Paladin versus Custodians (8th Edition!)

[Gentlemanloser]

Hi Internal consistency and balance!

 

Paladin (Elite)

 

5" / 3+ / 3+ / 4 / 4 / 3 / 3 / 8 / 2+

 

5++ Save

 

Psyker, Manifest 1 Power (Smite + 1 Sanctic), Deny 1

Teleport Attack

 

Points: 55

 

 

Custodian (Troop)

 

6" / 2+ / 3+ / 5 / 5 / 3 / 3 / 8 / 2+

 

5++ Save

 

Points: 49 (Sentinel Blade) / 52 (Guardian Spear)

 

 

So, better stats and cheaper.  At the loss of 'Deep Strike' and the ability to throw out a nerfed Smite.

 

 

As both are 'Imperium' Faction Keyword units, both can be used in a GK (or any other Imperial...) Army.

 

Custodians get no 'nades, but that hardly matters in 8th.

[Commander Dawnstar]

The other thing to tack on to this is that Custodes can pay 25 points for a Vexilia that offers essentially the same benefits to the squad as the banner held by a 142 point Paladin Ancient.

[Valerian]

In fairness, the Paladins get Smite and an additional power.  All three of their other choices have good utility, depending on what you want to do with them, especially that one that does mortal wounds based on the difference of a d6 + Leadership roll-off.

[Gentlemanloser]

It doesn't really matter if they have Hammerhand.  If another unit has already used it, the Paladins then can't.

 

I guess this isn't an issue if we only ever field three GK units in total...

[Captain Coolpants]

I was waiting for this haha. I noticed the same thing and just blanked it out of annoyance.

 

Literally superior stats, but a few points less? Sense, it makes not!

 

We actually pay a few points more to simply throw out a single mortal wound, or D3 + 1 to ourselves...

[jeffersonian000]

You are forgetting that the points are not necessarily balanced against each other, but against what else is in the faction. Could be the Grey Knight keyword is worth the 6 point difference.

 

SJ

[Gentlemanloser]

There's nothing in the Grey Knight faction. Yet.

 

We also share the Imperium Faction, and are in essence the same army anyway.

[Adeptus]

You are forgetting that the points are not necessarily balanced against each other, but against what else is in the faction. Could be the Grey Knight keyword is worth the 6 point difference.

 

SJ

 

It's tempting to think so, but historically pointing models so they're balanced within their faction, but underpriced compared to other factions, simply results in people spamming the underpriced units and skewing the balance entirely.

[jeffersonian000]

 

 

You are forgetting that the points are not necessarily balanced against each other, but against what else is in the faction. Could be the Grey Knight keyword is worth the 6 point difference.

 

SJ

It's tempting to think so, but historically pointing models so they're balanced within their faction, but underpriced compared to other factions, simply results in people spamming the underpriced units and skewing the balance entirely.

That's not what I said. I said maybe the Grey Knight keyword is worth the difference over the Custodes keyword.

 

SJ

[Valerian]

As GML said above, for now at least, until our actual Codex eventually comes out, all of the stuff with the Imperium keyword is just one big army (or Grand Alliance, to borrow an AoS term).  There literally is no difference in putting GKT in a Troops slot vice putting the Custodes in a Troops slot at this point.  When the Codex hits, we'll likely end up with some Faction-specific stratagems that will reward an all-Grey Knights Detachment, but for now those don't yet exist.

 

Only effect right now, is that the Custodes wouldn't benefit from any Grey Knights keyword buffs that your Characters give out.  Put those GKT or Paladins near a Grand Master, for example, and now they're re-rolling all hits of a 1, in shooting and in close combat, which is a pretty good deal.  Put them near a Brotherhood or Paladin Ancient, and they're adding 1 to Leadership and gaining an additional Attack in close combat.  Maybe those buffs, either separate or together, are enough to push our own units over the top vice the Custodes - maybe not, but we really ought to account for the dynamics of playing the army together, and getting rewarded for it.

 

V

[Gentlemanloser]

The bubble is only 6", unless we load up on Characters, I don't think the majoirty of our Army is ever going to benefit.

 

If you take Custodian over Paladin/GKT, they won't get any rerolls (unless you useRG as your character ofc...) but the GKGM could be only within 6" of your two NDK, so that's not an issue.

 

All the individual armies needed far stronger selfbuffs in these Indexes.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

I have a feeling that the reason so much of our list feels generic and boring is because its an stopgap measure. 

 

My hope is that when the actual army books come out, we will see rebalances and changes to give us unique options and thematic abilities. 

[jeffersonian000]

There are few things more permanent than a stopgap measure. Just saying.

 

SJ

[Gentlemanloser]

When RD? A years time?

 

A couple of months? If it's a short time then GW should have delayed release of 8th until all codexes were ready.

 

I have a bad feeling we're going to be stuck the way we are for a long time...

[Seizeman]

Custiodians are not better than Paladins.

 

The extra strenght is not that good with the new wounding table, specially when paladins can just cast hammerhand which is a lot better than the extra strenght.

The extra thoughnes is ok vs S 8 or 9, but not really amazing.

 

On the other hand, Paladins can deep strike wich is huge. Custodians will never reach combat unless you pay for a very expensive land raider for each unit. Of course, as people have pointed, no GK auras or any other army benefit.

 

So, once you see past the numbers, custodians are not better than paladins.

[Adeptus]

Going off the 'Ravening Hordes' comparison for, what was it, 6th edition WHFB? We could be without a codex for a couple of years or more. And when it comes, there's no guarantee it will be any good.