Fate of Baal

[Arkangilos]

There is no way we could have beat the entire Hive fleet alone. I would be strongly against that.

 

The other two fleets were barely defeated and those had the entire segmentums largely focusing on them, plus they were both much smaller and much weaker

[The Unseen]

Yeah, it would've been kinda ridiculous to have, ohh pretty much a force of Legion sized Blood Angels to win anything right?  /s

 

And it would've been way better if say, rather than a bunch of contrived circumstances that have nothing to do with the moving pieces of the plot, you had

 

"Dante's strategy of delay paid off, allowing him time to gather reinforcements from all across the Dark Imperium/Segmentum, so rather than face the might of barely a dozen space marine chapters, Leviathans hordes instead faced trillions of men from the Imperial Guard, additional chapters of marines from all across the Galaxy, and an entire maniple of Emperor Class Titans and their attendees. Against such a gathering, even the seemingly endless might of Leviathan proved insufficient, and the Baal Systems inhospitable bareness proved critical, as the Tyranids found no easy source of bio-mass to replace its losses. With no food source, and against a foe with nearly the same inexhaustible supply of blood to shed, Leviathan was bogged down, cut apart, and slain. Losses to the Imperium were uncountable, but Dante, and his surviving allies, stand triumphant."

 

And there you go. It isn't hard to write conclusions to big events, wihout using "randomness/the warp/the bad guys decided against killing all their prisoners and decided to let them all stay in their armor so they can easily stage a prison break/plot induced stupidity happened, and suddenly the Mary Sue appeared, and everything turned out fine, and everyone kisses the goddamn ground said Sue walks on, as he is perfect and can do no wrong." Were literally not even into 8th yet and I'm already sick of seeing Gman and company being the only important people in the entire galaxy.

[Dont-Be-Haten]

There are no blood angels left as we know them.

 

Baal and her moons are gone. We are now a majority primaris marine army. As is all of our successors. Even at legion status they wiped us all out. To lose 8 chapter masters...untold thousands of marines. My heart aches because of this literature.

 

No hiding from it anymore. No more regular marines for me, once I finish the 2nd company of Carmine Blades...

[The4thHorseman]

Pretty much take your 40k Space Marines convert to HH.

Primaris Marines are now 40k.

[durdle-durdle]

i mean...yeah.  with the way things seem to be going, they'll probably brutalise the chapters then fill them back up with primaris marines.  They were never not going to eventually replace them all with new marines.  It's a business, and i can't fault them for that.  I'm currently debating if i want to even hold onto my current minis because 1.) they're mostly unpainted, so i could sell them fairly easily and 2.) eventually primaris marines will be the only marines.  I'm sure you can use the normal marines as primaris marines, but still, it's going to be odd to me having a chapter 2 different sizes.  i just fear greatly for the status of my army, eventually.

 

regardless, i'm probably going to get primaris marines.  They'll probably be made as a seperate chaper instead of in addition to.  since being in the starter box, they'll be cheap to get a hold of, and likely, will eventually be the competitive meta since they're the new GW poster boys.

[Battybattybats]

i mean...yeah. with the way things seem to be going, they'll probably brutalise the chapters then fill them back up with primaris marines. They were never not going to eventually replace them all with new marines. It's a business, and i can't fault them for that. I'm currently debating if i want to even hold onto my current minis because 1.) they're mostly unpainted, so i could sell them fairly easily and 2.) eventually primaris marines will be the only marines. I'm sure you can use the normal marines as primaris marines, but still, it's going to be odd to me having a chapter 2 different sizes. i just fear greatly for the status of my army, eventually.

 

regardless, i'm probably going to get primaris marines. They'll probably be made as a seperate chaper instead of in addition to. since being in the starter box, they'll be cheap to get a hold of, and likely, will eventually be the competitive meta since they're the new GW poster boys.

Trouble for GW in that is they have 30 years of stuff making an era cool, so like the heresy there will always be people wanting to play games in that historical era and no amount of trying to move forward will stop that (trying too hard will increase it instead, a fluff quicksand) If GW tries to stop supporting it other businesses will take that market instead but the market will remain.

 

As for these events... what happened to the Sanguinor and his message?

[sockwithaticket]

Guilliman and Primaris Marines

BA & Sons being pushed to the brink of wipeout and the rift in the galaxy taking care of the 'nids I can live with. Hell, even the Khornate demons doing us a favour. Would have liked radioactive Baal Secondus to give the Tyranids whatever a Hive Fleet's equivalent of food poisoning is compromising the Hive Mind's synaptic efficacy and making it easy to wipe out huge swathes of 'nids. Sanguinor engages beast mode. All our dreads are unleashed again. Setting loose the Tower of the Lost residents...

Not a fan of G-man swooping to the rescue. Would have been so much better for him to get there just after the fighting had concluded. A more overt intervention from Ka'bandha would be more acceptable, sort of a 'no one takes you guys out but me' type of deal and in their weakend state the BA &co aren't worthy enough adversaries so he withdraws to let them get their strength back.

I will absolutely love it if Guilliman offers Dante Primaris and he rejects them, saying he''ll rebuild the old fashioned way, partly fuelled by concerns from Corbulo about revealing the full extent of the flaw.

[Jorre]

I'm sure they will release a campaign or at least a novel to flesh out the story at some stage... its got potential if they do it right

[Lord Fancy Pants]

At least they didn't have Sanguinius rise from the dead

[TheRealMcCagh]

I'm fine with Blood Angels getting bailed out on Baal. We sent three companies to help the UM with Behemoth, so it's about time they reciprocated. Also, it was pretty clear that just the BA's and their successors wouldn't be enough, so it's either get some outside help, abandon Baal, or all die on Baal. I think I know which one Dante would hope for, it's not like he is too proud to ask for help. 

 

It'd be cool if RG lands with his BA Primaris reinforcements only for them all to succumb to the Black Rage. Guilliman can't figure out what is happening to his army, and the battered BA Chaplains that remain are like 'chill man, we got this.'

 

As for the Blood Angels getting nearly destroyed, seems like it was about time. They love to get reduced to like fifty guys every few centuries

[Arkangilos]

They are releasing a novel.

 

If they would have let the Blood Angels win, then they would have been crapping on Tyrannid fluff for this Hive fleet, and making is Mary Sues.

 

The way they did it allows the 'nids to be defeated by the warp, not by a small collection of already battered chapters (remember, fifth Company is completely gone, first and second company are at half strength and away, and third Company is also away). Even their reinforcements are depleted for the same reasons. I would hardly call that a "legions worth".

 

Guilliman didn't even stop the Hive Fleet. He came in and stopped what was left, like during the HH.

 

I mean, do you guys get all upset when you watch the battle of helms deep and then Gandalf brings in his force to save the day, or so you go, "WHAT A :cussING MARY SUE! THOSE DEFENDERS SHOULD HAVE WON ON THEIR OWN!"

 

No, I would be upset if the Blood Angels did win without reinforcements coming in at the end. If it were anyone other than Big G I have a feeling that you all wouldn't even care.

[TheRealMcCagh]

I'm sure they will release a campaign or at least a novel to flesh out the story at some stage... its got potential if they do it right

 Isn't the Dante novel going to have a sequel by Haley? Seems like this will be the plot of that

 

*now that I think of it, is Mephiston even on Baal?

[Arkangilos]

I believe he is.

 

But yeah, the sequel is "The Devastation of Baal".

 

It will be interesting to see what happens when the Angels Sanguine actually do show up because in the Dante novel he basically excommunicated them.

[TheRealMcCagh]

I thought Dante didn't send a request to the Angels Sanguine? 

didn't he get pissed at Aphael for suggesting it?

 

​Or are they actually mentioned in the post? I can't get to the original post on a work computer

[durdle-durdle]

They are releasing a novel.

 

If they would have let the Blood Angels win, then they would have been crapping on Tyrannid fluff for this Hive fleet, and making is Mary Sues.

 

The way they did it allows the 'nids to be defeated by the warp, not by a small collection of already battered chapters (remember, fifth Company is completely gone, first and second company are at half strength and away, and third Company is also away). Even their reinforcements are depleted for the same reasons. I would hardly call that a "legions worth".

 

Guilliman didn't even stop the Hive Fleet. He came in and stopped what was left, like during the HH.

 

I mean, do you guys get all upset when you watch the battle of helms deep and then Gandalf brings in his force to save the day, or so you go, "WHAT A :cussING MARY SUE! THOSE DEFENDERS SHOULD HAVE WON ON THEIR OWN!"

 

No, I would be upset if the Blood Angels did win without reinforcements coming in at the end. If it were anyone other than Big G I have a feeling that you all wouldn't even care.

i mean, we know all the chapter successors except the lamenters showed up.  that's 25 chapters.  not a "small collection."  and then of course, there's the sanguinor, who could've done anything, as far as we know, didn't even show up.  so they were mostly saved by chaos and at the last moment, guilliman.

 

nobody was upset about how the battle of helm's deep was won, because gandalf and reinforcements were always supposed to show up THE WHOLE TIME.  The blood angels are far away from everyone, on the dark side of the imperium.  There wasn't supposed to be any relief coming their way.  Saying robby g showed up randomly and defeats the whole point of the dark imperium.  They absolutely could've won it on their own, with the 25 chapters (a quarter of a LEGION), all their supporting elements, the sanguinor, and every group of PDF and guard in the area from the dark side of the imperium.  Not to even mention Baal is a radiation infested DESERT.  The tyranids could've easily gotten sick trying to devour that planet.

 

instead, kabandha apparently decided to get lost fighting tyranids because reasons, and then guilliman shows up and clears up the rest.  It's super deus ex machina.

[Guest Triszin]

as a wolf I am sorry to see a similar fate was written for your chapter/s.

 

I do enjoy the fact that a excommincae traitorous successor chapter came to stand with there brothers.

 

 

I hope there is more in depth of the last stand of baal and what occured than a simple blurb.

 

would love to read about the flesh tearers, and the black raged marines killing scores of carnifex's before falling

[The Unseen]

Someone ninjed me on the Gandalf comparison. He was always supposed to show up, for Emperor's sake, he told them when he'd be there even. 3rd day at dawn, from the east, Apples to Oranges with a warp rift, a weirdly chill Khorne invasion, and suddenly Gman. That's 3; three goddamn coincidences to resolve something that was perfectly fine being solved through you know, actual storytelling, rather than look at all this crazy stuff that happens for no reason.

 

Damn, Ninjaed again, but yeah, 25 chapters of space marines. Even if that isn't every member of every chapter, etc etc, that's still a whole lot of marines defending a single system, and then they fail. I'm sorry, but having us beat off Tyranid invasion with literally every Son of Sanguinius in the whole fething galaxy doesn't make us Mary Sues, and doesn't make the nids look bad at all. It took THAT MANY of us to stop them.

 

Am I a bit more Rage touched than I should be? Probably, but literally every scrap of fluff in the past 6 months has been sub-fan fiction level writing. And everybody who isn't Ultramarines keeps getting :cussed over, whereas Gman apparently wins an ongoing chaos invasion across the breadth of Ultramar just by breathing again, and now can amazingly get through the ruinstorm 2.0 to save those poor, non-ultramarines just in the nick of time. It's like reading the 5th edition "codex Ultramarine drivel" all over again. I'm sure Ishagu is running through a field of daisies.

[Arkangilos]

To the AS thing, according to the article they all showed up, but according to Dante they didn't even ask for the AS, so that's why I am wondering.

 

 

 

They are releasing a novel.

 

If they would have let the Blood Angels win, then they would have been crapping on Tyrannid fluff for this Hive fleet, and making is Mary Sues.

 

The way they did it allows the 'nids to be defeated by the warp, not by a small collection of already battered chapters (remember, fifth Company is completely gone, first and second company are at half strength and away, and third Company is also away). Even their reinforcements are depleted for the same reasons. I would hardly call that a "legions worth".

 

Guilliman didn't even stop the Hive Fleet. He came in and stopped what was left, like during the HH.

 

I mean, do you guys get all upset when you watch the battle of helms deep and then Gandalf brings in his force to save the day, or so you go, "WHAT A :cussING MARY SUE! THOSE DEFENDERS SHOULD HAVE WON ON THEIR OWN!"

 

No, I would be upset if the Blood Angels did win without reinforcements coming in at the end. If it were anyone other than Big G I have a feeling that you all wouldn't even care.

i mean, we know all the chapter successors except the lamenters showed up. that's 25 chapters. not a "small collection." and then of course, there's the sanguinor, who could've done anything, as far as we know, didn't even show up. so they were mostly saved by chaos and at the last moment, guilliman.

 

nobody was upset about how the battle of helm's deep was won, because gandalf and reinforcements were always supposed to show up THE WHOLE TIME. The blood angels are far away from everyone, on the dark side of the imperium. There wasn't supposed to be any relief coming their way. Saying robby g showed up randomly and defeats the whole point of the dark imperium. They absolutely could've won it on their own, with the 25 chapters (a quarter of a LEGION), all their supporting elements, the sanguinor, and every group of PDF and guard in the area from the dark side of the imperium. Not to even mention Baal is a radiation infested DESERT. The tyranids could've easily gotten sick trying to devour that planet.

 

instead, kabandha apparently decided to get lost fighting tyranids because reasons, and then guilliman shows up and clears up the rest. It's super deus ex machina.

Where are you getting the number 25 for their successors? Also, remember, the dark side of the Imperium doesn't exist until THE END of the battle. That's what that storm was. That storm was the creation of the tear, and that's all that saved them (it made it so that the only thing big G had to beat was on the ground).

 

Dante knew they would likely die, Corbulo did, too.

 

Also, don't forget that almost all BA and successors are well bellow full strength. Did you forget that this was a time when almost the entire galaxy had been getting decimated? So I wouldn't be surprised if there were only 13 chapters WORTH of marines there, but even if we pretend (and it is pretend because the BA have at least four full companies not on Baal at the time of this), that all 25 are full strength, that's only 25000. Against over several billion tyranids that hold orbit. I don't understand how you can think that then surviving is absolute trash.

Someone ninjed me on the Gandalf comparison. He was always supposed to show up, for Emperor's sake, he told them when he'd be there even. 3rd day at dawn, from the east, Apples to Oranges with a warp rift, a weirdly chill Khorne invasion, and suddenly Gman. That's 3; three goddamn coincidences to resolve something that was perfectly fine being solved through you know, actual storytelling, rather than look at all this crazy stuff that happens for no reason.

 

Damn, Ninjaed again, but yeah, 25 chapters of space marines. Even if that isn't every member of every chapter, etc etc, that's still a whole lot of marines defending a single system, and then they fail. I'm sorry, but having us beat off Tyranid invasion with literally every Son of Sanguinius in the whole fething galaxy doesn't make us Mary Sues, and doesn't make the nids look bad at all. It took THAT MANY of us to stop them.

 

Am I a bit more Rage touched than I should be? Probably, but literally every scrap of fluff in the past 6 months has been sub-fan fiction level writing. And everybody who isn't Ultramarines keeps getting :cuss over, whereas Gman apparently wins an ongoing chaos invasion across the breadth of Ultramar just by breathing again, and now can amazingly get through the ruinstorm 2.0 to save those poor, non-ultramarines just in the nick of time. It's like reading the 5th edition "codex Ultramarine drivel" all over again. I'm sure Ishagu is running through a field of daisies.

That's 25,000 marines max. If you think that can single handedly stop a Hive fleet you are delusional.

[Arkangilos]

I mean have you read how big the threat of Tyrannids are supposed to be? They are depicted as a galaxy ending threat that popped up at the same time as everything else and are unstoppable. In all of the recent BA books (including Dante) they have already come to terms they would die.

 

Basically what I see is jealousy that we aren't the marry sue that stopped the beast.

 

And don't forget, the Crusade isn't all ultras. If you've followed it's led by multiple chapters including the Imperial Fists.

[Liege]

as a wolf I am sorry to see a similar fate was written for your chapter/s.

 

I do enjoy the fact that a excommincae traitorous successor chapter came to stand with there brothers.

 

 

I hope there is more in depth of the last stand of baal and what occured than a simple blurb.

 

would love to read about the flesh tearers, and the black raged marines killing scores of carnifex's before falling

Is it just me or is Khorne the current defender of the Imperium?

 

The Wolves only beat the Thousand Sons because Grimnar apparently has an Axe from Khorne himself...who directly intervened to ruin Magnus and who psykers could hear his laughing over Fenris.

(Not mentioning the fact that how has Magnus, who has been in the warp for 10,000 years not know how to withstand a khornate axe.)

 

Now Khorne has intervened to ruin the Tyranid extermination of the Blood Angels?

 

I just....I just don't even, I hate this with a passion.

 

The Wolves should have held on in a last stand with the Grey Knights and the Dark Angels, no Khorne needed

 

The Blood Angels should have held on through gathering all the nearby forces and still having the majority of the chapters succumb to the black rage, leading to a horrifying purge after the battle was won.

 

KHORNE, DEFENDER OF THE IMPERIUM.

[Helias_Tancred]

 

 

I bet in the aftermath Dante will welcome the Primaris Marines since he saw that classic Marines aren't enough anymore 

 

 

Heresy! 

[Arkangilos]

It's because Khorne doesn't want anyone to win. If someone wins (like the 'nids), then war is gone forever.

[durdle-durdle]

TBH, I went to the wiki, counted the number of successors and subtracted one. There's likely several more non cannon scrub chapters we don't know about. I was under the assumption each chapter probably averages 700 marines +vehicles. That's still nearly 18,000 marines. Plus pdf and guard in the area and whatever titan/knight titans in the area.

 

The friggin ultramarines won the first tyrannical war with pretty much their chapter, a legio, and the PDF. The second tyrranic war was 3 chapters, the PDF, and an elder craft world.

 

The tyranids may be "numberless," but without being able to pull resources from the planets (because deserts), they would get whittled down. Hell, Dante/Seth/any of the 25 chapter masters could've led attacks on the ships in orbit, boarded them, and destroyed the fleet from within. And again, the sanguinor exists, as does a ton of crazy death company who aren't even on the body count of the chapter.

[Arkangilos]

The first two tyrannic wars were won with the entirety of the a Ultima Segmentum.

[Helias_Tancred]

So i took the time to Copy the text, so you can find it below :

 

      => Second Scenari, the worst :

Primaris Astartes arrive, due to Warp time loop (and GW marketing team), on Baal to save (replace) the Blood Angels.

 

Prepare yourselves for what may be either :

 

=> One of the greatest part of the Blood Angels fluff.

=> The Worst part of Blood Angels fluff. (The kind you choose to simply ignore.)

 

Thank you for this breakdown. I hate to say it but it does have the potential to really really suck going forward for our chapter. How many are left? Are we going to be a new chapter of Primaris marines now? .... I would not be happy about that. Understandably we will receive some Primaris marines that share our gene seed but if we're going to be one of the chapters nearly totally rebuilt by Primaris marines ... not good IMO.