Gentlemanloser Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 Mortal Wounds are the D strength weapons of 8th, and ignore all saves including invulerable. They are somewhat difficult to come by, except every GK unit gets the Smite psychic power. Which is 12" range and causes a single Mortal Wound. Is Smite spam really that bad? Or is it potentially the best thing the GK can being to the table (aside from dreadfisting NDK)? Sprinkle in Brother Captains and we get our Smite attacks back to 24". Go MSU, use Storm Bolters to whittle down hordes and smash out as many Mortal Wounds as possible? That said, at only 1 per cast, it would take our whole army to just kill a character or two with Smites. So maybe not that effective... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/334106-grey-knights-and-mortal-wounds/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffersonian000 Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 Mortal Wounds are the D strength weapons of 8th, and ignore all saves including invulerable. They are somewhat difficult to come by, except every GK unit gets the Smite psychic power. Which is 12" range and causes a single Mortal Wound. Is Smite spam really that bad? Or is it potentially the best thing the GK can being to the table (aside from dreadfisting NDK)? Sprinkle in Brother Captains and we get our Smite attacks back to 24". Go MSU, use Storm Bolters to whittle down hordes and smash out as many Mortal Wounds as possible? That said, at only 1 per cast, it would take our whole army to just kill a character or two with Smites. So maybe not that effective... Maybe Smite lets you snipe specific models. If so, it's worth it. SJ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/334106-grey-knights-and-mortal-wounds/#findComment-4764908 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted May 31, 2017 Author Share Posted May 31, 2017 Closest target only. Can't choose who you target. :( Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/334106-grey-knights-and-mortal-wounds/#findComment-4764948 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prot Posted June 1, 2017 Share Posted June 1, 2017 Match play allows you to cast one of each (non-Smite) power I believe. And the vanilla Smite is really hard to get out of control with because most will foresee it, and try to have fodder as the closest unit. There is Gate of Course which is great. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/334106-grey-knights-and-mortal-wounds/#findComment-4764984 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seizeman Posted June 2, 2017 Share Posted June 2, 2017 People are complaining that our smite only does 1 mortal wound, but a librarian's smite averages 2,18 wounds, and it is one of two powers they can cast on a fairly expensive model. So getting a free smite on every unit is actually really really good. Killing a space marine or half a terminator basically for free is well worth it, and just dealing the last 1 or 2 wounds to a vehicle or monster is amazing. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/334106-grey-knights-and-mortal-wounds/#findComment-4768230 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted June 2, 2017 Author Share Posted June 2, 2017 I think it's the prospect of Perils, and the amount of mortal wounds we can do to ourselfs, compared to the output of only 1 wound, that's getting to folk most. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/334106-grey-knights-and-mortal-wounds/#findComment-4768296 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myunch Posted June 2, 2017 Share Posted June 2, 2017 I think it's the prospect of Perils, and the amount of mortal wounds we can do to ourselfs, compared to the output of only 1 wound, that's getting to folk most. Agreed, the reward VS. risk here is completely out of whack. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/334106-grey-knights-and-mortal-wounds/#findComment-4768331 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valerian Posted June 2, 2017 Share Posted June 2, 2017 I think it's the prospect of Perils, and the amount of mortal wounds we can do to ourselfs, compared to the output of only 1 wound, that's getting to folk most. That's exactly it. If we had an Aegis that allowed us to ignore Perils on double-sixes, for example, while keeping the Perils on double-ones, I don't think anyone would be complaining. The 1/18 chance to Perils, when you might be casting powers with 12+ units every turn, means you're averaging a Perils 4-5 times per game at d3 mortal wounds, plus extra mortal wounds to nearby units sometimes. That's just too much penalty for trying to play with a heavily Psychic army. I get that this risk is in the fluff, but the tabletop occurrence is way too common. Before GW leaked the Psychic phase article, I was really hoping they had decided to drop Perils in 8e. There is nothing like it for magic in AoS - no risk at all for casting magic spells, and some of those are quite powerful. Sigh. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/334106-grey-knights-and-mortal-wounds/#findComment-4768483 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waking Dreamer Posted June 2, 2017 Share Posted June 2, 2017 I think it's the prospect of Perils, and the amount of mortal wounds we can do to ourselfs, compared to the output of only 1 wound, that's getting to folk most. That's exactly it. If we had an Aegis that allowed us to ignore Perils on double-sixes, for example, while keeping the Perils on double-ones, I don't think anyone would be complaining. The 1/18 chance to Perils, when you might be casting powers with 12+ units every turn, means you're averaging a Perils 4-5 times per game at d3 mortal wounds, plus extra mortal wounds to nearby units sometimes. That's just too much penalty for trying to play with a heavily Psychic army. I get that this risk is in the fluff, but the tabletop occurrence is way too common. Before GW leaked the Psychic phase article, I was really hoping they had decided to drop Perils in 8e. There is nothing like it for magic in AoS - no risk at all for casting magic spells, and some of those are quite powerful. Sigh. It's possible we get GK only specific rules (e.g. Aegis) in our eventual codex right, along with our relics? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/334106-grey-knights-and-mortal-wounds/#findComment-4768496 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seizeman Posted June 2, 2017 Share Posted June 2, 2017 Even with perils, you are dealing 7 wounds for every one you take, 1/16 is a really low chance. If you are low on models and are afraid of loosing the squad, just don't cast it, is not the main power of the unit, just a very useful bonus. You can even use a CP reroll if you have to cast it anyway. Basically there's no reason to not cast it every turn unless you are using it vs gretchins or don't want to risk loosing a controlled objective. Oh, and if you play vs demons (and every mounted chaos CG is a demon now), it deals 3 dmg which is absolutely ridiculous. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/334106-grey-knights-and-mortal-wounds/#findComment-4768505 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valerian Posted June 2, 2017 Share Posted June 2, 2017 It's possible we get GK only specific rules (e.g. Aegis) in our eventual codex right, along with our relics? That's quite true, and I'm hoping we can influence the design Studio a bit in that direction between now and codex release. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/334106-grey-knights-and-mortal-wounds/#findComment-4768528 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valerian Posted June 2, 2017 Share Posted June 2, 2017 Even with perils, you are dealing 7 wounds for every one you take, 1/16 is a really low chance. If you are low on models and are afraid of loosing the squad, just don't cast it, is not the main power of the unit, just a very useful bonus. You can even use a CP reroll if you have to cast it anyway. Basically there's no reason to not cast it every turn unless you are using it vs gretchins or don't want to risk loosing a controlled objective. Oh, and if you play vs demons (and every mounted chaos CG is a demon now), it deals 3 dmg which is absolutely ridiculous. Yeah, I've already pretty much resigned myself to saving Command Points for Perils re-rolls. At least there is that to mitigate the whole thing. Would prefer to get to use them for other advantages in the game, though, and just never have cared for the Perils rule anyway; especially in an era where the psychic powers have been toned down to where they're not going to dominate the game in the same way that certain powers in 7e did. Definitely true about Daemons, though. Smite spam is going to make a big difference there. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/334106-grey-knights-and-mortal-wounds/#findComment-4768587 Share on other sites More sharing options...
duz_ Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 Im glad perils stayed and that they give reason to think before casting. I am disappointed in general with how toned down the powers got + rule of one. Im sure there was a better compromise than completely nerfing the phase. At this point I'd question its usefulness especially for GKs. Hopefully when codexes drop we see some improvement for perils, psychic defense and offense. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/334106-grey-knights-and-mortal-wounds/#findComment-4781442 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted June 13, 2017 Author Share Posted June 13, 2017 Other little things to remember are; Librairans, including GK Libbies, don't get the nerfed Smite. Their Smite is 18", 1d3 Mortal Wounds Brother Captains double the range of Smite (I'd still like to see official clarification on this power stacking or not). We can use Brother Captains to double the 18" Range of GK Librarains (GK only!) Smite. 36", 1d3 Mortal Wounds. Now if BCs Psychic Locus stacks... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/334106-grey-knights-and-mortal-wounds/#findComment-4781459 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valerian Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 Smite hits closest unit, so it's not like multiple stacking BC ranges would ever make much difference anyway, aside from with Purifiers. All of the other units already get plenty enough range to be able to hit an enemy target. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/334106-grey-knights-and-mortal-wounds/#findComment-4781484 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted June 13, 2017 Author Share Posted June 13, 2017 Ment to also add usual Deny Range is 24", so getting Smite over that range moves us out of Deny range as well. A second BC stacking would turn Libbies into 72" range 1d3 Mortal Wound blasters. Which should be enough to cover the majority of the board. You'd have to use LoS blocking to target anything other than the closest units though. But could happily camp in your own DZ and blast away. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/334106-grey-knights-and-mortal-wounds/#findComment-4781491 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted June 13, 2017 Author Share Posted June 13, 2017 Question from the Agents subforum. What happens if we try to Smite and the closest unit is a unit of Sisters of Silence or the Culexes Assassin? Do we have to cast smite at them as they are the closest unit, which then simply fails as they can't be effected? As they can't be targets by Psychic Powers, do they count as a unit for working out the closest unit? Smite doesn't say 'closest eligible' unit, just closest. Another one for the day 1 FAQ! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/334106-grey-knights-and-mortal-wounds/#findComment-4781526 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valerian Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 Says closest unit, so no Smite in that case if they're immune to it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/334106-grey-knights-and-mortal-wounds/#findComment-4781546 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted June 13, 2017 Author Share Posted June 13, 2017 Easy way to shut all Psychic armies down! ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/334106-grey-knights-and-mortal-wounds/#findComment-4781571 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 Psychic Locus doesn't stack FYI. It's obvious from the wording. In my first game, Mortal Wounds seem best at nuking characters and either softening up or finishing off a target. By itself, Smite spam won't win you games. With all of our special weapons being total trash, and even DK special weapons kinda meh, Mortal Wounds are our answer to strong invul saves or high Toughness. You still want heavy weapons to back you up, no way you can deal with 8W+ targets efficiently otherwise (especially not in multiples). Haven't played into a Culexus yet. I'm thinking regular shooting and melee can still kill one, same for Sisters of Silence. Purifiers are total trash, 3" Smite or 6" is a joke, doesn't matter that isn't more powerful when they can't Teleport Strike, and Gate/transports won't put you into 3" or 6" range often. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/334106-grey-knights-and-mortal-wounds/#findComment-4781683 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMostGood Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 Reece from frontlinegaming has said that unless stated otherwise, buffs and debuffs are not cumulative. Would need an FAQ to be totally sure, but that's what he said. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/334106-grey-knights-and-mortal-wounds/#findComment-4781711 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valerian Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 Easy way to shut all Psychic armies down! That's kinda their whole purpose, isn't it? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/334106-grey-knights-and-mortal-wounds/#findComment-4781713 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted June 13, 2017 Author Share Posted June 13, 2017 I dislike binary hard counters. GW have a hard time balancing the game. Let alone with these. TS dominate the psychic phase and are designed / costed as such. Enemy adds in a couple of cheap units and shuts your entire army design down. With nothing you can do about it. Hoorah! More granuality please GW. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/334106-grey-knights-and-mortal-wounds/#findComment-4781813 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 Reece from frontlinegaming has said that unless stated otherwise, buffs and debuffs are not cumulative. Would need an FAQ to be totally sure, but that's what he said. Doesn't need an FAQ. The wording on Psychic Locus is plural, its if you're in range of any Brother-Captains, you just get doubled Smite range. Can't stack because it doesn't care if its 1 or a million BC's. Eh I don't mind pariah's featuring more on the battlefield. They mean nothing to non-psykers, so its hardly game-breakingly good. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/334106-grey-knights-and-mortal-wounds/#findComment-4782732 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Coolpants Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 I kinda wish our powerful guys didn't have the rites of banishment rule. Even voldus, a super awesome psyker, can only use the scrub version of smite. Which is kinda lame really. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/334106-grey-knights-and-mortal-wounds/#findComment-4783066 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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