Fate of Baal

[deathspectersgt7]

I believe he is.

But yeah, the sequel is "The Devastation of Baal".

It will be interesting to see what happens when the Angels Sanguine actually do show up because in the Dante novel he basically excommunicated them.

WHAT !!!! ? Well mine won't help their cousins no longer .

[durdle-durdle]

The first two tyrannic wars were won with the entirety of the a Ultima Segmentum.

Everything I read was as I listed above. To be fair, I haven't read any novels about it, and I haven't read the tyranid codex. Possibly, the wikis greatly downplay the amount of people, or maybe that was the entire forces of the ultimate segmentum. Either way, 25 chapters is a greater strength than what is shown.

[The Unseen]

I mean have you read how big the threat of Tyrannids are supposed to be? They are depicted as a galaxy ending threat that popped up at the same time as everything else and are unstoppable. In all of the recent BA books (including Dante) they have already come to terms they would die.

 

Basically what I see is jealousy that we aren't the marry sue that stopped the beast.

 

And don't forget, the Crusade isn't all ultras. If you've followed it's led by multiple chapters including the Imperial Fists.

 

The first two tyrannic wars were won with the entirety of the a Ultima Segmentum.

 

 

If that's your impression from what I'm typing, I don't know what to tell you Arkangilos.

 

And no, no they weren't. I'm fuzzy on the second one, but the first one, the Battle for Macragge, was literally the Ultramarines, some guard forces, a large segmentum fleet, and a bunch of freaking civilian vessels with retrofits to assist the fleet. No mention of other chapters, just guard and naval assets. The ultras lost their entire first company in the ground war defending the polar fortresses, and they would have lost in space until Emperor Class Battleship Dominus Astra drove itself into the heart of the remaining Tyranid vessels, and detonated its warp drives. Emperor bless those men.

 

But yeah, the Ultra's 'single-handedly' held off a Tyranid Hive Fleet. But not from a Mary Sue character walking on screen, or a deus ex machina pulled from nowhere, they won with the use of good tactics by Calgar, who after first contact realized he needed to get his :cuss together, a lot of grit and sacrifice, and one hell of a bang from an irreplaceable ship.

 

And it was written pretty well, and didn't make the Ultras come off as Mary Sue author insert characters. Hell, Calgar got his butt handed to him by the Swarmlord in personal combat, losing most of his limbs, internal organs, and an eye. But he managed to fall back, regroup, and keep fighting. If GW wrote that today, Gman would probably just waltz onto a hive ship, Cawl would hand him a syringe full of anti-tyranid macguffinness that he supposedly had been working on since Tyran got nommed, and watch the whole Hive Fleet die.

[Arkangilos]

the Battle of Maccragge was the end of the war, not the entirety of the war. The 'nids had to fight their way through the entire Segmentum, with every world in its path completely scortched.

 

And even then, you are seemingly forgetting how each fleet got bigger and stronger, and 100 percent adapted to every strategy used.

[Arkangilos]

And if I am wrong and it was literally only one chapter and a handful of regiments of PDF then THAT is terrible writing.

[Arkangilos]

"Oh no, galaxy ending threats held off by only one chapter!"

 

"Oh no! The biggest hivefleet ever singlehandedly defeated by only 25000 men AT MOST despite being the scariest thing ever dreamt of!"

[Arkangilos]

No good story would have had them win that. Just like the epic scale of the first tyrannic war is displayed as nothing more than a Tuesday when compared to WW2.

[durdle-durdle]

The point I'm trying to make isn't really that I think the blood angels should've won. The point is that they were alone against the tyranids and fighting to the death with a huge gathering of marines. I wouldn't even really be sad to see them lose and flee Baal. The problem is all the deus machina. The warp rift, chaos attacking the tyranids for some reason, and ultimately guilliman saving the day. Out of all the plot twists, it's the most unbelievable and strange choice. Here's some other options.

 

1.) Baal is destroyed, and we're a fleet based chapter now.

 

2.) the sanguinor shows up pumped up by the blood angels desperation and does a huge number on the hive fleet (possibly 1v1'ing the swarmlord like Calgar). The blood angels retreat but also carry out a last ditch rapid assault targeting hive tyrants and the like. Baal is saved.

 

3.) Dante decides "screw that, we're not fighting defensively" and throws boarding pods full of death company at the hive fleets in space. Baal falls, but the tyranids are worse off for it, having just eaten a ball of radioactive sand.

 

4.) the necrons show up and save the day, who cares. It's still not as bad as schrodingers primarch, being everywhere at once.

[The Unseen]

I'm just going to leave, since it seems quite clear that your just determined to defend really bad writing, and don't seem to mind literally every single chapter of Blood Angel Successors being effectively dead and replaced by primaris marines, and yet again Gman being the only important thing in the galaxy and every single important event, no matter how far apart, has to have him winning it.

[Arkangilos]

Sometimes in life you do win by luck, though.

 

Have you seen 9th Company? Spoiler, in it they are holding a position and have no communication with the outside. Their radio was destroyed, and they were being over run.

 

Suddenly a helicopter comes in and saves them. None of them knew they would get help. None of them knew they were going to survive. They did, though. And by accident. The helicopter was just seeing why they weren't responding.

 

Battles have been lost due to unexpected weather, as well.

I'm just going to leave, since it seems quite clear that your just determined to defend really bad writing, and don't seem to mind literally every single chapter of Blood Angel Successors being effectively dead and replaced by primaris marines, and yet again Gman being the only important thing in the galaxy and every single important event, no matter how far apart, has to have him winning it.

Confirmed, you're just jealous because you don't like the guy who saved the day.

[Arkangilos]

I mean :cuss, it's not like we haven't recovered from FIFTY marines before.

 

"But Baal is gone!"

 

Well the BA didn't always recruit from Baal in the past.

[durdle-durdle]

 

Sometimes in life you do win by luck, though.

 

Have you seen 9th Company? Spoiler, in it they are holding a position and have no communication with the outside. Their radio was destroyed, and they were being over run.

 

Suddenly a helicopter comes in and saves them. None of them knew they would get help. None of them knew they were going to survive. They did, though. And by accident. The helicopter was just seeing why they weren't responding.

 

Battles have been lost due to unexpected weather, as well.

 

That sounds a lot smaller than an entire planet with 17,500-25,000 dug in uberhumans. The problem is he keeps using him as the plot twist that saves the day.

 

 

 

I'm just going to leave, since it seems quite clear that your just determined to defend really bad writing, and don't seem to mind literally every single chapter of Blood Angel Successors being effectively dead and replaced by primaris marines, and yet again Gman being the only important thing in the galaxy and every single important event, no matter how far apart, has to have him winning it.

Confirmed, your just jealous because you don't like the guy who saved the day.

 

Yes and no. He keeps swooping in at the last moment for the win, and that's not good writing. Having someone else save the day (like maybe the afore mentioned angel being that follows them around or the flaming ghost marines) would be fine. All the fluff right now is all guilliman all the time. I wouldn't be surprised if next he shows up at Armageddon and kicks the orks out while also somehow blowing up three craft worlds and riding the flaming wreckage into the tau home planet. He's too many places at once.

[leth]

Also the ultramarines only won because half of the tyranid fleet attacked iyanden at the same time.  Even then both almost got wiped out.  If the tyranids had focused on one or the other they would have been wiped out

 

I think when you consider that we are looking at like 4 paragraphs worth of fluff when we dont have the rest of the information about what the universe looks like or even how things have changed.........

[Arkangilos]

I mean I get that complaint, true. I just don't have that big of a problem with it.

 

If it were any other commander I don't think I would see any complaints, and since that's the case it doesn't bother me.

[Battybattybats]

Folks don't forget a tendril of hive fleet leviathan was destroyed by a SINGLE phoenix lord! And it was a throwaway timeline entry in the tyranids own codex!

[Dont-Be-Haten]

I'm still digesting...

 

8 chapter masters...gone. *Every* successor chapter except the Lamenters = Legion strength.

 

It isn't that we didn't "win" it's that they almost squat the *entire* blood line.

 

The the Blood Angels are the nucleus for the successors. Both on the table top, and the lore. We can assume Alphael, Karlean, and all other captains are gone. Only the main plot armoured heroes are left. Baal and her moons are in ruin.

 

It sets up for Dante to be the legion's Lord commander. The hopelessness of this blurb and the fact it solidifies BA fully embracing RG's marines out of necessity. The oldest and best marines mankind has to offer, all gone. What keeps us unique now?

 

Months old soldiers with almost 0 knowledge of the red thirst/black rage and how to overcome it. Insert other issues my mind is coming to terms with right now.

 

I didn't want a massive victory, I wanted hope in the literal sense, and the survival of the Blood line. Now we are the primaris legion of boys in red.

 

My only saving grace is trying to explain how x company are still "regular" marines and not new found primaris. To jutify continuing to paint and assemble the minis I have.

[m0nolith]

A Deus Ex Machina story written by a child.

I hope BL a author can write a good book about it and make it decent.

I havent read Dante, but I hear Guy Haley did a good job with it.

Hope he writes it.

[Jolemai]

Keep it civil folks.

[Dont-Be-Haten]

I feel torn. I want to finish my 2nd company of Carmine Blades, but I feel just gross, saying that the 2nd most important company did not partake in the defense of Baal. Is out of the question. I could also just play them as prior to the Defense. Another option would be that the remaining survivors assimilate to the first and second companies and everything else is Primaris? I *need* more information. :(

I know I'm usually not locked into the negative lot, but I feel rather 'unsure' at the moment.

[Spagunk]

With the fortress monastery gone, we've pretty much lost everything. All our relics, all our scripts and sacred texts from Sanguinius: all gone. This makes me sad.

 

What makes this hard is that so far we've been led to believe that we have some allies uncalled for. Both the Silent King (necrons) as well as Ulthran were both written in fluff to have a vested interest in what happens to Blood Angels. I feel like we could have won the day with allies stepping in.

I'm pretty gutted at the moment. It's a very sad day for BA.

[Lord Fancy Pants]

I believe he is.

But yeah, the sequel is "The Devastation of Baal".

It will be interesting to see what happens when the Angels Sanguine actually do show up because in the Dante novel he basically excommunicated them.

It's not the Angels Sanguine he has a problem with, it's the Angels Vermillion.

 

“Dante turned Sanguinius’ frozen expression of rage upon his second captain. ‘I will not contact the Angels Vermillion. You know my feelings on that matter.”

 

Excerpt From: Haley, Guy. “Dante.” iBooks.

This material may be protected by copyright.

[Jolemai]

Hey DBH, it's your dudes, your universe, your interpretation.

 

Is Boudan going to stop churning out fantastic Lamenters models because they weren't there and may even be gone? Is Midnight Runner going to stop his phenomenal Flesh Eaters force because they vanished aeons ago? Am I going to stop using my RT and SC Marines despite them being almost half the size of a Primaris? Is Charlo going to all of a suddden paint any of his Sanguine Visions? Of course we aren't!

 

It's a bit of fluff and nothing changes. People still use Tycho despite him getting killed off. People still convert Captain Machiavelli (sp) despite him being retconned. Basically, a chabge (imo) really doesn't matter.

 

This isn't a scientific manuscript where you write it for someone else to read. You're building a collection for one person only and that's you. If you like the models, paint them up, usefulness be damned. Why should your CB lack things from the Marine range just because the PSMs are out? All of it remains legal to use and (bar Scouts) looks great - do what you want and besides, someone needs to become the best CB painter on here :)

[Lord Fancy Pants]

If you use "Dante" as canon, (which, given its recent release, I would) then the 25,000 number is way too high.

 

We already know the BAs aren't at full strength. Of the successors that Dante lists, only the Flesh Tearers and Angels Encarmime are gathering at chapter strength. The rest are sending what they can.

 

Dante himself expects only between 5 and 15 thousand available to defend Baal.

[Paikis]

After not having moved for the previous three hours, Lord Commander Dante stood from the throne in the control room of the Fortress Monastery on Baal and all movement around him ceased. On screens around the room there were long-distance pictures of the hive fleet consistently disgorging untold numbers of warrior beasts in their flesh pods. Still other screens showed scenes of the outer defenses being readied. When he spoke, his voice contained a cool, contained rage that mirrored that of the death mask that was the only face most had ever seen from him.

 

"That will be enough. Brother Rufio, launch all pods from the east wing, have them target the larger tyranid ships." He turned towards a hologram of the master of the fleet and spoke to him, "Commander Sacriel, target the larger vessels in sector 7 through 9, have the fleet launch all the special cargo."

 

"Yes, my lord," said Rufio and Sacriel as they relayed the orders.

 

Dante watched as hundreds of miniature pods were launched from the surface and the fleet, all of them targetting tyranid ships. As he watched the screens around the room, he spoke quietly to himself.

 

"You have come to destroy us. To feed on us. But you will choke on your meal. Inside those pods are the accumulated curse of over four hundred years of madness. The Blood Angels will not go quietly into the night, on those pods are one thousand, seven hundred and ninety two brothers afflicted with the curse of our father. Some believe they are fighting the arch-traitor, others suffer from the thirst. You think you know thirst? You think you know hunger?

 

We are coming for you, and our thirst knows no bounds"

 

The first of the pods made contact with the bio-vessels and tyranids died.

 

 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

And there's a better story than what we've been given so far.

[Blindhamster]

Sounds crazy but I don't have any issues with it!