leth Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 Having said that I kind of like the idea there were thousands apon thousands of marine+ on ice for thousands of years while the imperium slowly decayed because there was nobody around to authorise their deployment. Now THAT is the imperium we know and love Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333952-fate-of-baal/page/9/#findComment-4781534 Share on other sites More sharing options...
NTaW Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 Having said that I kind of like the idea there were thousands apon thousands of marine+ on ice for thousands of years while the imperium slowly decayed because there was nobody around to authorise their deployment. This made me laugh in the auto shop waiting room. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333952-fate-of-baal/page/9/#findComment-4781597 Share on other sites More sharing options...
sockwithaticket Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 One interesting thing is both Russ and the Khan were still around after Guilliman died. So they almost certainly knew about and supported Guillimans plan. Err, that seems like a bit of a logic leap, unless there's some other info? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333952-fate-of-baal/page/9/#findComment-4781887 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pandion40 Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 One interesting thing is both Russ and the Khan were still around after Guilliman died. So they almost certainly knew about and supported Guillimans plan. Err, that seems like a bit of a logic leap, unless there's some other info? No other information, just my reasoning from the part of the paragraph you cut out. I can't see either Russ or the Khan giving up Aspirants from their home systems for a project they disagreed with or were ignorant of, and there were allot of primaris marines from fenris, one was a character and it was implied many more had returned to Fenris. Both Primarchs were definitely still around as Guilliman wonders what they will do without him as he lays dying. He could have lied to them but I find it unlikely both are possessive of their Marines and wouldn't have given up aspirants lightly, the possible consequences if either found out at a later date would have been to great a risk for someone as pragmatic as Guilliman. In my opinion he would have asked his remaining brothers to support his plans and if they refused just not make Primaris Marines from their legions. It's just my opinion, I've been wrong before and will be again. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333952-fate-of-baal/page/9/#findComment-4781953 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boudan Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 Can someone post when Dante's comments about the Lamenters is made? As in what year? That would be a new sliver of fluff about the chapter, as it suggests a) they had contact with the Blood Angels while on their penitence crusade, and depending on the timing, B) extends the possibility they are not wiped out OR that the communication with Dante is the last known interaction before their demise. I might buy this book now. The Chapter title has the date as 998.M41, it's on the ride back from the Cryptus System to Baal This is huge, the Lamenters have apparently survived five years later than previously known. :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333952-fate-of-baal/page/9/#findComment-4782229 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sun Reaver Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 Can someone post when Dante's comments about the Lamenters is made? As in what year? That would be a new sliver of fluff about the chapter, as it suggests a) they had contact with the Blood Angels while on their penitence crusade, and depending on the timing, extends the possibility they are not wiped out OR that the communication with Dante is the last known interaction before their demise. I might buy this book now. The Chapter title has the date as 998.M41, it's on the ride back from the Cryptus System to Baal This is huge, the Lamenters have apparently survived five years later than previously known. The book says the Lamenter's didn't answer the call if I'm not mistaken. This could mean there was no one there to answer it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333952-fate-of-baal/page/9/#findComment-4783219 Share on other sites More sharing options...
sockwithaticket Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 One interesting thing is both Russ and the Khan were still around after Guilliman died. So they almost certainly knew about and supported Guillimans plan.Err, that seems like a bit of a logic leap, unless there's some other info? No other information, just my reasoning from the part of the paragraph you cut out. I can't see either Russ or the Khan giving up Aspirants from their home systems for a project they disagreed with or were ignorant of, and there were allot of primaris marines from fenris, one was a character and it was implied many more had returned to Fenris. Both Primarchs were definitely still around as Guilliman wonders what they will do without him as he lays dying. He could have lied to them but I find it unlikely both are possessive of their Marines and wouldn't have given up aspirants lightly, the possible consequences if either found out at a later date would have been to great a risk for someone as pragmatic as Guilliman. In my opinion he would have asked his remaining brothers to support his plans and if they refused just not make Primaris Marines from their legions. It's just my opinion, I've been wrong before and will be again. Just trying to conserve page space by cutting down the quote. Maybe I've missed something, but how do we know that non-UM geneseed was used from the get-go? Perhaps Cawl used tithed gene-seed from other chapters at a later date once the process had been figured out with the Ultras and by this point there were no Primarchs around to approve or disapprove of the project they possibly didn't even know existed. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333952-fate-of-baal/page/9/#findComment-4783249 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boudan Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 From the novel Dante regarding the Lamenters; 'I have contacted the Lamenters. They responded unfavorably. If they were of a mind to obey our call, they are too depleted to help us,' said Dante. 'It is a sign of the bond between the Chapters of the Blood that they are the only ones to say no. While such brotherhood persists, we might prevail.' I'm not sure what he meant by a sign of the bond after saying the Lamenters refused. But after reading Cleon's comment, maybe he is okay with them not showing up because they are on a penance crusade. And no true Sons of Sanguinius would break their oaths to the Imperium, even if it is to protect their homeworld. I interpreted TRM's quotes from Dante to suggest that Dante literally spoke with Lamenters leadership of some sort. Probably the guys from my head canon... in my mind I am GWs lead (and only) Lamenters writer, per my written proposal of recent year past. ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333952-fate-of-baal/page/9/#findComment-4783250 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sun Reaver Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 From the novel Dante regarding the Lamenters; 'I have contacted the Lamenters. They responded unfavorably. If they were of a mind to obey our call, they are too depleted to help us,' said Dante. 'It is a sign of the bond between the Chapters of the Blood that they are the only ones to say no. While such brotherhood persists, we might prevail.' I'm not sure what he meant by a sign of the bond after saying the Lamenters refused. But after reading Cleon's comment, maybe he is okay with them not showing up because they are on a penance crusade. And no true Sons of Sanguinius would break their oaths to the Imperium, even if it is to protect their homeworld. I interpreted TRM's quotes from Dante to suggest that Dante literally spoke with Lamenters leadership of some sort. Probably the guys from my head canon... in my mind I am GWs lead (and only) Lamenters writer, per my written proposal of recent year past. The quote does imply a conversation took place, specifically the word contact. I guess they really did say no. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333952-fate-of-baal/page/9/#findComment-4783290 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boudan Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 From the novel Dante regarding the Lamenters; 'I have contacted the Lamenters. They responded unfavorably. If they were of a mind to obey our call, they are too depleted to help us,' said Dante. 'It is a sign of the bond between the Chapters of the Blood that they are the only ones to say no. While such brotherhood persists, we might prevail.' I'm not sure what he meant by a sign of the bond after saying the Lamenters refused. But after reading Cleon's comment, maybe he is okay with them not showing up because they are on a penance crusade. And no true Sons of Sanguinius would break their oaths to the Imperium, even if it is to protect their homeworld. I interpreted TRM's quotes from Dante to suggest that Dante literally spoke with Lamenters leadership of some sort. Probably the guys from my head canon... in my mind I am GWs lead (and only) Lamenters writer, per my written proposal of recent year past. ;) The quote does imply a conversation took place, specifically the word contact. I guess they really did say no. They are on a penitence crusade, so I think it would be a fairly safe assumption that they can't come to defend their brethren as they are honor-bound to keep crusadin'. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333952-fate-of-baal/page/9/#findComment-4783407 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sun Reaver Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 From the novel Dante regarding the Lamenters; 'I have contacted the Lamenters. They responded unfavorably. If they were of a mind to obey our call, they are too depleted to help us,' said Dante. 'It is a sign of the bond between the Chapters of the Blood that they are the only ones to say no. While such brotherhood persists, we might prevail.' I'm not sure what he meant by a sign of the bond after saying the Lamenters refused. But after reading Cleon's comment, maybe he is okay with them not showing up because they are on a penance crusade. And no true Sons of Sanguinius would break their oaths to the Imperium, even if it is to protect their homeworld. I interpreted TRM's quotes from Dante to suggest that Dante literally spoke with Lamenters leadership of some sort. Probably the guys from my head canon... in my mind I am GWs lead (and only) Lamenters writer, per my written proposal of recent year past. The quote does imply a conversation took place, specifically the word contact. I guess they really did say no. They are on a penitence crusade, so I think it would be a fairly safe assumption that they can't come to defend their brethren as they are honor-bound to keep crusadin'. Totally understand, but they couldn't even send a squad? A token force showing support to their primogenitor would've been much appreciated in Dante's eyes I'd imagine. 5-10 extra marines could make the difference in an engagement. Granted, there are "unending" hordes of Tyranids but still, you never know. Right? EDIT: Grammar. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333952-fate-of-baal/page/9/#findComment-4783623 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonaides Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 Dont forget they are under total inquisitorial control. A particular inquisitor may have deemed that they dont deserve the honour of defending baal, or that the stain to their honour is another part of their pennance. Just pointing out that they may have wanted to come but have been prevented. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333952-fate-of-baal/page/9/#findComment-4783698 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sun Reaver Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 Dont forget they are under total inquisitorial control. A particular inquisitor may have deemed that they dont deserve the honour of defending baal, or that the stain to their honour is another part of their pennance. Just pointing out that they may have wanted to come but have been prevented. True enough, that could very well be the case. I am quite interested about the fate of the Knights of Blood. Will they redeem themselves in the light of the Imperium from defending Baal? Or will they valiantly go out to a man defending the homeworld? And if they do survive, what will Guilliman say to them? Will he forgive them and allow them to be reinstated and reinforced by Primaris marines? So many questions! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333952-fate-of-baal/page/9/#findComment-4784010 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Father Mapple Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 5-10 extra marines could make the difference in an engagement. Granted, there are "unending" hordes of Tyranids but still, you never know. Right? Are they marines in Lore or marines on the tabletop? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333952-fate-of-baal/page/9/#findComment-4784025 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sun Reaver Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 5-10 extra marines could make the difference in an engagement. Granted, there are "unending" hordes of Tyranids but still, you never know. Right? Are they marines in Lore or marines on the tabletop? They would use the movie marines rules with preferred enemy Tyranids haha Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/333952-fate-of-baal/page/9/#findComment-4784028 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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