fine, he'd use them until they burnt out.

 

I don't think you're going to get much better than the images that Knight of the Raven posted. Even if they're firmly in-unverse observations of role (descriptive rather than prescriptive) by imperial strategoi, they're already better than what we'd seen in the 40k codices for years. They go deeper than 'chainaxe legion' or 'siege legion #2'... or at any rate use large-scale military history-speak for coolness.

[Kinstryfe]

One thing that's potentially relevant is that it's been hinted that some Astartes are built to obey their Primarchs on a genetic level (Argel Tal voices this concern in The First Heretic, I believe). Maybe not to follow it mindlessly, but certainly with an innate pull that they didn't feel for their Astartes commanders. It's also been mentioned (if I recall correctly) that for a lot of the legions, being reunited with their Primarch was a huge huge event for them. The fact that they seem to feel this sense of awe for ANY Primarch they see seems to possibly support this. Now why is this relevant? If Astartes have a built in connection to their Primarch, then maybe they were subtly influenced even at a distance. The fact that Astartes have differing responses to their Primarch may account for why at distance in many legions it was just a slight trend in specialty, and they didn't follow them fully in style until they were reunited.

In other words, a space wizard did it?

[AndyNoMore]

Can anyone explain what "high intensity warfare" is?

[GreyCrow]

Can anyone explain what "high intensity warfare" is?

Mosh pit of fighting ? :P

 

Thanks for all The comments guys, very interesting !

[Arkangilos]

It's actually been said that at least the Blood Angels were designed specifically to be more angelic, and to act specifically as a shock force (and their gene seed implantation process reflects it).

[Liege]

It's actually been said that at least the Blood Angels were designed specifically to be more angelic, and to act specifically as a shock force (and their gene seed implantation process reflects it).

I believe when it comes down to the Blood Angels, they were designed or they decided to focus on "Shock & Awe" with a much heavier emphasis on awe. The most inspiring armour and weapons, the most flashy methods of assault, everything calculated to make you just give in to them as there is no way you can stand against such a ludicrously powerful foe. Looking 'perfect' certainly helps with that, seeing a BA captain with his helmet off? *swoon*