==][==Grey Knights 8e Full Rules==][==

[Gentlemanloser]

The datasheets say we come with Storm Bolters, so we need to pay for those.

 

Basically, Strikes are 21 ppm, not 19.

 

Which make us no cheaper than our 7th edition version with the 10 point Justicar tax.

 

And still 10 points more expensive than our 5th edition version.

Edited May 31, 2017 by Gentlemanloser

[Valerian]

Yeah, as GML says, you've got to pay for the stuff that your data sheet says you have; can't choose not to take something.

[Captain Coolpants]

Just seems super weird. Why make us add in basic weapons if we have to take them anyway as part of the model/data slate. To compensate, all they had to do was make the upgrade guns -2pts less each so we compensate the storm bolter cost...

 

 

And how we all feeling about the new -1 to hit on flyers?

 

And I'm correct in assuming we no longer roll to hit with powers either, including flyers?

[Holier Than Thou]

Land Raider Crusader plus Gate of Infinity? That's a lot of firepower on turn 1 then turn 2 your Grand Master, Librarian and 2 units of Terminators can disembark, move, shoot and assault.

[Zunich]

The Complete Book:

1. rulebook,
   
2. Imperium 1, 
   
3. Imperium 2,
   
4. xenos 1,
   
5. xenos 2,
   
6. chaos
   

http://fex.net/785487389255

[Phiasco]

 

 

Something else I asked in a thread that got locked without anyone answering, Flamer weapons no longer ignore cover? They auto-hit but cover is now a bonus to armour saving throws. The Guard's Eradicator Nova Cannon specifically has a rule that states targets don't get a bonus from cover, flamers don't seem to have this rule.

 

Yes, Flamers no longer ignore Cover.

That's disappointing but thanks for clarifying.

 

 

Well, flamer weapons all automatically hit, so they absolutely ignore cover. Cover just adds to the difficulty of hitting, right? So automatically hitting ignores cover. 

[Captain Coolpants]

Cover simply gives you +1 save this edition.

Land Raider Crusader plus Gate of Infinity? That's a lot of firepower on turn 1 then turn 2 your Grand Master, Librarian and 2 units of Terminators can disembark, move, shoot and assault.

amusing idea indeed!

[Valerian]

Just seems super weird. Why make us add in basic weapons if we have to take them anyway as part of the model/data slate. To compensate, all they had to do was make the upgrade guns -2pts less each so we compensate the storm bolter cost...

 

They're keeping all weapons and war gear costs (besides for named special characters) outside of all unit costs so that they can be dynamically updated without having to also update all of the units in all of the indexes if they decide that a storm bolter should really be worth four points next year, instead of just two (as an example). Much easier to update a single page of weapons prices, than to try and figure out all of the things in the game that might have that thing in its basic kit.

[Gentlemanloser]

Cover gives you a +1 to your Save.

 

Nothing to do with the to hit roll. Sadly.

Holy hell!  Gating a LRR! LoL! Now that's amazing!

[newdigitalGK]

My notes

Going off of the subscripts

Dreadnaughts do not cost extra for getting psych powers and can gate same with any of the "basic units" except for landeraders razorbacks rhinos and storm ravens

Librarian doesn't get rites of banashment nerf

Librarian seems redundant to bring when everything can cast the same powers as him... 

If you GoI a unit you could leave you IC's in the dust as they don't join units anymore

If you take Voldus and cast all 3 psychic powers no one else can (minus smite)

Anyone withing 6" of paladin ancient and with falcions suddenly get 2 extra attacks could be huge especially if you are -1 WS due to hammer etc

Nem warding Staff is a huge buff +2 str increased Invul save and gets an AP value?

Draigo does a flat 3 damage per hit.. assuming he hits every time that's 15 wounds more if he gets hammerhand (20)

no word on "formations" that might improve our teleportation or our psychic abilities

Could go dreadnaught heavy and teleport them arround 

Psycannons IMO seem weaker and more costly for just 1 str and less shots then the assault cannon

[Valerian]

My notes

Going off of the subscripts

Dreadnaughts do not cost extra for getting psych powers and can gate same with any of the "basic units" except for landeraders razorbacks rhinos and storm ravens

Librarian doesn't get rites of banashment nerf

Librarian seems redundant to bring when everything can cast the same powers as him... 

If you GoI a unit you could leave you IC's in the dust as they don't join units anymore

If you take Voldus and cast all 3 psychic powers no one else can (minus smite)

Anyone withing 6" of paladin ancient and with falcions suddenly get 2 extra attacks could be huge especially if you are -1 WS due to hammer etc

Nem warding Staff is a huge buff +2 str increased Invul save and gets an AP value?

Draigo does a flat 3 damage per hit.. assuming he hits every time that's 15 wounds more if he gets hammerhand (20)

no word on "formations" that might improve our teleportation or our psychic abilities

Could go dreadnaught heavy and teleport them arround 

Psycannons IMO seem weaker and more costly for just 1 str and less shots then the assault cannon

 

Definitely don't think the Librarian is worth it anymore.  They don't have the option to upgrade to ML3 now, and, as you said, are redundant with all of your other units.  

 

There won't be Formations that improve Teleportation of Psychic Abilities - Formations are long gone for 8e, and Detachments won't give any special benefits beyond their certain amount of designated Command Points.  It is possible that in the actual Codex we eventually get we'll have faction-specific Grey Knights stratagems to spend Command Points on that will somehow help, but that's a long shot, and not something to be concerned with right now.

[Captain Coolpants]

Since we now have pretty much all the rules, I'd like to hear from you guys if you do any play tests to see how we shape up. Because honestly, I'm feeling pretty bummed about our forces right now. But maybe after playing a few games we'll see it's not all bad? (hopefully)

 

I'd obviously like to do this myself, but my only gaming buddies are left too sour after 6/7th and won't play 40k again :-/

Edited May 31, 2017 by Captain Coolpants

[Commander Dawnstar]

So am I right in thinking that Falchions are the best non-Hammer Nemesis Force Weapon? That extra attack seems to compensate for the loss of save modifier quite nicely, and as far as I can see they seem to be on par with or better than any of the other weapons in pretty much any circumstance short of a Toughness 8 target.

Edited June 1, 2017 by Brightstar

[Valerian]

So am I right in thinking that Falchions are the best non-Hammer Nemesis Force Weapon? That extra attack seems to compensate for the loss of save modifier quite nicely, and as far as I can see they seem to be on par with or better than any of the other weapons in pretty much any circumstance short of a Toughness 8 target.

 

Well those and the Warding Staves to get a nice defensive buff with the Invulnerable save for PA / improvement for TDA.  

[Dread]

The only rules I haven't seen yet are for stromravens, land Raiders and rhino chassis vehicles. That's when I will be able to see what's what.

[Captain Coolpants]

The only rules I haven't seen yet are for stromravens, land Raiders and rhino chassis vehicles. That's when I will be able to see what's what.

All the rules are here. Think all our non FW vehicles are in imperial 1?

 

https://drive.google.com/drive/mobile/folders/0B4IGo22sDo4zdEtrRmEyelg2TkU

[Gentlemanloser]

I love interceptors. I really do!

 

High movement troops with a decent basic shooting attack and decent melee to boot.

 

Retaining the once per game tactical shunt is brilliant too.

 

I think my GK will be based around Interceptors, with long range Dreads and bare fist NDK.

 

Interceptors can have a decisive presence in every phase. High movement, mortal wound psychic, mass of SB shots and 'force' weapons in CC.

[Beacham]

I love interceptors. I really do!

 

High movement troops with a decent basic shooting attack and decent melee to boot.

 

Retaining the once per game tactical shunt is brilliant too.

 

I think my GK will be based around Interceptors, with long range Dreads and bare fist NDK.

 

Interceptors can have a decisive presence in every phase. High movement, mortal wound psychic, mass of SB shots and 'force' weapons in CC.

I like that they ignore units and terrain when they move as well. Most of the time you'll be able to move them in straight lines. I'll be making heavy use of interceptors, I think.

[Adeptus]

Things I like so far: Dreadknights aren't the only thing keeping our army competitive. Our basic troops rock pretty hard in melee. No more deepstrike scatter! Oh god, how many times that screwed me, lol! All the Nemesis weapon options seem good. Paladins are good again! Banners are useful again!

 

Things I don't like: Psycannon has gone from an awesome weapon of mass destruction to just kinda meh. The Matched Play psychic rules really screw us and hurt our army builds. As others have noted, why ever bother with a Librarian when you can only attempt to manifest each power once?

[Waking Dreamer]

I love interceptors. I really do!

High movement troops with a decent basic shooting attack and decent melee to boot.

Retaining the once per game tactical shunt is brilliant too.

I think my GK will be based around Interceptors, with long range Dreads and bare fist NDK.

Interceptors can have a decisive presence in every phase. High movement, mortal wound psychic, mass of SB shots and 'force' weapons in CC.

So what are the stats and rules for the Interceptors? I'm on my phone and can't access the profiles.

[Gentlemanloser]

Same profile as all the other GK PA units.

 

But they have 12" move, can move though other models (you can't move thorugh friendly models now) and terrain and get a once per game shunt.  Basically the staple Deep Strike everyone gets.

 

Can pick them and at end of Movement Phase place them anywhere 9" away from enemies.

 

It's easier with these guys to get into 12" range for 4 Bolter shots a Knight.  And all the PA dudes get all (bar hammer) Nemesis Wepaons for free.  So go nuts with Staves, Falchions etc.

 

Out of our 4 rather identical PA units, Interceptors stand out.

 

Purifies are nerfed (1A), and their smite is very short ranged, for a buff from 1 mortal wound to d6.  Strikes are garbage, interceptors are only 3 (IIRC) points more expensive.  And with our guns nerfed there's little reason to consider Purgation squads over Space Marine Dreads which occupy the same lot and have far better shooting options.

 

Internal balance with our 'codex' is shot to hell.  Especially with GWs claims of balance, playtesting and wanting every unit to be wanted.

[SanovichKai]

I feel everyone is missing something rather unfortunate...

Our terminators have LD 7 -> leader has LD 8. This stuns me. ALL other terminators have LD 8 -> leader LD 9, and deathwing + DW termies have a fearless. What the hell happened? I still enjoy GKs as an elite, high point army, but small things like this can stack up hard against us.
My only "gameplay" reason for this vs. lore is that GK terminators are a troop choice. Maybe this impacts detachments heavily?

 

The psychic organization is brutal too. I don't mind D3 sanctic, but why is everything generalized as smite? For flavour, I'd have loved for something a bit more standout for a psychic imbued faction as a baseline (same goes for other factions imo). The matched play limitation is a major kick too. At least in 7th you could build WCs with your unused units... Again, as people have said it seems psy is considered for 1-3 models in an army. 

I look at Thousand Sons and scratch my head too.

 

Least Voldus is more appealing! Found him lackluster in 7th for the price next to Draigo. 

I am squashed by the purifier nerf too - I'm in the middle of painting 10 (was planning on using them as strike marines as a switch in games too, but they're looking off as well). I have the paints, still gonna keep at it! 

 

Although on a positive note. I feel most armies have a lot of strange changes and its possible this will lead to a balance? Maybe the cons won't be bad when everyone has their own. We won't know until we play. 

Edited June 1, 2017 by SanovichKai

[Adeptus]

I feel everyone is missing something rather unfortunate...

 

Our terminators have LD 7 -> leader has LD 8. This stuns me. ALL other terminators have LD 8 -> leader LD 9, and deathwing + DW termies have a fearless. What the hell happened? I still enjoy GKs as an elite, high point army, but small things like this can stack up hard against us.

My only "gameplay" reason for this vs. lore is that GK terminators are a troop choice. Maybe this impacts detachments heavily?

Woah, did NOT see that! That's some BS right there...

[Holier Than Thou]

 

I feel everyone is missing something rather unfortunate...Our terminators have LD 7 -> leader has LD 8. This stuns me. ALL other terminators have LD 8 -> leader LD 9, and deathwing + DW termies have a fearless. What the hell happened? I still enjoy GKs as an elite, high point army, but small things like this can stack up hard against us.My only "gameplay" reason for this vs. lore is that GK terminators are a troop choice. Maybe this impacts detachments heavily?

Woah, did NOT see that! That's some BS right there...

Why would our units have high leadership? They only sit around all day facing the worst horrors of the warp without batting an eyelid and being the only force to have the willpower and purity of spirit to have never fallen to Chaos. Another kick in the Lore's balls.

[Gentlemanloser]

Nope, no impact on Detachments or Scoring from being Troops.

 

Just another massive nerf our Army has taken in this playtesting Balance.

 

And another reason to not use our GKT or Paladin and to use Custodians instead.

 

Faction Imperium Keyword...

 

Edit: The point lower Ld will impact all our 'battleshock' rolls, so is quite a large deal.

 

Especially over Dangel/Deathwatch 'Fearless' Terminators...

Edited June 1, 2017 by Gentlemanloser