8th Edition Rules/Datasheets for BAs leaked

[Bartali]

I was looking at the points. Do sergeants cost the same as regular troops in the squad. I cant find anything about them costing more in matched play.

 

It's a 'free' upgrade, although I'd imagine they've factored it in to the cost of a single marine. Just buy 5 regular marines, one becomes the sergeant 

[Quixus]

 

I was looking at the points. Do sergeants cost the same as regular troops in the squad. I cant find anything about them costing more in matched play.

 

It's a 'free' upgrade, although I'd imagine they've factored it in to the cost of a single marine. Just buy 5 regular marines, one becomes the sergeant 

 

Hmm there is this "not enough models" rule. Seems I do not have enough regular marines but lots of sergeants all with combi weapons.... MSU FTW

 

Of course this is blatant rules abuse but GW really does not have to make rules that are so easily exploited.

Edited June 1, 2017 by Quixus

[NTaW]

The con to small units of course is the potentially devastating effect a failed morale test can have.

[Bartali]

I'd argue MSU is far better for Battleshock, minimises the damage. If you've lost that many marines from a 5 man squad that you can't make the battleshock test (with a re-roll) then it's likely that unit is dead anyway.

 

Loosing five marines from a 10 man squad is far more potentially damaging for a battleshock roll.

[Helias_Tancred]

It looks like nothing can carry Primaris tbh.

 

well apart from the Primaris rhino that is.

 

Its because they are going to release several new vehicles, and built into their selling point is the fact they can carry Primaris ;)

 

Oh those wily folk at Nottingham with their genius marketing ploys.

[Syrex]

PSA unless I'm blind.

Upgrade all your Sanguinary Guard to plasma pistols and actually save 2ppm over angelus bolsters.

Coz..... reasons

[Cleon]

 

Hmm there is this "not enough models" rule. Seems I do not have enough regular marines but lots of sergeants all with combi weapons.... MSU FTW

 

 

Of course this is blatant rules abuse but GW really does not have to make rules that are so easily exploited.

 

 

'not enough models' letss you field under strength units if you don't have the models, you still have to pay the point for the minimum squad size.

[Spagunk]

Personally, they should have kept the point costs the same and just gave the overcharge ability. Otherwise they should have reduced price, made the thing str 6, ap -1 in normal mode and then made overcharge str 7 ap-2 with the gets hot rules.  To have both was a bad idea.

[Quixus]

 

 

Hmm there is this "not enough models" rule. Seems I do not have enough regular marines but lots of sergeants all with combi weapons.... MSU FTW

 

 

Of course this is blatant rules abuse but GW really does not have to make rules that are so easily exploited.

 

 

'not enough models' letss you field under strength units if you don't have the models, you still have to pay the point for the minimum squad size.

 

Thanks for clearing that up. The rule is not as stupid as I thought.

Edited June 1, 2017 by Quixus

[Arkangilos]

 

 

Assault squads? You mean Veteran Space Marines with Jump Packs, right?

It's either swapping weapons or swapping helmets. You kinda have to do one.

 

Good job GW, nerf an army that was not that good for two editions and wasn't even problematic in 5th.

You don't have to swap the heads, though.

 

Honestly I wouldn't swap anything until the codex comes out and we are for sure not getting meltacide. Until then either ask your opponent if they will allow it or just play them as veterans.

 

Most reasonable opponents should say it will be fine.

[Father Mapple]

Thanks for the replies about jump packs for Death Company and Assault Marines, but where is the Librarian point cost for a jump pack?

 

EDIT: Nevermind, SAME PLACE. I BE DUM. DEPR DEPR.

Edited June 1, 2017 by Father Mapple

[Father Mapple]

Ok, I've been working on trying to convert the lists I had built/was painting to in previous edition into the new 8th points. It takes a while to do this without Battlescribe!

 

In 7th edition, I was making an Archangel's Battle Company with Terminators and Stormravens. 2000pts was the following: Cpt in Term armor with CF/LC; 15 Tactical Terminators with 3x CF and 2x Assault Cannons, 1x Heavy Flamer; 10 Assault Terminators with split of LC and TH/SS; 2 Stormravens, 1 with hurricane bolters; 2 Furiosos in Drop Pods, 1 with frag cannon and heavy flamer, the other with fists and meltagun.

 

In 8th edition, I can't quite make the following fit in 2000pts: Cpt in Terminator armor with CF and stormbolter; 10 Tactical Terminators with 2 CF, 2 Assault Cannons, 10 Assault Terminators with a split of LC and TH/SS, 2 Stormravens with mix of weapons, 1 with hurricane bolters; 2 Furiosos, 1 with frag cannon and meltagun/heavy flamer on a fist, 1 with pair of fists and meltagun/heavy flamer and stormbolter.

 

Points definitely went UP overall for my list.

 

Bonus is... now I just need to paint 5 terminators instead of 12 more to have a complete list.

[Arkhanist]

 

 

Assault squads? You mean Veteran Space Marines with Jump Packs, right?

It's either swapping weapons or swapping helmets. You kinda have to do one.

 

Good job GW, nerf an army that was not that good for two editions and wasn't even problematic in 5th.

You don't have to swap the heads, though.

 

Honestly I wouldn't swap anything until the codex comes out and we are for sure not getting meltacide. Until then either ask your opponent if they will allow it or just play them as veterans.

 

Most reasonable opponents should say it will be fine.

 

 

Yellow and gold are the same, heraldry wise. Back in the day, BA veteran assault squads (vanguard vets today) had yellow helmets IIRC. So just keep the yellow helmet marines and use them as company vets for meltacide. Call them a tribute to the old scheme if anyone complains - after all, the chapter did just get almost entirely slaughtered, so everybody left alive would be a vet now ;) Just make sure it's obvious which squads are vets and which are 'fresh blood' vanilla assault marines if you decide to run both.

[Orblivion]

Why does Dante not have a single unique ability, and why did the Hit & Run replacement go to the Sanguinor instead of Dante?

[Terminal Maxocity]

Hi just double checking I'm reading the list correctly: the only flyer available to us is still just the Stormraven?

[Father Mapple]

Only flyer that will have the Blood Angels key word, but you can incorporate the other flyers from Space Marines, but they won't benefit from the rerolls from captains, or benefits based on the blood angels key word that work like that.

[Quixus]

Does anything that requires the BA keyword even work on vehicles?

[Father Mapple]

Dante's, Tycho's, and Astorath's ability to reroll to hit rolls (not any kind of to hit rolls, so combat and shooting) just says "Blood Angel units" not infantry, or death company, like Lemartes and Sanguinor specify. Corbulo's additional attack ability is just a units buff int he fight phase, meaning a Dreadnought/Furioso could use it.

 

So Furisosos and Predators benefit from Dante, Tycho, and Astorath, Furiosos benefit from Corbulo's too, except the Grail/Chalice strength buff which is infantry only .

 

Also, psychic powers all work on blood angels units, so you could give your whirlwind +1 Attack. For... some... reason....

[Silverson]

Are we basing us getting access to other units based on key words? Using the battalion detachment as an example2-3 hq, 3-6 troops, 0-6 elites 0-3 fa and heavy, 02 flyers.

 

A list using now blood angels units could be.

Hq- Mephiston

Hq- sanguinor

Troop- tac squad

Troop- tac squad

Troop- scout squad

Heavy support- centurion devastators

 

Now under 7th edition rules this would not be possible because centurion devistators are not accessable to blood angels so would make the list unbound.

Under 8th edition rules (from what I understand what people are saying) is that this is still complying to the detachment because all you need to comply is a single faction key word present on all the data sheets in this case "imperium" and "adeptus astartus"

 

To add to this the only negative to this load out is that the devistators would not be able to benefit from any of the abilities that target faction "blood angels"

 

 

And this thinking will be transferable to and and all armies using detachments as long as they all share a common key word.

And extreme version of this using the battalion attachment could be

 

Hq- deathwatch watch master

Hq- sanguinary priest

Troops- imperial guard veterans

Troops- skitarii vanguards

Troops- blood claws

Elites- vindicate assassin

 

Because they all share the sam faction "imperium"

 

Please correct me if this is inaccurate please folks

Thanks

[NTaW]

It has been stated by WC that the more specific the Faction keyword you have for a Detachment the more bonuses you get, but we don't have any info on what those bonuses might be. As of now with the leaks that I have seen you can build a faction <adeptus astartes> or faction <imperium> list with units from all sorts of Codices, but there may be things that happen or don't based on how many sub-factions there are within your Detachment.

 

Or maybe, as you've said, the other models just don't get the various rule bonuses. I guess we'll find out for certain when Codex books start being released..?

[Father Mapple]

Please correct me if this is inaccurate please folks

Thanks

 

That looks accurate to me. Also, remember when you do a list like this, you can't enter each other's transports since those seem to be tied to specific key words like Rhinos to <chapter> or <order>. 

 

And MOST psychic abilities I've looked at are very key word specific. The Blood Angel psychic abilities only work on Blood Angels or enemies, but the #2 Inquisitor's psychic power works on anyone with the Imperium key word. IG orders only work with keyword <regiment> and such.

[Chaplain Gunzhard]

Seeing all of the rest of the SM armies does actually make me feel a little better about BA.

 

What I don't like is needing our goofy characters like Astorath, Sanguinir and Mephiston to really take advantage of our units.

 

That and no drop pods for all our short ranged and CC dreads. They're useless walking slowly across the table.

 

The rest I can totally live with for the sake of balance and simplicity.

[Arkhanist]

And this thinking will be transferable to and and all armies using detachments as long as they all share a common key word.

And extreme version of this using the battalion attachment could be

 

Hq- deathwatch watch master

Hq- sanguinary priest

Troops- imperial guard veterans

Troops- skitarii vanguards

Troops- blood claws

Elites- vindicate assassin

 

Because they all share the sam faction "imperium"

 

Please correct me if this is inaccurate please folks

Thanks

 

Basically, as stated, this is how it's written in the core rules. All units in a Detachment need to share a keyword; in our case, it's imperium, astartes or blood angels. In the SM book, you pick which chapter a given SM unit belongs to, but there are restrictions, so there are no BA centurions, cataphractii etc. This does mean they can't share any chapter specific HQ buffs.

 

For example, you can take girlyman in your hypothetical detachment - and all imperium units within 12" get +1 to advance and charge rolls. But only ultramarines (within 6") get to reroll hit and wound dice. And only BA infantry/bikes can take advantage of a BA priest for +1S etc.

 

On the individual transports, you pick a chapter for it, and they can only transport that chapter's models (along with additional restrictions, i.e. no JPs in rhinos etc)

 

In future codexes, there are supposedly going to be additional strategems (i.e. things to spend command points on) that can only be used on units with appropriate keywords, with imperium getting some, astartes getting better ones, and chapter specific ones getting the best ones - so blood angel strategems can only apply to blood angel units, not other astartes or imperium (it sounds like they may replace chapter tactics). But we have to wait for the codexes for those.

Edited June 1, 2017 by Arkhanist

[simison]

Question, the rules right now, do they allow a unit to charge a unit when they shot a different unit?

[Brother_Angelus]

You can charge any unit with 12", no longer bound to who you've shot at. But everyone can split fire now, so it would have been easy to work around anyway.

 

 

As for the key-words, it'll likely end up like AoS with better benefits for choose an army with only specific keywords like <Blood Angels> over generic ones like <Astartes> or <Imperium>.

Edited June 2, 2017 by Brother_Angelus