8th Edition Rules/Datasheets for BAs leaked

[Charlo]

 

 

I'd like to thank the lead designer for lying to me about Cataphractii and Tartaros  

 

 

Charlo, grenade harnesses and plasma blasters are on the wargear list. Is it possible that Terminators are wrapped up into a single unit entry with all armour types

 

Aye, they're in the generic space marine wargear list.

 

While we do use that, we also do not have Cataphractii/ Tartaros terminators listed in our allowed units for Blood Angels so they aren't one entry.

[CaptainHelion]

Yeah, I just looked at the generic Space Marine unit list, and there they are, both Cataphractii and Tartaros. :\

[Paikis]

The list of things we can take doesn't include rather important things like Tactical Squads or scouts either. Wait some more and see?\

 

EDIT: The list of our stuff does say we can take Space Marines things from pages 202-203... The list of Space Marines stuff that leaked includes the Primaris marines in the same list as Stalkers, Hunters, Centurions and Thunderfire Cannons...

 

Maybe we *are* getting access to the things?

Edited May 30, 2017 by Paikis

[Bartali]

Is a Priest/Corbulo just and auto include now? that Blood Chalice and Narthecium are incredible, a constant +1 Str and being able to bring back models.

 

Nope. You're essentially paying for a 4+ FNP on one model only, and for added chuckles if you fail the 50/50 roll the Priest doesn't get to act in that turn. Wouldn't bother taking a Priest now.

 

It seems as though FNP has been nerfed across the board, and I suspect we have deathstars to thank for that.

[RedemptionNL]

The list of things we can take doesn't include rather important things like Tactical Squads or scouts either. Wait some more and see?\

EDIT: The list of our stuff does say we can take Space Marines things from pages 202-203... The list of Space Marines stuff that leaked includes the Primaris marines in the same list as Stalkers, Hunters, Centurions and Thunderfire Cannons...

Maybe we *are* getting access to the things?

Not sure what list you're looking at, but Tactical Squads and Scouts are on the list:

Hidden Content

[Paikis]

Clearly I was looking at the wrong list. Welp, back to feeling kinda 'meh' about this edition.

[Fidelius Animo]

Well for what it's worth, it appears easier in 8th to take multiple factions.

 

Barring any more information about Blood Angel stratagems or whatever warlord traits requiring 100% Blood Angel Detachments, its kind of how I plan using relics/forge world models.

 

For example you can run D.C. Detachment, Sang Guard Detachment, furioso Dreadnaught Detachment etc and still pair them with say a Legion of the Damned Detachment or a Knight Detachment

 

This gets you basically as many CPs as the battalion battle forged list.

 

 

Only restrictions will be Tournament imposed restrictions

[Charlo]

So I've tried to be a little positive, here is some synergy and thoughts I've noticed straight away:

 

I don't think BA suck by any means... A few of our premier outlying tactics (Drop pod Frag Cannons, Massed Flamers, Quad Melta Assault Squads) have seemingly gone, but Sanguinary guard became very nice and if you sprinkle around heroes and psychic support everything is a little more killy than it was before. Special pistols are very powerful this edition, especially when inferno pistols have a real chance to gib even Dreadnoughts in close combat.

 

That said, losing +1S and I on the charge sucks (though the latter not as much as we just strike first) and while it is available through sanguinary priests, it's a little boring.

 

Death Company are no longer loyalist Khorne Berzerkers and I think the change to a 6+ FNP is a massive disappointment considering they were one of the pioneer units of FNP before it had a universal name. Only getting 3 attacks on the charge per DC makes me sad. We also lost the Death Company specific chaplain.

 

But as with all things Blood Angel; in the darkness there is also light, Lemartes became a buffing MONSTER and is particularly insane when you consider the Death Company Dreadnought...

 

When Lemartes is nearby all Death Company untis can re-roll failed charge and to-hit rolls. Combine this with the fact a Death Company Dread has a Magna Grapple, which adds 2 to it's charge rolls when charging vehicles. Then consider the DC dread causes D6 damage per hit at -3AP, not much want's to be on the end of that. THEN you realise the DC dread has a hilarious unique rule meaning it can consolidate 6".

 

What happens when you add all of this together? WELL. It means your DC Dread pods in, has to make an 8" charge against a vehicle with a re-roll and if it makes it, can eventually consolidate 6" into the enemies battleline which is madness.

 

Now picture you have unlocked the armory and have 3 or more such dreads.

[dread05]

Maybe they'll give the double melta's to the vanguard. You know, make them proper assault veterans.

[Poppaby]

I wonder why the DC Chaplain suddenly vanished? No rules for Karlean either.

[Charlo]

I wonder why the DC Chaplain suddenly vanished? No rules for Karlean either.

 

If you go to the webstore, he's now just a "BA Chaplain with Jump Pack."

 

Karlean "lost" his rules a while back (sort of), like the chaplain he's just a "Terminator Captain."

[Arkangilos]

Well definitely not a fan. No more Red Thirst is trash. No more fearless DC is trash (yay, our DC run away now! Because if there is anything Sanguinius did it was that!). Only three psychic powers.

No more Death Mask of Sanguinius.

Heavy flamers aren't assault. Storm bolters aren't assault (there went my "terminators got better because they could always advance while firing). Hand flamers became absolute :cuss.

 

And Dante has nothing to show for his 1500 years of service -.-

Edited May 30, 2017 by Arkangilos

[Calistarius]

Yeah this is a total bummer... Its insane how quickly this sucked my excitement and enthusiasm out of this new edition.  I was, naively now it seems, hoping that we Blood Angels would be rewarded for patience and playing behind the curve for a while now.   I recognize that some of these changes were a necessity.  I feel bad for those that purchased the Lost Brotherhood Strike Force box, or converted a bunch in order to field mass DC. I know I regret it.

 

My thoughts:

- Frag Cannon Furiosos still seem like a legitimate take.  It may not be ideal to drop pod them, but we still have the Storm Raven as a means of delivery. 

- Death Company were definitely nerfed, but those with chainswords will still get 4 attacks when charging, or more if the Sanguinor is nearby.

- It is nice to see Lemartes and Astorath are feasible again.  Combine the two for some really nice buffs.

- I couldn't be more disappointed about the rules for Dante.  I was beyond excited about his potential after reading the novel a couple of months ago.  He was fantastic in 7th, albeit overpriced.  I would include him in nearly every 2000+ point game I played though, and never regretted it.  Now I can't see a reason to even consider taking him again.  Leadership 9 for a 1500+ year experienced chapter master that has been dubbed as THE example for tactical and martial prowess? Seriously?  Looks like he won't see the table unless its for a narrative game.  At least he isn't a Lord of War anymore. 

- I could have over looked something here, but if you look at our allowed units there is no indication that a librarian or a chaplain can take jump packs.  There is no marker next to it like there is for the techmarine etc.  I hope this is incorrect, considering almost all of us have one of those fancy DC chaplains now.

- Sanguinary guard look awesome.  Plain and simple.  This seems to be the only unit of our codex that wasn't simply "converted" for 8th.  It looks like some thought went into this, and I'm actually excited to use them again.

- Still no other flyers or centurions is lame, but I don't honestly care that much about this.

- Overcharged Engines and Black Rage are really lackluster rules.  The absence of Red Thirst is strange.

- Mephiston got some necessary attention.  His sword and movement stat seem to be an attempt to make up for the general lack of psychic powers.

- Sanguinary Guard/Terminator Ancients are a really cool idea. I like the standard bearers being a separate entity.  Their stat line seems a bit silly, but we'll see how it pans out.

- Baal Preds are totally redeemed now, and it seems it won't really matter how you have them fitted.  They'll find their role on the table.  I'm looking forward to combining these with a Raven or two.

 

Needless to say, I'm incredibly disappointed.  I should have heeded the advise of some of you and kept my boyish enthusiasm in check... I hope this isn't a drag for the rest of you like it is me.  I'm curious to see if some other armies get leaked, especially considering 40% of my meta plays Wolves.  I'd like to see how we stack up to them (Wulfen better get the DC treatment).

[durdle-durdle]

Well definitely not a fan. No more Red Thirst is trash. No more fearless DC is trash (yay, our DC run away now! Because if there is anything Sanguinius did it was that!). Only three psychic powers.

No more Death Mask of Sanguinius.

Heavy flamers aren't assault. Storm bolters aren't assault (there went my "terminators got better because they could always advance while firing). Hand flamers became absolute :cuss.

 

And Dante has nothing to show for his 1500 years of service -.-

Who cares if heavy flamers aren't assault? It just means you get -1 to hit with a weapon that auto hits (literally no penalty). Also rapid fire2 storm bolters means they get 2 shots at 24" and 4 at 12". I'll take that all day over being able to run and shoot at -1 bs. I agree with you on hand flamers though.

 

Death company aren't fearless any more because barely anything at all is now. I'm fine with it. Some rules have to be there like that for game balance. Who needs red thirst when you hit first anyways? And the psychic powers we have now aren't all that impressive. The ones we are getting are pretty solid, and I think everyone will be losing the tons of powers in the brb to choose from too.

[Arkangilos]

Assault means they can advance and shoot.

 

So they can run and shoot, which puts them closer to charging range. That's why I care.

 

Also, you know why we got furious charge before? Because of the red thirst. They took that out, which is bull :cuss. (Yes, red thirst was also a formation benefit, but fluffwise was why we got furious charge on our units). I don't know about you, but I like flavors in the armies. We lost a lot of our flavor.

 

And there are plenty of units we've seen that are fearless. D.C. Definitely either need fearless or they need to be much higher in morale. I mean unless you could give two :cusss about lore and want your death Company dying because they get scared.

Edited May 30, 2017 by Arkangilos

[Arkangilos]

I just don't like that the one thing that defines every single Blood Angel is non existent.

[NTaW]

Is it so impossible that the incomplete rules everyone seems to be losing their :cuss over have more to offer? A lot of keywords have rules or abilities attached to them and we only have true explanations of a few of them. We may yet have rules for the Red Thirst, if nothing else there's still an actual individual release down the line that will expand on the initial release of Faction rules.

 

I've noticed a lot of people from every faction being vocal about the nerfs their army has received with the leaked rules. It stands to reason that just maybe GW has tried to rectify the arms race that was 7th by leveling everything off.

[durdle-durdle]

Assault means they can advance and shoot.

 

So they can run and shoot, which puts them closer to charging range. That's why I care.

 

Also, you know why we got furious charge before? Because of the red thirst. They took that out, which is bull :cuss. (Yes, red thirst was also a formation benefit, but fluffwise was why we got furious charge on our units). I don't know about you, but I like flavors in the armies. We lost a lot of our flavor.

 

And there are plenty of units we've seen that are fearless. D.C. Definitely either need fearless or they need to be much higher in morale. I mean unless you could give two :cusss about lore and want your death Company dying because they get scared.

Sounds like a good way of shooting yourself out of charge range.

 

They're probably stripping down "chapter tactics" for nearly every one. I expect that those faction bonuses will affect smaller choices of units.

 

Outside of pox walkers and drones (I think) I can't think of any fearless units off the top of my head. It's for balance, not fluff.

[Arkangilos]

Is it so impossible that the incomplete rules everyone seems to be losing their :cuss over have more to offer? A lot of keywords have rules or abilities attached to them and we only have true explanations of a few of them. We may yet have rules for the Red Thirst, if nothing else there's still an actual individual release down the line that will expand on the initial release of Faction rules.

 

I've noticed a lot of people from every faction being vocal about the nerfs their army has received with the leaked rules. It stands to reason that just maybe GW has tried to rectify the arms race that was 7th by leveling everything off.

We've seen the complete rules for Dante. He has nothing to show for his 1500 years, or his mask that is far more unique than the other death masks. We've seen the rules for the DC who now have the same leadership as regular marines despite being out of their minds and absolutely crazy with NO fear of dying and NO regard for anyone else around them.

[Chaplain Gunzhard]

Kinda bummed I have 4 Librarians with Jumppacks and that is no longer an option... oddly it IS an option for regular Space Marines, so it seems very intentionally excluded from our list.

[kalenein]

I was really excited for this edition until now with the Death Company get the nerf bat this hard. losing fearless is huge along with the loss of a 5+ fnp, and you know what Chaos both SM and Daemons and Necrons will end up with very high leadership just like they do in AOS and "battleshock" will basically be totally ineffective against them.

[Arkangilos]

I think they can get jump packs, I think that the ones that say they can in our list means that they normally can't, but with us they can.

Overall I'm not too bummed about the rules, I just think they removed too much of the flavor.

[Chaplain Gunzhard]

I think they can get jump packs, I think that the ones that say they can in our list means that they normally can't, but with us they can.

Overall I'm not too bummed about the rules, I just think they removed too much of the flavor.

 

I thought that at first as well, until I saw that Librarian with Jumppack (like Librarian on a Bike) are separate entries on the SM list... but I could still be wrong (I hope I am).

[Damon Nightman]

We def still get the jump pack Libby's and chaps

[Chaplain Gunzhard]

Hate to say my Sanguinian foresight was dead on with this edition haha...

 

When they said that Frontline WAACers are helping to create the rules I knew that A) all the fun would stripped out, B.) most of the flavor would be stripped out, C) we'd end up with a soulless mash of numbers, and D) the net-list armies they've been playing for years would remain on top and armies none of those guys have ever touched (like BA) would remain on the bottom.

 

I even like AoS so I was hopeful on that front, but as far as BA is concerned ...I dunno guys.

 

EDIT - yeah maybe we can just include stuff from the SM list [re: libby with jp]?

 

 

Edited May 30, 2017 by Chaplain Gunzhard