==][==Grey Knights 8e Full Rules==][==

[Bartali]

 Our basic troops rock pretty hard in melee. 

 

About that. Foot slogging they're slow and any decent assault units with speed will be charging them and going first.

 

In 6th/7th you could get away with Terminators taking a charge from Thunderwolf Cav or similar - you'll wipe just as many with our force weapons going at the same time. In 8th you can't do that and you'll need to plan around it - not sure of the best way of mitigating that, Land Raiders are incredibly expensive now. You could probably get away with teleporting a unit of Paladins in and using a command point to re-roll the assault distance if (probably) needed.

 

On the flip side, Interceptors benefit hugely from the assaulting unit going first - they're probably the unit that's come out best from the re-jig. 

 

Is combat squads for Interceptors still a thing (don't have the rules handy). If so can see me taking the HS (Spearhead ?!) detachment. 2x10 (for 4x5 Interceptors), mix of Dreads and Dreadknights in HS. Shame there isn't a HQ with a Personal Teleporter.....

 

Edit - GK HQs now feel like a tax to take one. They get left behind by a gating unit, there still isn't one with a PT, and GK Librarians are useless. Heck, even the banner bearers/ancients get left behind with Gate now

Edited June 1, 2017 by Bartali

[Gentlemanloser]

Yeah combat Squads still in.

 

I'm struggling to decide whether more W1 guys on the table it better then more point effiecent W2 and W3 guys will be.

 

There's seems to be too much D2+ weapons (Especially in CC, where we're supposed to shine), which won't spill over W1 guys to make the W2/W3 dudes attractive.

[Valerian]

The low Ld Terminators are something probably worth complaining to GW about, when they open up the feedback mechanism.

[Gentlemanloser]

1: Matched Play 'Rule of 1' for Psychic Powers

 

2: GKT Leadership being 1 point lower than the rest f the Imperials

 

Any others?

[Holier Than Thou]

1: Matched Play 'Rule of 1' for Psychic Powers

 

2: GKT Leadership being 1 point lower than the rest f the Imperials

 

Any others?

Psycannons being a poor-man's Assault Cannon?

 

Maybe a solution to the Rule of One is just changing Hammerhand and Gate to "Affects the caster and a single unit within 3"?

 

Not just Grey Knights but, Flamer Weapons should ignore cover bonuses to the target's armour save.

Edited June 1, 2017 by Holier Than Thou

[Holier Than Thou]

Something I have noticed, the Chainsword, Champion's Blade and Combat Knife all state "Each time the bearer fights, it can make 1 additional attack with this weapon."

 

Our Dreadfist and Falchions state "If a model is equipped with two Dreadfists/Nemesis Falchions, each time it fights it can make 1 additional attack with them."

 

Does this mean we get two extra attacks as we get an extra attack with them, plural?

[Valerian]

No, still just 1 additional attack.

[Valerian]

It would be different if it said "with each of them," instead of "with them."

[Gentlemanloser]

Seconded!  It say 'with them' as you need both to qualify for the single extra attack.

[Valerian]

This is cool for all Characters. Makes everyone a little more useful.

[Dread]

So it's just models within 7" not units? That will suck bunching them all up to get this ability, wouldn't it?

[Valerian]

So it's just models within 7" not units? That will suck bunching them all up to get this ability, wouldn't it?

 

You've got to look at what the actual special rules say, and both of our big aura buffs (Rites of Battle and Sacred Banner) say 'units' and not 'models,' so all you have to do is keep at least one model from any units within 6" of the Grand Master, Ancient, or Brother-Captain to get the buff for the whole unit.

 

V

[Everon]

So it's random and all, but just curious, any leaks on the assassin's and custodes? Just thinking mayhaps their keywords might make them of use to fill some holes..

[Dread]

Ah, got it. It's gonna take a bit for all the rules to mesh in my head.

[Soder]

So it's random and all, but just curious, any leaks on the assassin's and custodes? Just thinking mayhaps their keywords might make them of use to fill some holes..

Vindicare is 90 points, down from 150 (still one of the most expensive assassins) no more unique ammo that does different things. 72" Heavy1 S5 AP-3 Dd3, invul save can not be taken against, wounds "infantry" on a 2+ And a few other shooty/shroudy special rules

Edited June 2, 2017 by Soder

[Zamtro]

 

So it's random and all, but just curious, any leaks on the assassin's and custodes? Just thinking mayhaps their keywords might make them of use to fill some holes..

Vindicare is 90 points, down from 150 (still one of the most expensive assassins) no more unique ammo that does different things. 72" Heavy1 S5 AP-3 Dd3, invul save can not be taken against, wounds "infantry" on a 2+ And a few other shooty/shroudy special rules

 

all 4 of the assassins are so much cheaper now that I would feel ridiculous not taking at least one in every game! But I used too anyway because I just loved the idea of assassins...

[Gentlemanloser]

Thread on some fluff leaks;

 

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/334224-8th-edition-fluff-spoilers/

 

Still no Grey Knights.

 

Come on GW, even if I *wasn't* a GK fan I'd be asking what the hell?

 

The Chapter designed to face Chaos.  The largest Chaos invasion of all time.  Cadia gone.  Warp Rift cutting off half the Galaxy.

 

 

And not a single mention of the Grey Knights doing *anything* about it?

[Myunch]

We don't exist lol

[Commander Dawnstar]

As someone who's actually read (most of) Dark Imperium, I can confirm that the Grey Knights are mentioned in passing as being stationed throughout the fleet of Guilliman's Indomitus Crusade so that they can answer any daemonic manifestations as the fleet engages in battle around a major warp rift. Admittedly even in that role they're playing second-fiddle to the Sisters of Silence (who do the same job and more) but at the very least they're acknowledged as part of the Indomitus Crusade and being used by Guilliman in a way that shows he sees them as a valuable asset.

[Grand Master Iapetus]

 

Losers:

• Purifiers just have 1 base Attack now, so they're more like regular Marines, vice veterans.  Only Mastery Level 1 now, too.
• Now, the only thing that differentiates Purifiers from Strikes is the better version of Smite (but with an extremely short 3" range), and the ability to double-up on the ranged special weapons.  Not sure I'd even bother with Purifiers in 8e, especially since they are 7 points each more expensive.

 

I definitely expected a nerf to Cleansing Flame - other than DreadKnights this was one of the brighter spots in the codex.  DS or dropping them out of Stormravens into strategic spots was really OP if you played it well.  That being said, it's interesting to see how viable their upgraded Smite will actually be on the table. 

 

What I didn't expect was the nerf to the statline.  They are our equivalent to a vet squad, and only one attack?  No extra WS/BS?  And they are also one of the few units that don't have Teleport Strike as a special rule...really?  I thought:  "Those have to be misprints..."  Potentially the least cost effective unit in the 'dex...

 

 

I feel everyone is missing something rather unfortunate...

 

Our terminators have LD 7 -> leader has LD 8. This stuns me. ALL other terminators have LD 8 -> leader LD 9, and deathwing + DW termies have a fearless. What the hell happened? I still enjoy GKs as an elite, high point army, but small things like this can stack up hard against us.

 

Interesting on the LD...I'm having the same "misprint" thought...maybe a slight balance to the D3 that our weapons dish out?

 

***

 

Also - two new questions:

 

Storm Bolters - with new rapid fire rules, that equates to 4 shots.  Plus being assault, you can advance and still shoot / rapid fire.  What I didn't seen in the rapid fire entry was a prohibition from charging.  Did I miss something?  Get within 12"  rapid fire and then charge striking first?  That would be pretty devastating with D3 melee weapons...

 

Teleport Strike - I didn't see anything saying that you couldn't charge after teleporting in, and it appears there is no more scatter.  Did I miss something here also?  I know 9" is a slight stretch. (1" beyond the standard 2D6=7" average charge when you factor in the new 1" instead of base for close combat).  But it seems like it would be worth the risk IMO if you can charge after teleporting.

 

Apologies in advance if these last 2 have already been covered...

Edited June 10, 2017 by Grand Master Iapetus

[Waking Dreamer]

 

I feel everyone is missing something rather unfortunate...

 

Our terminators have LD 7 -> leader has LD 8. This stuns me. ALL other terminators have LD 8 -> leader LD 9, and deathwing + DW termies have a fearless. What the hell happened? I still enjoy GKs as an elite, high point army, but small things like this can stack up hard against us.

 

Interesting on the LD...I'm having the same "misprint" thought...maybe a slight balance to the D3 that our weapons dish out?

 

***

 

Also - two new questions:

 

Storm Bolters - with new rapid fire rules, that equates to 4 shots.  Plus being assault, you can advance and still shoot / rapid fire.  What I didn't seen in the rapid fire entry was a prohibition from charging.  Did I miss something?  Get within 12"  rapid fire and then charge striking first?  That would be pretty devastating with D3 melee weapons...

 

Teleport Strike - I didn't see anything saying that you couldn't charge after teleporting in, and it appears there is no more scatter.  Did I miss something here also?  I know 9" is a slight stretch. (1" beyond the standard 2D6=7" average charge when you factor in the new 1" instead of base for close combat).  But it seems like it would be worth the risk IMO if you can charge after teleporting.

 

Apologies in advance if these last 2 have already been covered...

 

 

Yeah, Im hoping the Terminator Ld was a reasonable misprint as well.

 

As for Stormbolters they are no longer assault weapons. If you advance with assault weapons, yes you can still shoot (at -1 To Hit), but forfeit the ability to charge in your turn anyway.

 

Rapid fire 2 allows GKs to teleport within 12" of enemy, fire for 4 shots per SB and then charge. So SBs as Rapid Fire instead of Assault is probably better for our GKs.

[Valerian]

Also, you have to roll a 9+ on your charge range, since models have to placed more than 9" away from any enemy models.  So, if your more than 9" away, you have to roll a 9 at least to get to within 1" to be considered locked in combat.

[Adeptus]

What I didn't expect was the nerf to the statline.  They are our equivalent to a vet squad, and only one attack?  No extra WS/BS?  And they are also one of the few units that don't have Teleport Strike as a special rule...really?  I thought:  "Those have to be misprints..."  Potentially the least cost effective unit in the 'dex...

I don't mind the stat nerf. They're not supposed to be more highly trained, experienced or naturally adapted to fighting than other Grey Knights, they just have a special purity of spirit, maybe a psychic connection to one another. Having 1 attack each is fine by me. We don't need to have a generic 'Grey Knight Veterans' unit, so I don't feel bad that Purifiers are losing that role.

[Plasmablasts]

I pondered with misgivings the GKTs' new Ld 7, but then considered that it's now not purely an indication of bravery/morale, but can also represent discipline and experience, so I'm not too bothered about a GKT, who might be fresh out of Titan, having the same Ld value as a Tactical marine, who will have semi-veteran levels of experience. The immunity to the horrors of the Warp of the one is effectively balanced by the decades of battlefield experience of the other. The example in my mind is Hyperion's over-enthusiasm and lack of discipline in The Emperor's Gift which leads to the loss of a fellow squad member: that could be represented well by a failed morale roll.

[Gentlemanloser]

GKT aren't fresh out of Titan in the new fluff though.

 

Strikes are our Scouts. New Recruits spend time in Strike Squads before moving to the others.

 

There is no reason out GKT don't have the same 'veteren' stats as every other Marine.