vahouth Posted June 1, 2017 Share Posted June 1, 2017 In fairness they probably didn't need the hugely understrength Lamenters and their bad luck juju spoling the party anyway.. When he says it proves the bond, I think he simply means that of the many chapters asked to answer the call only one declined and that ain't too shabby. Hell, the Knights of Blood showed up and they weren't even asked (that's what I've gleaned from the interwebs, haven't read Dante yet). Imagine this for a minute... The Lamenters agreed to assist. Upon their arrival to the fortress on Baal Secundus, Dante rushes the steps down to meet the delegation and thank them in person. He slips and breaks his neck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRealMcCagh Posted June 1, 2017 Share Posted June 1, 2017 The Knights of Blood didn't get an invite but they told Dante they were coming anyways. There is only one Chapter Dante didn't send a message to and it gets a little heated when Aphael asks why not. But if the leak is to be taken literally they show up anyways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demoulius Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 Kinda hard to know what happened when we only know snippets of information. But I do agree with everyone who is annoyed by Guilliman beeing everywhere at once. Its becoming about as cliche as the inquisitor beeing the bad guy... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boudan Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 Can someone post when Dante's comments about the Lamenters is made? As in what year? That would be a new sliver of fluff about the chapter, as it suggests a) they had contact with the Blood Angels while on their penitence crusade, and depending on the timing, b) extends the possibility they are not wiped out OR that the communication with Dante is the last known interaction before their demise. I might buy this book now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helterskelter Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 Who are the canon chapters in the BA line? Is it mentioned anywhere? And I'm talking extended family so I know, tearers, vermilion, sanguine, drinkers, flesh eaters, knights of blood, lamenters and repentant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spagunk Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 Having read the leaked fluff, I am a little more at ease about things than before. I don't actually see Primaris marines replacing regular marines at all for quite some time. Most of what I read makes it seem that Primaris are just not being replaced quickly enough for now. They literally are handed off to bolster existing armies and don't actually have the ability to replenish our chapter. That said, with the lack of a recruitment pool, we are pretty toast unless we somehow are able to find tribes on Baal to use as a replacement. Our recruitment all came from Baal secundus which is toast. So the best we are going to have is a pool of citizens brought to Baal which sounds not at all possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkhanist Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 Who are the canon chapters in the BA line? Is it mentioned anywhere? And I'm talking extended family so I know, tearers, vermilion, sanguine, drinkers, flesh eaters, knights of blood, lamenters and repentant. According to lexicanium across a number of sources: Angels Encarmine, Angels Numinous, Angels Penitent (formerly the Angels Resplendent), Angels Sanguine, Angels Vermillion, Blood Drinkers, Blood Legion, Blood Swords, Brothers of the Red, Carmine Blades, Charnel Guard, Crimson Legion, Crimson Swords, Disciples of Blood, Exsanguinators, Flesh Eaters, Flesh Tearers, Golden Sons, Knights of Blood, Knights of the Chalice, Knights Sanguine, Lamenters, Red Knights, Red Wings, Scions of Sanguinius, Templars of Blood Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sockwithaticket Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 A lot of those are fairly recent inventions and crop up as a lone passing reference in something like that tiny Death Company ebook from a couple of years (?) ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkhanist Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 That's true - a good chunk come from black library books, and some are now extinct. If you stuck to those listed in the codexes, WD & Imperial Armour that leaves, I think Angels Encarmine, Angels Sanguine, Angels Vermillion, Blood Drinkers, Carmine Blades, Charnel Guard, Exsanguinators, Flesh Eaters, Flesh Tearers, Knights of Blood, Knights Sanguine and the Lamenters Knights of the Chalice are a new mostly primaris chapter, shown in the example paint scheme for MK X armour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRealMcCagh Posted June 5, 2017 Share Posted June 5, 2017 Can someone post when Dante's comments about the Lamenters is made? As in what year? That would be a new sliver of fluff about the chapter, as it suggests a) they had contact with the Blood Angels while on their penitence crusade, and depending on the timing, extends the possibility they are not wiped out OR that the communication with Dante is the last known interaction before their demise. I might buy this book now. The Chapter title has the date as 998.M41, it's on the ride back from the Cryptus System to Baal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blindhamster Posted June 5, 2017 Share Posted June 5, 2017 I now hope that devastation of Baal actually picks up after this stuff and we get some insight into what the BA do with the primaris marines and what they do to try and restore their world (If anything). A book covering the events of the block text will be less exciting because we know the outcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indefragable Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 I now hope that devastation of Baal actually picks up after this stuff and we get some insight into what the BA do with the primaris marines and what they do to try and restore their world (If anything). A book covering the events of the block text will be less exciting because we know the outcome. Now that it dawns on me, Guy Haley writing both Dante/Devestation of Baal and Dark Imperium could bode quite well for us, making sure the BA don't get lost in the other stuff. Or just the opposite... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRealMcCagh Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 All we really know about Baal is the very end though, I'd like to see how events transpired to end up there. The Horus Heresy isn't less exciting because we know the end result. Although I do want to see the Primaris interaction and what the BA and their successors think of them. How the Flaw effects them would also be nice to find out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain_Krash Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 Neat to see Lamenters mentioned by our "Parent" chapter we never get enough love :( the fact Dante even asked for there help in the first place is nice. I hope this may retcon the "Contact lost to nids noming them" snipit Krash Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demoulius Posted June 10, 2017 Share Posted June 10, 2017 About Baal beeing scoured. The admech has the ability to terraform entire worlds back from the brim. Id say a planet of such importance as an Astartes recruitement world would be pretty high up on the list to get some much needed attention. And it doesent need the whole 9 yards either. We need a deathworld as a recruitement world gosh darmnit! It breeds hardier and more noble warriors (imho anyway...) then those born in luxury... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dont-Be-Haten Posted June 10, 2017 Share Posted June 10, 2017 About Baal beeing scoured. The admech has the ability to terraform entire worlds back from the brim. Id say a planet of such importance as an Astartes recruitement world would be pretty high up on the list to get some much needed attention. And it doesent need the whole 9 yards either. We need a deathworld as a recruitement world gosh darmnit! It breeds hardier and more noble warriors (imho anyway...) then those born in luxury... *cough* Ultramar *cough* Paradise* worlds and great warriors. *former paradise Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleon Posted June 11, 2017 Share Posted June 11, 2017 The more I think about it, the more I'm convinced that 'in setting' (GW Financials may force the story to say otherwise) Dante would go all out to rebuild the Chapter with traditional Astartes, keeping the Primaris provided by RG as a stop gap/extra formation (maybe recruit Astartes/Primaris at around 4:1 ratio). I can't imagine he'd risk the future of the chapter on committing to Primaris before they've been fighting for a couple of generations - what happens if the flaw kicks in HARD at 300 years old on Primaris and you don't have a supply of regular Astartes Gene-seed - Game over for the Chapter. As the Primaris prove themselves to be valid and stable in the long term then I'd expect them to get ramped up and the ratio start to shift, with it being a couple of generations (and maybe untiil a Primaris has proved himself worthy of promotion to Captain 'through the ranks' instead of being a 'Primaris Captian' that the ratio starts to shift. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RainbowWarrior Posted June 11, 2017 Share Posted June 11, 2017 1) Crossing the Cicatrix Maledictum, which the Fluff was building up as such a huge thing, is apparently already accomplished by the Crusade super early, and the planet in need of most help, Baal, already got saved right at the start. The Indomitus Crusade is looking to me like its just too good, it just seems to overcome everything effortlessly so its tough to think of the Imperium as in trouble when Roboute is apparently just curb-stomping everything and already crossing the Massive Warp Storm with his whole army. Other than that I think we actually got a good showing. Although doesn't some of this now contradict fluff from Dante's recent novel? I completely agree with point one. There was so much build up! The Cryptus supplement and the novel Dante created such great hype that to have such an short blurb reveal the conclusion is sad and truly unfitting. I hope they release a novel detailing the incident so we can understand what happened at a more intricate level. I think not living up to the build up is a casualty of the switch from a setting to an ongoing narrative. When the clock was stuck at 999.m41, you could throw as much as you wanted at a faction, Hive Fleets, Ork Waaaghs, your homeworld turning out to be a Necron tomb world. Impossible odds. And you'd never have pull the trigger and resolve the story. The Blood Angels and their successors were put in a scenario that there was arguably no way to realistically survive. But while the setting was fixed, nobody had to come up with a way for them to do so. With the switch to an ongoing story, a resolution had to be found, and obviously they weren't going to drop one of their most popular Chapters. I think any resolution, Guilleman or otherwise, would have felt a bit flat simply because of the direness of the situation the Angels were in. The more I think about it, the more I'm convinced that 'in setting' (GW Financials may force the story to say otherwise) Dante would go all out to rebuild the Chapter with traditional Astartes, keeping the Primaris provided by RG as a stop gap/extra formation (maybe recruit Astartes/Primaris at around 4:1 ratio). I can't imagine he'd risk the future of the chapter on committing to Primaris before they've been fighting for a couple of generations - what happens if the flaw kicks in HARD at 300 years old on Primaris and you don't have a supply of regular Astartes Gene-seed - Game over for the Chapter. As the Primaris prove themselves to be valid and stable in the long term then I'd expect them to get ramped up and the ratio start to shift, with it being a couple of generations (and maybe untiil a Primaris has proved himself worthy of promotion to Captain 'through the ranks' instead of being a 'Primaris Captian' that the ratio starts to shift. GW can have their cake and eat it in this situation, thanks to the use of time jumps. They can skip ahead another century when talking about Blood Angel Primaris marines, and leave a gap for the Black Library to delve into Dante having misgivings, or internal strife over the arrival of the new guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demoulius Posted June 11, 2017 Share Posted June 11, 2017 About Baal beeing scoured. The admech has the ability to terraform entire worlds back from the brim. Id say a planet of such importance as an Astartes recruitement world would be pretty high up on the list to get some much needed attention. And it doesent need the whole 9 yards either. We need a deathworld as a recruitement world gosh darmnit! It breeds hardier and more noble warriors (imho anyway...) then those born in luxury... *cough* Ultramar *cough* Paradise* worlds and great warriors. *former paradise Kinda what I was hinting at :P im sure the Ultramarines are fine Astartes but they dont have internal conflicts of the soul and arent tormented by their own genes like the Blood Angels are. The hubris of growing up on a paradise world (even if its now a former paradise world :P ) and thinking you are the pinacle of humanity would give them such a severe culture shock when they found out that they are infact, flawed.... that I seriously doubt that many would even stand a chance of overcoming it. The Blood Angels are flawed but their homeworld if nothing else ensures that they are noble of spirit and are a hardy sort. Alot hardier then one who would live in the comforts of a paradise world and who wouldnt have any issues surviving because they arent beeing attacked by gigantic scorpions. Arent constantly blasted by radiation and dont have to contend with rival humans and cannibals who are also trying to survive... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaplain Gunzhard Posted June 11, 2017 Share Posted June 11, 2017 On the live twitch stream they were saying how Guilliman and the Primarus are going to be used first to replenish depleted and devastated chapters. In the current story we are the font and center depleted and devastated chapter. Who knows... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demoulius Posted June 11, 2017 Share Posted June 11, 2017 I havent read the stories yet (and am not sure where to find them... in novels?) but the Primaris marines still have to be 'made' with geneseed before hand right? So if they want to replenish chapters with primaris marines from a certain geneseed they would have needed to know before hand how many primaris marines were needed. Unless they just use generic genestock and hand them out to whomever can use them? Im confused Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pandion40 Posted June 11, 2017 Share Posted June 11, 2017 I havent read the stories yet (and am not sure where to find them... in novels?) but the Primaris marines still have to be 'made' with geneseed before hand right? So if they want to replenish chapters with primaris marines from a certain geneseed they would have needed to know before hand how many primaris marines were needed. Unless they just use generic genestock and hand them out to whomever can use them? Im confused :huh:A lot of info in this novel http://www.blacklibrary.com/all-products/dark-imperium-the-last-faithful-son-ebook.html It's ultramarine centric but basically Guilliman sent half the Primaris out straight away to reinforce and form new chapters. the rest went on a crusade with him, he called them the unnumbered sons, they called themselves Greyshields. they were dressed in the Livery of there founding primarchs but with grey chevrons on one shoulder pad. I can't remember for sure how many but definitely in the 10's of thousands. At the end of the indomitus crusede there were 20,000 left. They were then split up and sent to existing chapters or formed new ones. As he met under strength chapters he'd take some marines decended from the correct primarch out of the unnumbered sons and make them part of the under strength chapter. Also if he ran into a situation that needed a chapter stationed there long term he'd create one from the unnumbered sons on the fly and leave them behind. The primaris marines were created from aspirants to the various legions after the heresy, there was a space wolf in the novel from fenris and the main ultramarine was a boy who was going to join the ultramarine legion before he was requisitioned. They've been on ice 10,000 years. The primaris do have gene seed, from the novel they only have 3 extra organs over the older marines. Though there may be other differences in the creation process not detailed. I compare them to cars in my head. The older marines are the basic model and the primaris are a new more expensive sport version. Basically the same car but with extra bells and whistles to improve performance. We'll probably learn more when the new edition is released Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demoulius Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 Wait up, hold the phone... They are 10k years old now? I seem to renember reading (on the web) that they needed 10k years to perfect the technology? Also he had a legion-sized force of super astartes in hibernation and noone in 10k years found out about it.... Im really starting to hate this lore as its stupid on so many levels, even for 40k lore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blindhamster Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 its pretty cool IMO, I love the idea of a mad scientist that has literally been hiding away tinkering for all this time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pandion40 Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 Wait up, hold the phone... They are 10k years old now? I seem to renember reading (on the web) that they needed 10k years to perfect the technology? :huh: Also he had a legion-sized force of super astartes in hibernation and noone in 10k years found out about it.... Im really starting to hate this lore as its stupid on so many levels, even for 40k lore <_< Don't know if their all that old but the ones we do have ages for are all just post heresy when Guilliman was still around. Which makes sense as they would have needed orders from the head of the imperium to get the Legions/chapters to give them aspirants. That doesn't mean they were turned into primaris then. They could have been stored as normal humans until the process was perfected and then transformed any time in the last ten thousand years. I don't recall it being said when they were transformed. One interesting thing is both Russ and the Khan were still around after Guilliman died. So they almost certainly knew about and supported Guillimans plan. I can't see either giving up Aspirants from their home systems for a project they disagreed with or were ignorant of. Having said that I kind of like the idea there were thousands apon thousands of marine+ on ice for thousands of years while the imperium slowly decayed because there was nobody around to authorise their deployment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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