==][==Grey Knights 8e Full Rules==][==

[Seizeman]

Well, they are troop choices instead of elite, that's probably the reason. Fluff wise does not make any sense, but is ok gameplay wise I guess. WIth ATSKNF you are not loosing models to morale too often anyway.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Purifiers just got destroyed by their changes. Someone really had salt about 'Cleansing Flame', its total garbage now. 3" range is a joke. 

[Captain Coolpants]

Purifiers just got destroyed by their changes. Someone really had salt about 'Cleansing Flame', its total garbage now. 3" range is a joke.

but now we can use powers in combat again. I think that's the point really for the short range and 1 less attack each.

 

Clearly the GW rules boffins thought that was enough... I don't agree. But I'm yet to play a game

[Reclusiarch Darius]

They can't Teleport Strike, so you're relying on Gate to get into combat. And Psychic phase occurs before melee, so you have to survive a turn of melee just to use Purifying Flame. 

 

Purifiers just aren't viable in this incarnation. 

[Soder]

ATTEMPT to gate them in, ATTEMPT the charge, get overwatched AND survive a turn of CC! All seems way too unreliable, but who knows, maybe it's viable. I'll def need too play test them. Otherwise my 10 purifiers will just end up on the shelf/used as more interceptors!

[Valerian]

They actually have to survive two turns of close combat before they would get to attempt the power when locked in.  There is a Fight phase in your player turn, and again in you opponent's player turn, before your turn rolls around again to case Psychic powers.

[Gentlemanloser]

Unless the BC aura does stack....

 

/innocent

[Soder]

They actually have to survive two turns of close combat before they would get to attempt the power when locked in. There is a Fight phase in your player turn, and again in you opponent's player turn, before your turn rolls around again to case Psychic powers.

Completely right! They're seeming less and less viable every second lol. My poor purifiers :(

Think we'll get to see a GK faction focus before the release date? Seems like GW has kinda given up on them. I'd love to see what it says

Edited June 11, 2017 by Soder

[Plasmablasts]

Don't actually have to be in melee to use Cleansing Flame, so if you can get 1"-3" away from an enemy unit, you can cast and then stroll into melee if desired during the charge phase.

[Valerian]

Don't actually have to be in melee to use Cleansing Flame, so if you can get 1"-3" away from an enemy unit, you can cast and then stroll into melee if desired during the charge phase.

 

True, but someone brought up the subject of casting in melee, which is why we were discussing that in particular.  

[Sothalor]

Now, maybe I'm not qualified to weigh in on this discussion - I'm not predominantly a 40K gamer; I'm more of a consumer of its background and fiction and artwork.

 

However, the Grey Knight models were what got me into the tabletop miniatures aspect of the hobby, and each time a new edition comes along I think, "this time I'll complete that GK army!" It hasn't happened yet - but I have to admit, this edition, I don't think that.

 

From what I see of the revealed rules, they're just... boring. I'll be the first to admit I have no idea where the Grey Knights stand in terms of playability and competitiveness (or indeed, at this point if anybody knows given how new 8th is). But the list and rules just seem so bland to me. And the psychic rules relegate most GK units to spamming weakened Smites? You get *one* Hammerhand and *one* Gate of Infinity each turn?

 

It feels like the Grey Knights have lost a lot of the character and flavor that distinguished them from other Marines.

[Soder]

 

 

Don't actually have to be in melee to use Cleansing Flame, so if you can get 1"-3" away from an enemy unit, you can cast and then stroll into melee if desired during the charge phase.

True, but someone brought up the subject of casting in melee, which is why we were discussing that in particular.

That is true but I challenge you good sir! How? Footslogging it up the battle field, they'll pbly all get picked off, I don't have enough experience with the new transport vehicles but hopefully they might be a good way to get those purifiers into close enough range. I could maybe see one being able to teleport into cover close to the enemy and then moving into range the next turn that way?

(Edit: they can't even teleport strike, I dunno why I said that! At least if they had made them able to do that after removing their 2 attacks maybe I wouldn't be as bitter) They could gate tho.

There needs to be a justified reason for the attack and the cleansing flame nerf and I just don't feel there is one.

We'll see!.. I'll stay optimistic! They seem to rely on too many what ifs/luck right now when there are better more guaranteed options to use IMO

Edited June 11, 2017 by Soder

[Adeptus]

Now, maybe I'm not qualified to weigh in on this discussion - I'm not predominantly a 40K gamer; I'm more of a consumer of its background and fiction and artwork.

 

However, the Grey Knight models were what got me into the tabletop miniatures aspect of the hobby, and each time a new edition comes along I think, "this time I'll complete that GK army!" It hasn't happened yet - but I have to admit, this edition, I don't think that.

 

From what I see of the revealed rules, they're just... boring. I'll be the first to admit I have no idea where the Grey Knights stand in terms of playability and competitiveness (or indeed, at this point if anybody knows given how new 8th is). But the list and rules just seem so bland to me. And the psychic rules relegate most GK units to spamming weakened Smites? You get *one* Hammerhand and *one* Gate of Infinity each turn?

 

It feels like the Grey Knights have lost a lot of the character and flavor that distinguished them from other Marines.

 

This is (kinda) true, but you have to remember the rule of one only applies in Matched Play, which by definition is not Narrative Play, which has it's own mode of play.

 

Also, I vastly prefer minimalistic rules sets. I find games often get bogged down in minutiae, so a clean minimalistic rules approach is always nice. 40K is very far from minimalistic, but 8th edition is miles better than 7th in that regard (so far!)

[Muaddib]

 

 

Don't actually have to be in melee to use Cleansing Flame, so if you can get 1"-3" away from an enemy unit, you can cast and then stroll into melee if desired during the charge phase.

True, but someone brought up the subject of casting in melee, which is why we were discussing that in particular.

That is true but I challenge you good sir! How? Footslogging it up the battle field, they'll pbly all get picked off, I don't have enough experience with the new transport vehicles but hopefully they might be a good way to get those purifiers into close enough range. I could maybe see one being able to teleport into cover close to the enemy and then moving into range the next turn that way?

(Edit: they can't even teleport strike, I dunno why I said that! At least if they had made them able to do that after removing their 2 attacks maybe I wouldn't be as bitter) They could gate tho.

There needs to be a justified reason for the attack and the cleansing flame nerf and I just don't feel there is one.

We'll see!.. I'll stay optimistic! They seem to rely on too many what ifs/luck right now when there are better more guaranteed options to use IMO

I thnik i'll try them in a razorback w/AC. They should be able to cast and charge turn 2. Especially if 3/4 of m'y units are already hunting in m'y opponent line of battle and cutting his movements...

[Phiasco]

Sorry if this had already been discussed, but is anyone else liking the Outrider detachment, stick pile some interceptors, add whatever you want to flavor, Dradknight, Paladins, whatever. Everything comes down where you want it on turn one.

[Myunch]

I have actually used this in a 1500 point game recently, absolutely devastated my Tau opponent. Not enough interceptor to make a dent and the alpha strike essentially secured the game befor my opponent even went.

[Waking Dreamer]

Just wanting to make sure...with GoI can the psyker use it on himself?

[Valerian]

Just wanting to make sure...with GoI can the psyker use it on himself?

Yes.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Now, maybe I'm not qualified to weigh in on this discussion - I'm not predominantly a 40K gamer; I'm more of a consumer of its background and fiction and artwork.

 

However, the Grey Knight models were what got me into the tabletop miniatures aspect of the hobby, and each time a new edition comes along I think, "this time I'll complete that GK army!" It hasn't happened yet - but I have to admit, this edition, I don't think that.

 

From what I see of the revealed rules, they're just... boring. I'll be the first to admit I have no idea where the Grey Knights stand in terms of playability and competitiveness (or indeed, at this point if anybody knows given how new 8th is). But the list and rules just seem so bland to me. And the psychic rules relegate most GK units to spamming weakened Smites? You get *one* Hammerhand and *one* Gate of Infinity each turn?

 

It feels like the Grey Knights have lost a lot of the character and flavor that distinguished them from other Marines.

 

 

I disagree, having actually played them. 

 

Smite spamming is janky as hell, but to be fair, we don't do much else in the Psychic phase now. It's to make up for all our special weapons being total garbage now. Even on Dreadknights, I was averaging two hits per heavy psycannon due to dumb -1 to hit from moving and firing a heavy weapon. Hitting on 4's sucks. Psilencer is also total garbage now too. So instead of taking out tougher targets with our unique and cool psychically activated weapons, we just melt their brains inside out. 

 

Our storm bolters finally feel powerful though. I always found it disappointing that despite carrying essentially a micro-rocket machine gun strapped to their wrists, GK base firepower was always so meh. Rapid Fire 2 is the first time I've found our storm bolters actually doing anything. 2+ saves and high Toughness is the only real defence, if you're T3 or T4 and have only average saves, you'll get minced. 

 

Our melee is finally devastating and very much in keeping with our lore. GK are supposed to be so OP that they kill all witnesses, so nobody else learns what a terrifyingly powerful and dangerous weapon works for the Imperium. Falchions are legit, hammers and greatswords hit like a freight train. Again, like with storm bolters, first time I've actually charged, hit and felt powerful in melee. 

 

The auras from Grand Masters and Brother-Captains are both crunchy (as in fantastic buffs) and flavourful (as in they make sense from a lore perspective). The re-roll to 1's on hit rolls from GM is huge, really helps when you roll a string of 1's like I commonly do, and because it applies to them as well, they basically never miss in melee. Brother-Captain doubling Smite range finally gives him a unique and useful role, and he's only marginally less good than the GM in combat so well worth the investment. Librarians aren't auto-includes anymore, they're more a solid auxiliary choice that brings Librarius powers to back up the Sanctic toolset. Our line officers actually seeing play is beneficial for both competitive and narrative aspects. 

 

The Psychic phase is a lot more reliable, but also brutal when you Peril for all psykers now. Nobody gets special treatment, if you double 1 or 6 you're gonna melt yourself to death (and your friends). On the plus side, casting is extremely easy for 5-6 level powers, 8 level can be a bit hit and miss but still quite doable. I wish we still had more powers, but simplicity is a virtue too ('Purge Soul' is like a second weaker Smite, 'Gate' is fantastic for repositioning, 'Hammerhand' is better than 'Might of Heroes' and affects whole squads). 

 

Dreadnoughts are also big winners. They don't die Turn 1 to a random enemy anti-tank weapon anymore, nor can they be glanced to death. 8 wounds at T7 and a 3+ save means you're actually not dying to anything except serious D6 damage weapons etc. Twin lascannon and missile launcher is also highly effective, perhaps more so than DK's in 8th. So if you have Dreadnoughts, dust them off and get them into a Spearhead or Brigade detachment. They're rock solid. 

[Gentlemanloser]

It's still boring.

 

HQ, Paladin and Dreadnoughts are the work horses.

 

And we spam SB and Smite.

 

It might be *effective*, but it's bland and boring.

 

Dreads are the most interesting, with varied weapon loadouts that work, and are strategic choices.

 

Also our GK librarian don't have access to the Librarius powers.  They get sanctic like everyone else.

 

Sure we *can* bring generic SM librarians.  But we can also bring Ironclads, Custodians, Centurion and Thunderwolves as well.

 

 

 

Nobody gets special treatment

 

Apart from Tiggy with some unique psychic buffs and the Eldar naturally.

Edited June 13, 2017 by Gentlemanloser

[Reclusiarch Darius]

It's still boring. 

 

HQ, Paladin and Dreadnoughts are the work horses.

 

And we spam SB and Smite.

 

It might be *effective*, but it's bland and boring.

 

Dreads are the most interesting, with varied weapon loadouts that work, and are strategic choices.

 

Also our GK librarian don't have access to the Librarius powers.  They get sanctic like everyone else.

 

Sure we *can* bring generic SM librarians.  But we can also bring Ironclads, Custodians, Centurion and Thunderwolves as well. 

 

I dunno, I have yet to try out several units. But my first game was fun, GK felt powerful and flexible. We are actually good at all phases of the game now, balanced by being only normal Marine tough. 

 

Dreadnoughts are great, but they're only one piece. Storm bolter can't handle everything else, neither can Smite. It's why I want to give Purgators a go. 'Gate' doesn't say they count as moving (Ork power 'Da Jump' specifically does though, and its otherwise identical in its effects). We need a good mid-range firepower unit. I tried DK's but honestly they should ditch guns and just Advance until they hit charge range. 

 

Probs take Exorcist Librarian next time then. GK Librarians seem kinda useless. 

 

Not motivated to do Super Friends. I like GK pure. 

[Waking Dreamer]

 

I dunno, I have yet to try out several units. But my first game was fun, GK felt powerful and flexible. We are actually good at all phases of the game now, balanced by being only normal Marine tough. 

 

 

 

Dreadnoughts are great, but they're only one piece. Storm bolter can't handle everything else, neither can Smite. It's why I want to give Purgators a go. 'Gate' doesn't say they count as moving (Ork power 'Da Jump' specifically does though, and its otherwise identical in its effects). We need a good mid-range firepower unit. I tried DK's but honestly they should ditch guns and just Advance until they hit charge range. 

 

Probs take Exorcist Librarian next time then. GK Librarians seem kinda useless. 

 

Not motivated to do Super Friends. I like GK pure. 

 

 

Im hoping our codex gives us additional Sanctic powers and effective Relics so as to stay pure Grey Knights but being uniquely competative as well.  Imagine having your GK libby being able to cast Sanctuary or say Astral Aim (add 1 to your Hit rolls in the shooting phase) on your Dreadknights! They could be nearly as reliable as they were in 7th.

 

Right now they gave us the choice to give each unit whatever Sanctic power we want but...we can only attempt that power once...seems like 1 step forward and 2 steps back. 

 

Again, hopefully our codex will continue to propel are army forward - competitively and uniquely!

Edited June 13, 2017 by Waking Dreamer

[Gentlemanloser]

Gating counts as movement.

 

I'll dig out the rule section later.

 

With our special weapons so bad, even a 4 psilencer squad is bad...

[Myunch]

Gating counts as movement.

 

I'll dig out the rule section later.

 

With our special weapons so bad, even a 4 psilencer squad is bad...

It would seem that way. Sadly only our GM's or Draigo can mitigate that... it really is a shame, cuz a Purgation Squad of Psilencers at 113 points a squad of 5 would be something I'd be interested in running in multiples if they could get better BS somehow.

[Gentlemanloser]

From the Reinforcements sideboxof the Movement Phase;

 

 

 

 

Many units have the ability to be set up on the battlefield mid turn <snip> but it can also happen during other phases <snip> units that are set up in this manner <snip> units that arrive as reinforcements count as having moved in the movement phase for all rules purposes

 

GoI

 

 

 

immediately set it up

 

While it might be RAI that 'reinforcements' only applies to units setting up from reserves, the rules equate anyone with the ability to set up mid phase to being a 'reinforcement' and subject to having moved.

Edited June 13, 2017 by Gentlemanloser