8th Edition Rules/Datasheets for BAs leaked

[simison]

After a glance, I am... curious, more or less. In isolation, half of it looks like the BA took a hit, while the other half is the playstyle shift that seems to happen with every new edition as some units get weaker and others get stronger.

 

There's still a proper BA codex in the works, ideally. We're not quite sure how the other factions have weathered the transition. Finally, 8th is a different beast than 7th, so I'm not quite sure what the actual meta is going to look like yet. 

 

Now, none of these prior reasons means that the BA will see better days, but the reverse holds true. 

 

In short, I'm withholding my judgement for now. 

[Calistarius]

We def still get the jump pack Libby's and chaps

What have you seen that I've missed?  Is it just an inclusion on the regular SM datasheet like it is with our Sanguinary Priests?

[Chaplain Gunzhard]

 

We def still get the jump pack Libby's and chaps

What have you seen that I've missed?  Is it just an inclusion on the regular SM datasheet like it is with our Sanguinary Priests?

 

 

I think he is referring to, on the Blood Angels Points Value page... there is a sentence that says, "For Units based on Space Marine Datasheets use the appropriate points values from page 202-203"... which doesn't exactly spell out how they interact or at what cost (Command point wise) but it seems like we can include them.

[Father Mapple]

Wouldn't squads with melta still get the higher of either d6 since they're assault weapons, meaning they can shoot after an advance and movement phase with a deep strike or jump pack assault?

 

I don't think we need to evaluate this codes based on old strategy and habits held over from previous editions. We got to look at this with fresh eyes.

 

Like, there's no role about not assaulting after shooting any weapons, is there? I can only find a rule preventing assault after advancing. So tactical squads are MORE like blood angels of lore.

[Poppaby]

I cant see jump pack Librarian or Jump pack Chaplains as a choice at all. Is that for real?

Unless a jump pack can be taken as standard for those units in Sm armies

This is such a let down. Needless to say none of the issues here are being addressed by the 40k FB page, despite everyone having the rules at this stage.

[NTaW]

 

Is it so impossible that the incomplete rules everyone seems to be losing their over have more to offer? A lot of keywords have rules or abilities attached to them and we only have true explanations of a few of them. We may yet have rules for the Red Thirst, if nothing else there's still an actual individual release down the line that will expand on the initial release of Faction rules.

 

I've noticed a lot of people from every faction being vocal about the nerfs their army has received with the leaked rules. It stands to reason that just maybe GW has tried to rectify the arms race that was 7th by leveling everything off.

We've seen the complete rules for Dante. He has nothing to show for his 1500 years, or his mask that is far more unique than the other death masks. We've seen the rules for the DC who now have the same leadership as regular marines despite being out of their minds and absolutely crazy with NO fear of dying and NO regard for anyone else around them.

 

 

I was going to hit post on a big old response to this but I realize now that being even remotely happy with things isn't what this thread is about so I'm just going to mosey along.

[Damon Nightman]

I cant see jump pack Librarian or Jump pack Chaplains as a choice at all. Is that for real?

 

Unless a jump pack can be taken as standard for those units in Sm armies

 

This is such a let down. Needless to say none of the issues here are being addressed by the 40k FB page, despite everyone having the rules at this stage.

Someone explained it in another thread, but yeah those units can take jump packs for normal SMs unlike apothecaries and techmarines

 

I don't think GW hates us that much

Edited May 30, 2017 by Brother Lemartes

[Arkangilos]

I don't think you can advance after a deep strike, advances are done in the movement phase, Deep Strikes at the end.

[dread05]

It works like so: chaplains and librarians will have the wargear option "this model make take a jump pack..." on their datasheet.

 

Hence the SM points listing costs for 'Librarian with Jump Pack' and 'Chaplain with Jump Pack'.

 

Some units, such as Apothecaries and Company Veterans will not, as regular SM do not get jump packs for these units.

 

BA do, however, and so when being told 'you can use the following datasheets', and addendum must be added giving Apothecaries, Company Veterans etc access to jump packs.

 

Do not equate the named item in the cost list with the datasheet name. It's the same reason we have 'Sanguinary Priest' on a datasheet (with the option to take a jump pack) and both 'Sanguinary Priest' and 'Sanguinary Priest with Jump Pack' on our cost list.

 

(I'm assuming the other datasheets are separated out - bike, terminator armour etc - as they more substantially change the unit's stat line and more heavily alter available wargear)

This guy explains it pretty good I think. And as others are saying, as long as there is a jump pack in the chaplain sprue, they gonna have them.

Edited May 30, 2017 by dread05

[tkni]

"an addendum must be added"

 

I'm genuinely ashamed.

[Calistarius]

 

 

Is it so impossible that the incomplete rules everyone seems to be losing their over have more to offer? A lot of keywords have rules or abilities attached to them and we only have true explanations of a few of them. We may yet have rules for the Red Thirst, if nothing else there's still an actual individual release down the line that will expand on the initial release of Faction rules.

 

I've noticed a lot of people from every faction being vocal about the nerfs their army has received with the leaked rules. It stands to reason that just maybe GW has tried to rectify the arms race that was 7th by leveling everything off.

We've seen the complete rules for Dante. He has nothing to show for his 1500 years, or his mask that is far more unique than the other death masks. We've seen the rules for the DC who now have the same leadership as regular marines despite being out of their minds and absolutely crazy with NO fear of dying and NO regard for anyone else around them.

 

 

I was going to hit post on a big old response to this but I realize now that being even remotely happy with things isn't what this thread is about so I'm just going to mosey along.

 

I respect this, but I don't see anything wrong with having an opinion leaning towards either side.  It is totally okay to be upset or happy with the revelation.  I think that should be expected with any change.  What do you see in these changes that is good?  I'm honestly curious to see if I overlooked anything.  I eager to play these new changes, but I'm not thrilled at the loss of feeling we're something different than red marines. 

[Dont-Be-Haten]

 

 

 

Is it so impossible that the incomplete rules everyone seems to be losing their over have more to offer? A lot of keywords have rules or abilities attached to them and we only have true explanations of a few of them. We may yet have rules for the Red Thirst, if nothing else there's still an actual individual release down the line that will expand on the initial release of Faction rules.

 

I've noticed a lot of people from every faction being vocal about the nerfs their army has received with the leaked rules. It stands to reason that just maybe GW has tried to rectify the arms race that was 7th by leveling everything off.

We've seen the complete rules for Dante. He has nothing to show for his 1500 years, or his mask that is far more unique than the other death masks. We've seen the rules for the DC who now have the same leadership as regular marines despite being out of their minds and absolutely crazy with NO fear of dying and NO regard for anyone else around them.

I was going to hit post on a big old response to this but I realize now that being even remotely happy with things isn't what this thread is about so I'm just going to mosey along.

for me it has to do with small things. Dante not having Bravery 10.

 

the sanguinor just feeling so lack luster.

 

having to give up both weapons to take a thunder hammer on DC.

 

I definitely feel the lack of identity in some regards, which will change once we get an actual battletome. I was sad when we lost the reclusiarch and I'm sad we lost the death company chaplain.

 

I've had some time to adjust and it isnt all doom and gloom, but it definitely feels vanilla right now.

Edited May 30, 2017 by Dont-Be-Haten

[Indefragable]

 

 

I was going to hit post on a big old response to this but I realize now that being even remotely happy with things isn't what this thread is about so I'm just going to mosey along.

 

I respect this, but I don't see anything wrong with having an opinion leaning towards either side. It is totally okay to be upset or happy with the revelation. I think that should be expected with any change. What do you see in these changes that is good? I'm honestly curious to see if I overlooked anything. I eager to play these new changes, but I'm not thrilled at the loss of feeling we're something different than red marines.

Yea definitely share your thoughts, positive, negative or otherwise. This post is like the warp: a writhing living thing full of raw emotion. Things will settle down one way or another, we're all just wrapping our heads around the new state of things without fully having all the details.

 

If Space Wolves only have special units to distinguish themselves, and no Counter-Attack or whatnot, then I would say things might be alright. That's not to drag others into our sadness, but rather it means that all Astartes will be similar with units/Strategems being the special sauce.

 

Positives:

-Libby dreads will do some serious work, especially with meat shields around

-DC Dreads + banners + Lemartes or such will be nassssssty

-Mephy with 4++ shrugging off mortal wounds (save that Command Re-roll!) could be boss

-spammable Sanguinary Ancients?

 

Negatives:

-in general, we lost 75% of our flavor. Perhaps there's an upswell reason why on the horizon (other than New Coke Space Marines which I flat-out refuse to consider until they show regular BA love)

-I really don't think anyone at GW (or Frontline Gaming at that) play BA. Rules for BA seem to consistently display a lack of army wide synergy.

-Dante. :cuss -in' A, man! What happened to him? We will have to see, but it does seem like he has little if anything to make him stand out from "normal" Chapter Masters, let alone mark him as arguably THE most respected and powerful of them all

-...what's worse is that his buffs don't synergies with the Sanguinary Guard ones. RIP Golden Host

-in fact, Dante now seems best suited for buffing fast-moving shooty units. Hop him behind some Baal Preds?

[Chaplain Gunzhard]

Frontline guys played WAAC and net-lists over the last several editions; and this isn't a competitive vs fluff rant - they did use those kinds of lists, whatever your opinion of tournaments/fluff is I don't care... they played "Blood Angels" in so much as the Flesh-Tearers's Drop-pod Taxi Service, which is primarily why I was disheartened to see the tail (the tournament scene) leading the dog and giving GW design feedback. This is all pretty much what I was expecting.

[Silverson]

not sure how helpful it is but there have been some small leaks over on the space wolf forum of there weapons, psychic powers and weapon costs if people want to take some comparisons. its obviously not giving even half the story but thit it could be something to gauge by our own rules

[TheHarrower]

Not sure how I feel about all of this. Until we get a clearer look at all of the other armies, it'll be hard to figure out where we fit in.

 

I'm most disappointed in a lack of Red Thirst. We're supposed to be close combat specialists. Taking that away, just makes us more vanilla. Death Company just keep getting worse every edition. I feel like by the time the next book comes out, they won't even have Feel No Pain anymore. 4 attacks on the charge is still good and Lemartes is almost an auto include now making them fairly beastly. Against Khorne Berzerkers though, they don't stand much of a chance which is just stupid.

 

Not saying any of our characters should be as big of a beef stick as Abaddon, but having someone that could last a round or 2 against him in melee would be nice. Dante seems way overcosted for what he does now. So much for THE Chapter Master. Corbulo got kinda of de-fluffed as well. Was hoping Farseeing Eye would grant an extra CP or two and that Heaven's Teeth would still rend or do something. Jury is still out on Flamestorm Cannons. The GW folks said they think that's the defacto weapon on a Land Raider which it very well might be, but on a Baal Pred? Seems like a waste. You'll get one shot off before you get locked into close combat. If only overcharged engines let you break from combat and still fire...

 

All is not doom and gloom though. Sanguinary Guard led by an Ancient are definitely going to bust some heads. Death Company Dread in a Pod or in a Storm Raven near another DC unit with Lemartes is going to be terrifying. I really like the new Sanguinary Priest as well. Too bad they didn't give him Terminator armour back. I have an awesome conversion I just can't use. :( Libby Dread hidden among other units is going to be really good too. We'll see how it all pans out. I'm seeing better close combat, but not the fluffy murder your foes up close, Blood Angel's combat record is second-to-none, stuff with see in the fluff. I think the days of mass Pods are gone too.

 

Again, reserving judgement until I see everything, but right now I can't help but feel that Blood Angels are the red armoured step children of 40K.

[Damon Nightman]

Besides werewolves or people riding werewolves or chaos shenanigans, DC might be as good as it gets for "regular" marine CC units... besides termies and SG I guess...

[TheHarrower]

Besides werewolves or people riding werewolves or chaos shenanigans, DC might be as good as it gets for "regular" marine CC units... besides termies and SG I guess...

 

Seems that way, but Death Company are NOT regular marines! If only someone could convince the design studio up in their ivory tower of this. I know people hate him, but at least Matt Ward understood that and got it right.

Edited May 30, 2017 by TheHarrower

[NTaW]

 

 

 

Is it so impossible that the incomplete rules everyone seems to be losing their over have more to offer? A lot of keywords have rules or abilities attached to them and we only have true explanations of a few of them. We may yet have rules for the Red Thirst, if nothing else there's still an actual individual release down the line that will expand on the initial release of Faction rules.

 

I've noticed a lot of people from every faction being vocal about the nerfs their army has received with the leaked rules. It stands to reason that just maybe GW has tried to rectify the arms race that was 7th by leveling everything off.

We've seen the complete rules for Dante. He has nothing to show for his 1500 years, or his mask that is far more unique than the other death masks. We've seen the rules for the DC who now have the same leadership as regular marines despite being out of their minds and absolutely crazy with NO fear of dying and NO regard for anyone else around them.

 

 

I was going to hit post on a big old response to this but I realize now that being even remotely happy with things isn't what this thread is about so I'm just going to mosey along.

 

I respect this, but I don't see anything wrong with having an opinion leaning towards either side.  It is totally okay to be upset or happy with the revelation.  I think that should be expected with any change.  What do you see in these changes that is good?  I'm honestly curious to see if I overlooked anything.  I eager to play these new changes, but I'm not thrilled at the loss of feeling we're something different than red marines. 

 

 

I'm not saying anyone's wrong for being upset, I merely acknowledged that there's some (hopefully) cathartic venting going on here and I don't want to be a part of it (more so when there's all sorts of NO this and NO that in the first response to my comment).

 

What do I see that is good? My answer is that I didn't see anything to be upset by to begin with.

[Chaplain Gunzhard]

Here is how I see it ...we started with a weaker codex. This edition is built with "community" feedback from folks that never had the slightest interest in our weaker codex because it's not a power-gaming codex - we are currently moving onto an even weaker codex, without question; however that view [of weakness] can only be seen through a 7th-edition-Lense at this point which may be wholly inaccurate.

 

It is entirely possible that other armies will be 'leveled' and 'balanced' to the same degree, though so far it doesn't seem that way. It is also entirely possible that changes to core game mechanics, particularly in the assault phase will make all the difference for us, and this is yet harder to completely conceptualize.

 

If we do lose some flavor/soul for the sake of a more simple and streamlined, balanced, game then I'm ok with that - but if it's not across the board then I'll be really disappointed.

 

Keep in mind there is literally no historical basis for us to believe that the game and/or the Blood Angels will actually be balanced finally; and the Just Take Primarus Marines! "solution" is exactly the sort of thing GW has done repeatedly in the past.

 

 

Edited May 30, 2017 by Chaplain Gunzhard

[Phiasco]

Everything isn't great, but I do see some bright spots. Bitz and pieces of almost everything we learned about. Our special characters, for example. While not overall op, there is something for each one of them that made me smile or go "dang!". Then there's our Librarian Dreadnought. The dreadnought force weapon doing '3' damage is pretty decent. Then there's the dreadnought blood talons. Perhaps 2+D3 damage would have been better, but D6 still makes me happy. The Sanguinor finally got a distinct Encarmine Sword. It's not the greatest in the world, but at least he got it. I've always liked Mephiston. To the point where even when he wasn't so great I'd still try and get him in my lists. His new rules are absolutely alright with me. What psyker powers we actually have access to could dampen my enthusiasm. On the other hand, they could make me even more excited.

Edited May 30, 2017 by Phiasco

[Sans Mercy]

http://i.imgur.com/MsxsV29.gif

Well ladies, I'm friggin digging it. Looking forward to buying all your stuff on Ebay.

 

[Blindhamster]

Who said they were selling their stuff?

[Charlo]

I just don't like that the one thing that defines every single Blood Angel is non existent.

All chapter tactics and equivalents are gone until the codexes. They'll come back soon broski.

[Grazcruzk]

It doesn't seem too bad so far. I admit that it seems really flattened out right now and a few of the characters are a little eh. I think Dante should have The Sanguinor's avenging angel rule as a bubble.. I like the direction they went with standard bearers and chalices. Going from s4 to s5, or even 6 for Mephy is really nice. I also really like Corbulo. The red grail is amazing. With initiative as a stat being gone I think the chance at an extra attack isn't half bad. The eye only works for his own rolls, but you get one every turn! Bringing models back to the fight all day long. Besides, you've got command points for your other rerolls.

 

Looking at the regular priest entry it says you have the option to replace his bolt pistol with an item from the melee weapons list. Unless I've missed it we haven't seen the actual list, right? Just the entries for the stats and and the point costs in the index? Two chainswords might be a thing. The entry for DC has a specific list of what can replace what and it doesn't allow for the combination. Anyways that is a bit of wishful thinking, I know, but combined with the other buff bubbles like the grail or the sanguinor's aura.... Ooooh! Caaaan do!