==][==Grey Knights 8e Full Rules==][==

[Valerian]

http://imgur.com/a/KP4AI

[Valerian]

Winners:

 

• Storm Bolters - Rapid Fire 2 is far superior to 7e 'Salvo'.  At 2 points each, I'd say they are a great deal.
• Nemesis weapons - Nice range of Strength and AP variety, and most stuff is balanced.  All cost '0' points, except 13 point Damonhammer, so prices already factored in.  Warding Stave has nice benefit of an Invulnerable save in Fight phase, or improvement to Invulnerable for TDA; not much of a 'tank' but worth putting one in each squad to try and tank a couple wounds with AP-2 or higher.
• Psychic Powers - all three powers in the Sanctic Discipline look great, and all of our units get to pick one or more of them to use, in addition to a slightly nerfed version of Smite.  
• Brotherhood Champion - is much better than before;  WS 2+ and BS 2+, 4 Attacks and 4 Wounds, and can pick a 'Perfect Warrior' stance that will work well regardless of the close combat. Also gets to fight (or fight again!) if killed in a Fight phase.
• Grand Master Voldus - knows all 3 Sanctic powers plus Smite, has a relic Daemonhammer that automatically doesn't cause him to hit at -1.  He's probably worth the 30 points extra over a generic Grand Master.
• Paladins - now have 3 Attacks and 3 Wounds.  Otherwise basically the same.  Still get to double-up on ranged special weapons.  Now also have a 'Paragon' squad leader, who is even better than the others with a 2+ WS and LD 9.
• Apothecary - now a separate Character; WS 2+, 4 Attacks and 5 Wounds.  New Narthecium rules like all others', can attempt to heal or revive anyone, so doesn't just help out the Paladins.
• Paladin Ancient - also now a separate Character; WS 2+, 4 Attacks and 5 Wounds, like the Apothecary.  Can now take a Nemesis Falchion in his off-hand, so he has a decent special close combat attack.  Sacred Banner offers 2 nice benefits to Grey Knights within 6"  (+1 Ld, and extra Attack in the Fight phase).  Can also trade his storm bolter for a special ranged weapon - nice!
• Brother-Captain - one more Attack than before and of course 6 Wounds now, in line with the same increase across the board for Characters.  Psychic Locus rule allows doubling of Smite power range for units within 6" (bringing most units up to a 24" range, from our reduced 12", due to Rites of Banishment).
• Interceptors - still get their Teleport Shunt once per game (place them exactly like other Reserves that teleport, (i.e. more than 9" from enemy models).  Based on the new rules for scoring objectives, At only 4 points more per model than Strikes, I'm not really seeing any reason not to use all Power Armored Grey Knights as Interceptors.
• Dreadknights - aside from the nerf to their Teleporter (see below), they've tripled in Wounds (now 12!), and gained an Attack.  They also have been given keyword 'Vehicle', but I'm not yet sure how it'll impact them in the game.
• Terminator Squads - Get the improvement to 2 Wounds, as we've seen with other Terminators, and now get a Justicar with 3 Attacks.  Otherwise, the same as we had before, pretty much.  
• Purgation Squads - No real changes to the squad itself, really, but the ability to move and fire Heavy weapons at a -1 To-hit in the core rules, means these guys can make decent use of Psycannons and Psilencers, while staying mobile.  Might be worth investing in a squad or two of these, and moving the Psycannon/Psilencer models that you might have had in Strike, Purifier, or Interceptor squads over to Purgation squads, freeing up those others to focus on close combat.
• Dreadnoughts and Venerable Dreadnoughts know the nerfed version of Smite, just like all of the other units.

 

 

Losers:

 

• No Aegis, or any other rule that would help offset the nasty Perils of the Warp of 8e
• Purifiers just have 1 base Attack now, so they're more like regular Marines, vice veterans.  Only Mastery Level 1 now, too.
• Now, the only thing that differentiates Purifiers from Strikes is the better version of Smite (but with an extremely short 3" range), and the ability to double-up on the ranged special weapons.  Not sure I'd even bother with Purifiers in 8e, especially since they are 7 points each more expensive.
• Dreadknight Teleporter - only allows the Dreadknight to teleport into battle now.  No more shunt, and no more 12" Movement (it does have a decent 8" starting movement, though).
• Psycannon is a mixed bag.  It went from Salvo to Heavy, which is good, but lost 'Rending' and didn't go up to 6 shots as the Assault Cannon did.  4 shots at Strength 7, AP-1, D1 is good, but not great, and Grey Knight could use a trustier support weapon within the squads.

Edited May 31, 2017 by Valerian

[LuisMars]

Dreadnoghts have smite.
Dreadknights can have a teleporter for 10 points. There's only a difference of 5 points between two dreadfists and one fist and hammer.

Edited May 31, 2017 by LuisMars

[Waking Dreamer]

Im not sure what's the better melee weapon for our Dreadknights anymore:

 

1. Greatsword = S10 A4 D:1-6

2. 2 Dreadfists = S12 A5 D:1-3

3. Daemon Greathammer = S12 A4 D:3-6 (-1 To Hit)

 

Also, it looks like the Paladin Ancient while no longer in a unit, can replace his stormbolter with a special weapon OR keep his Stormbolter but have a SINGLE Nemesis Falchion in his off-hand?

 

The Paladin Paragon has WS2+ so if you give him a daemon hammer (-1 To Hit), he'll still be hitting at 3+ like everyone else.

[Valerian]

Im not sure what's the better melee weapon for our Dreadknights anymore:

 

1. Greatsword = S10 A4 D:1-6

2. 2 Dreadfists = S12 A5 D:1-3

3. Daemon Greathammer = S12 A4 D:3-6 (-1 To Hit)

What I think is great about this is that they're all good choices. Just go with whatever you've got modeled, and you'll be set. No reason to fret over it, since all are terrific. Same goes with the regular Nemesis weapons for our infantry for that matter.

 

Also, it looks like the Paladin Ancient while no longer in a unit, can replace his stormbolter with a special weapon OR keep his Stormbolter but have a SINGLE Nemesis Falchion in his off-hand?

Exactly right, which is nice since he had to fight with his fists before. He's much cooler now.

 

The Paladin Paragon has WS2+ so if you give him a daemon hammer (-1 To Hit), he'll still be hitting at 3+ like everyone else.

Good thing that's how he's already modeled for me

 

 

I've finished my initial thoughts in an edited post #2, above.

[Dread]

No vehicle stuff tho. Other then that because of this my GK will be my first army to play 8th. I sure hope it's as good as all the hype is making it out to be, the new edition that is.

[Valerian]

All of the vehicles are the generic vehicles that you'll get from the base Space Marine pages.  Whoever took these pics didn't bother with those.  We'll find out what Rhinos and Razorbacks are like soon enough.  We already have the details on their weapons and prices, just don't know any special rules.  We also already know Land Raider from the Chaos version leak.  Really just waiting on Stormraven at this point.

[Soder]

Huh.. purifiers aren't "ML2" anymore either. Can only manifest/deny 1 psychic power per turn

[Valerian]

So, out of my collection, it looks like this is what I've got to play with at start:

 

 

Headuarters

 

• Grand Master Voldus - 190
• Librarian in TDA with storm bolter and Nemesis warding stave - 161

 

Elites

• Paladin Ancient with storm bolter and Nemesis falchion - 142  (or Brotherhood Ancient for 130)
• Apothecary with Nemesis halberd - 92

 

Troops

 

• Terminator Squad  1 with storm bolters, various Nemesis weapons, 1 Daemonhammer, and 1 Psycannon  - 261
• Terminator Squad  2 with storm bolters, various Nemesis weapons, 1 Daemonhammer, and 1 Psycannon  - 261

 

Fast Attack 

 

• Interceptor Squad 1 with storm bolters, various Nemesis weapons, 1 Deamonhammer - 138
• Interceptor Squad 1 with storm bolters, various Nemesis weapons, 1 Deamonhammer - 138

 

Heavy Support

• Purgation Squad with storm bolter and Nemesis force halberd, 4 Psycannons - 153
• Nemesis Dreadknight 1 with Nemesis greathammer, Heavy Psycannon, Heavy Incinerator, and Dreadknight Teleporter - 225
• Nemesis Dreadknight 2 with Nemesis greatsword, Heavy Incinerator, and Dreadknight Teleporter - 190

 

Dedicated Transports

 

• Razorback 1 with Twin heavy bolters - 82
• Razorback 2 with Twin heavy bolters - 82
• Rhino with Storm bolter - 72

 

Grand Total of 2187 points before I start figuring out what to drop, what to add, what to change, etc.

[Gaz1858]

I do still think there is a use for Purifiers with their special smite. Put em in a transport. Add a brother captain and youve now got a 6" power causing D6 mortal wounds. 1 bc 2 purifier squads and 2 transports is 2d6 mortal wounds

[Soder]

Ya I never thought of that with bro captain. Guaranteed GoI on units will pbly be decent for them as well.

If a unit knows GoI they can cast it on themselves right? ..self teleporting units

*Back to reading over everything again!

[Slips]

So, out of my collection, it looks like this is what I've got to play with at start:

 

*snip*

Grand Total of 2187 points before I start figuring out what to drop, what to add, what to change, etc.

Looking at their Datasheets, since it says "[...] a Storm Bolter[...]" it means, to me at least, that you HAVE to buy a Storm Bolter for everyone in your squads who isnt getting a special weapon.

 

So you can't purchase less than 4 in a 5 man squad for example.

Edited May 31, 2017 by Slipstreams

[Inquisitor Fox]

Honestly there doesn't seem to be any MAJOR changes... just more a collection of little tweaks here and there.  If one had been list building for a sheer competitive standard there might be some issues, but for a collector/faction loyalist/story or fluff focused builder... really it seems pretty normal.  It actually makes things a little easier for me in giving me access to a Brotherhood banner bearer and Apothecary without having to take "1st company" Paladins.  It makes more sense to be honest, and lets me focus on a single demi-brotherhood force who are from time to time working with the Inquisition.

 

I don't see a lot of point in a Strike Squad over Interceptors but then, I never did.  To me it was always about Terminators, Interceptors and Dreadknights.

[Captain Coolpants]

Really not impressed that there is no perils mitigation, and the 1 power per turn thing is a huge debuff., means we'll only be casting 3 decent powers a whole turn, then sprinkling in the smite a whole bunch, and hope we don't kill half a squad

 

then The fact we have to pay for storm bolters is annoying also lol.

 

And from what I've seen, terminators now being 46pts each with bolters, and paladins still being 55 with bolters for an extra wound. I'd say it's more efficient to use paladins.

With the proliferation of weapons doing D3 damage now, that's still an average of 1 dead terminator per wound. Whereas it would reduce a paladin to 1 and live. Also means we get better use from apothecaries since they auto regenerate wounds.

 

Also all basic force weapons are free, I can't see points for falchions? I'd much rather have +1 attack than an extra ap or strength. Especially since everything can hurt everything now.

 

So for me, brother captains, paladins and apothecaries are now auto includes.

 

 

And the dreadknight, I'm not sure on the teleporter. It's absolutely worth it for 10pts,but am I residing it right? It says we can deepstrike, but at the end of each movement phase we can redeploy? Much the the interceptors, but every turn not once per battle?

 

 

 

Edit: can we use powers in combat do we know? Because if we can, then purifiers are actually pretty good doing d6 unsavable wounds.

Edited May 31, 2017 by Captain Coolpants

[Gentlemanloser]

Initial thoughts.

 

Strikes are garbage. Never use again.

 

Pallies are better than termies.

 

The matched rule of only 1 cast of same power per turn, bar smite, really hurts us.

 

I hope smite spam will be good enough.

[Bartali]

And the dreadknight, I'm not sure on the teleporter. It's absolutely worth it for 10pts,but am I residing it right? It says we can deepstrike, but at the end of each movement phase we can redeploy? Much the the interceptors, but every turn not once per battle?

 

No. Just means you teleport/deploy from reserves at the end of the movement phase. There's nothing to allow you to return to reserves to re-deploy next turn

 

Some random thoughts :-

 

Like the BA leak, it's very bare bones and reminds me of a White Dwarf codex. As long as all the other are similar, that's fine for now. Worried about power creep as soon as factions start getting their 'codexes' though, especially if GW spread them out over a number of years.

 

Disappointed with the GK weapons. Psycannons don't have the rate of fire of AssCans, and the changes to the Psilencer (while no surprise) are a nerf.

 

No more NDK shunt and reduced movement is a nerf.... but it can take GoI along with every other GK unit. I need to re-read the psychic phase again to see how powerful each GK unit having (nerfed) Smite and GoI is.

 

Still no Drop Pod for Dreads (sigh). But I think Dreads are back on the table again. Twin Las is nice for GK, and GoI (again) solves their movement problems

[Gentlemanloser]

Can a BC act as a locus to his own smite?

 

How easily we have been rolled into the nilla sm dex.

 

But not given access to all the toys...

 

Bart matched play has a rule that you can only manifest a power once per turn. Apart from smite.

 

So only 1 goi or hammerhand a turn.

 

We needed a rule to bypass that.

Edited May 31, 2017 by Gentlemanloser

[Gentlemanloser]

Voldus is exactly the same as a gkgm, but has a super hammer and no options?

Kind of a joke for our triumvirate...

 

And there goes internal balance and the much vaunted all units will be wanted.

 

Oh well, I guess we just have to hold to the hope that this is nothing more than a stop gap, and wait patiently for our own individual Codex.

Edited May 31, 2017 by Gentlemanloser

[Gentlemanloser]

Crowe is junk.

 

Loads of attacks, yeah.  But it looks like whoever 'balanced' him just looked at his weapon and forgot he had Rending naturally.

 

No Rending, on a S / AP0 Melee weapon.

 

Sure he rerolls failed hits/wounds and can get up to 5 extra attacks.  If he successfully wounds.

 

He doesn't even get the Champions Stances...

 

He Doesn't get the Champions Stances...

 

/sigh

 

At least you can stack your one Hammerhand with a Champion to give him +2 to wounds rolls.

[Gentlemanloser]

Does Stern double the range of his own Zone of Banishment Smite?

 

Do either Stern or a BC double the range of Purifiers Cleansing Flame Smite?

 

If you have both within 6", do the Locus's stack?  Does the range triple?  Quadruple?

[Waking Dreamer]

Might have my missed it, but are there no longer Relics for GKs to take? No more Soulblade or Libre Daemonica? Or will those come later?

[Holier Than Thou]

Thoughts.

 

Rule of One really punishes us.

 

Dreadknight has had a big nerf as far as his movement goes, glad it got an extended range for the Incinerator. Means it can use it after Deep Striking 9" away. My standard loadout has increased by 20 points but not sure if it has improved.

 

Glad standard Nemesis Weapons are free otherwise it would have got real expensive, real fast.

 

Psycannon & Incinerator are a bit too expensive for Power Armour wearers considering they are giving up a free Force Weapon.

 

Psyk Out Grenades, will anyone ever use these?

 

Interceptors with Incinerators got gibbed a bit.

 

Purifiers took a huge hit, I never used them before but I don't think I ever will now.

 

Terminators look expensive at first but considering we don't pay for our Nemesis Weapons (apart from the Hammer) they are actually cheaper than other Chapter's Teminators.

 

No Perils mitigation? Disappointing.

 

Stormbolters are great.

 

Oh, and Nemesis Hammers are no different to Thunder Hammers??? And still only 1 Storm Shield in the whole Chapter???

Edited May 31, 2017 by Holier Than Thou

[Bartali]

We still don't know what keyword 'Terminator' does yet do we ? Didn't GW mention at one point that Terminators are more survivable in addition to the extra wound ?

 

Also, Interceptors don't get the 'Jump Pack' keyword. Still don't know what that one does either ?

Edited May 31, 2017 by Bartali

[Sothalor]

What are people's initial thoughts on the Dreadknight/Dreadnought balance of desirability come 8th?

 

Seems (to me) that Dreadknights are no longer necessarily no-brainer auto-takes over Dreadnoughts.

[Holier Than Thou]

Something else I asked in a thread that got locked without anyone answering, Flamer weapons no longer ignore cover? They auto-hit but cover is now a bonus to armour saving throws. The Guard's Eradicator Nova Cannon specifically has a rule that states targets don't get a bonus from cover, flamers don't seem to have this rule.