8th edition loadouts

[Valerian]

Is it just me, or does anyone else feel like running stock GK with no upgrades is really attractive at the moment. Between Rapid Fire 2, Smite, and our usual bevy of Nemesis weapons, our specialty weapons are kind of lacking.

 

SJ

 

Can't disagree.  

[Ogedei Khan]

I'm thinking, using the vanguard detachment.

Voldus

15 paladins (3 squads falchons, hammers on justicars)

20 interceptors (combat squaded)

3 rifleman dreds (2 twin autocannons)

Possibly drop a paladin for Draigo. Thoughts?

Edited June 2, 2017 by Ogedei Khan

[Waking Dreamer]

So which of the special weapons for our infantry is the least meh?

[Ogedei Khan]

My preference is incinerator. No penalties for moving, and it's tasty in overwatch. Otherwise I'd stick with just stormbolters. Edited June 2, 2017 by Ogedei Khan

[Valerian]

Yeah, I'm thinking Incinerator.  It isn't that great on the offense, as you're likely to get more dudes with your basic Storm Bolter and Force weapon load out when shooting and charging, but in a defensive posture against Orks, Tyranids, and Daemons, those auto-hits on Overwatch are pretty nice, and might help thin out the attacking force a bit.

 

On the other hand, they're 14 points each on regular GK, so you could almost just get a whole other Marine for the cost, and two Grey Knights are much better than one Grey Knight with an Incinerator.

[Gentlemanloser]

So 8th isn't released yet and we're already coming to the 'standard' every GK list will be measured against.

 

Draig/Voldus

 

Paladin

 

Interceptors

 

Dreadnoughts

 

 

Reminds me so much of the start of 7th and the monolist we had then.

 

 

Excitment for 8th is pretty much dead at his point.

Edited June 2, 2017 by Gentlemanloser

[Seizeman]

I actually like that the storm bolter is this good. In 7th, psycannons did all the work while bolters were just for decoration. It is very satisfying to bury your opponent under heavy amounts of bolter fire.

 

About incinerators, what Valerian said, just buy another marine. They can't even be used when deep striking, and you loose your close combat weapon in case of interceptors, which is awful. And don't worry about overwatching on orks, they should not even be charging you, you need 20 boyz attacking to kill a single Paladin.

 

And this thing about being only good list, I guess most armies will have 1 or 2 viable ones. It is just normal, and should not last long as they will be releasing codexes pretty fast. At least it seems that our "good list" is actually really good, which is a lot more than we had before.

[Waking Dreamer]

Eh, the variability (which we were all hoping for) of our GKs 8th edition Army is sort of "meh" IF everyone's initial analysis on this thread is anything to go by:

 

Dreadknight ---> Dreadnought

Librarians ---> Interceptors

Terminators ---> Paladins

 

Do I see an eventual wish list asking people here how to best make Dreadknights / GKT / GK Librarians "viable" in 8th? Damn, even just typing that feels wrong.

 

Sort of reinforces my philosophy of purchasing, building and painting models you really like and simply enjoy the entire process of making it. So that when one Edition's cornerstone/auto-include model...is the next Edition's never-bring/paperweight - you wont regret it, because it has more value to you than the printed numbers and text on some page in a current book.

Edited June 2, 2017 by Waking Dreamer

[Valerian]

Eh, the variability (which we were all hoping for) of our GKs 8th edition Army is sort of "meh" IF everyone's initial analysis on this thread is anything to go by:

 

Dreadknight ---> Dreadnought

Librarians ---> Interceptors

Terminators ---> Paladins

 

Do I see an eventual wish list asking people here how to best make Dreadknights / GKT / GK Librarians "viable" in 8th? 

 

In fairness, although the Paladins, Interceptors, and Dreadnoughts appear to be optimal, those Terminators, Dreadknights, and a Librarian are still probably viable.  They may actually work out for you just fine, if you play well.  They're just not the most points efficient choices in 8e, when they definitely were in 7e.

[Seizeman]

You should always buy the units you like, if you are buying stuff you don't like just for power, you should probably just play some other game.

 

I have 3 converted dreadnoughts that have been sitting for quite some time and I am glad to be able to field them. At the same time, I also love my beautifuly painted and converted dreadknights and it's a shame I won't be using them for a while, but at some point they will be good again and I'll be happy to play them again.

 

Actually the only units I think are unplayable on the list are Dreadknights and purifiers. Purgation seems pretty useless too. But everything else is fine, Terminators, librarians, strike squads, land raiders, stormravens and ancients all seem perfectly playable.

[Zamtro]

You should always buy the units you like, if you are buying stuff you don't like just for power, you should probably just play some other game.

 

 

Couldn't agree more with that statement, I'll use what I have in various load outs instead of buying a bunch of new models. Even if that means taking slightly subpar units (which may well pull their weight anyway) and hope for good dice rolls :P

[Bartali]

About standard loadouts, I think it is pretty simple. Bolters and falchions.

 

Special weapons are pretty much garbage right now, as you take a -1 penalty to hit even on terminators, and they are ridiculously expensive. On the other hand, Storm bolters have been hugely buffed, they fire twice as much and are a lot better at wounding ( they wound rhinos and dreads on 5+ instead of being impossible, for example). A psycannon is barely superior to a storm bolter, in fact, 2 storm bolters deal most damage than a special weapon in every single situation.

 

As for nemesis weapons, falchions are the right choice in every infantry model. For power armor and regular terminators they are better in every situation. For paladins, halberds are slightly superior vs T5 and considerably superior vs T8 (but they are both garbage vs T8) and falchions are better agains everything else, and A LOT better vs T3. So, all in all, falchions are the right choice.

 

I will include a hammer in every paladin squad, as the paragon is very good with it, and I think I would include one also in every terminator squad (but there's no reason to take terminators over paladins ).

 

BTW, dreadnoughts are amazing, they are the best way to have good heavy weapons in our army. Of the venerable kind and with a laser and autocannon (or two autocannons) they deal with problematic heavy units. Mine are allies from the Silvery Holy Guys chapter, as I am not paying 20 points for a smite I'll never use.

 

As for the  correct loadout for Dreadknights, just don't take dreadknights, they are awful.

 

While Dreadnoughts are good for GK, Razorbacks are better as heavy weapon platforms. More durable, cheaper, and pump out more shots.

Also, I seem to be the sole Stormraven cheerleader - they pump out a ridiculous amount of shooting now.

 

GK are terrible at the moment. Their best lists consistent of :-

 

Interceptors

Dual Autocannon Dreads

Twin Las Razors

Twin AssCan Razors

Stormravens with Twin AssCan, Twin Melta, Hurricane Bolters, Stormstrikes

Some Paladins with no special weapons (if you're feeling fruity)

A non GK Psyker HQ

 

I'd love for the US tournament organisers to explain their thinking when they where play testing GK

 

Edit - As a base I'd play

 

The FA detachment (can't remember the name)

HQ - Another chapters HQ with a jump pack

FA - 6x 5 Interceptors (no upgrades, and them spread out so they don't blow other stuff up when they perils)

Transports - 7x Razorbacks, mixture of AssCans and Las

Edited June 3, 2017 by Bartali

[jeffersonian000]

I'll be fielding:

 

Draigo

Librarian

10 Paladins

20 Interceptors

1 Knight Warden

 

So, not much different than I currently field.

 

SJ

[Waking Dreamer]

Out of curiosity, for those with Paladin-heavy lists are you using your terminator models as paladins, or did you specifically have paladin models that you just didnt use in 7th edition? 

[Zamtro]

"While Dreadnoughts are good for GK, Razorbacks are better as heavy weapon platforms. More durable, cheaper, and pump out more shots.

Also, I seem to be the sole Stormraven cheerleader - they pump out a ridiculous amount of shooting now."

 

Don't worry, I'm loving the Storm Raven too :) I bought mine second hand though and don't have any access to more hurricane bolters so I may have to rig something up myself :P

 

 

 

[Myunch]

Is it just me, or does it seem like anything more than 1 HQ for us is going to be redundant? I can see a Grandmaster and a Brother Captain for the Auras, but aside from that I have a hard time seeing why we would want to take more than 1 HQ for any matched play games.

[Adeptus]

I'm thinking of the Spearhead so I can use my 2 ND and 3 Dreads.  That lets me use however many PA models I want as Interceptors and GKT as Paladin.

I know it's tempting to just 'counts-as' your crappy models as the good ones, but try not to make it a long term solution, yeah? No one likes 'that guy' who just counts his models as whatever ones are the most cost effective all the time.

[jeffersonian000]

Out of curiosity, for those with Paladin-heavy lists are you using your terminator models as paladins, or did you specifically have paladin models that you just didnt use in 7th edition?

I have Paladins from 5th.

 

SJ

[Gentlemanloser]

Because the little pokey bits on the backpack make such a difference, right?

 

And i suppose no one ever used strikes as purgation squad members or vice versa.

 

There is literally no diffetence in models between gkt and paladin, unless *you* want there to be.

 

I'm happy being 'that guy' and telling my mates no is cool your marine modelled with two bolters becuase he looks cool doesn't actually have two bolters, and I'm happy for you to field him...

 

/sigh

[Seizeman]

How is a terminator model different from a paladin one? There's no reason to not use them as you like.

[Gentlemanloser]

Paladin have a slightly curved helmet faceplate, and more 'bling'.

 

But i agree with you 100%.

 

I've got ghost knights i can't use any more. None of my mates worry if i use them as paladin.

[Adeptus]

How is a terminator model different from a paladin one? There's no reason to not use them as you like.

Paladins get a different helmet, and have books on their backs.

 

Sure, you can use your models however you want, and it's totally up to your gaming group to call out behaviour they don't like rather than some random guy on the internet doing it.

 

But I can tell you that wouldn't fly for long at our club for more than a game or two. Really, it's just basic courtesy: You should use the correct rules for the models you have.

[Zamtro]

 

How is a terminator model different from a paladin one? There's no reason to not use them as you like.

Paladins get a different helmet, and have books on their backs.

 

Sure, you can use your models however you want, and it's totally up to your gaming group to call out behaviour they don't like rather than some random guy on the internet doing it.

 

But I can tell you that wouldn't fly for long at our club for more than a game or two. Really, it's just basic courtesy: You should use the correct rules for the models you have.

 

Wow.... That almost sounds toxic honestly... Would people have an issue with me using Scions with hot shot lasguns as Acolytes too?

 

They're both models with TDA and very minor differences. Guess thats the joy of choosing who you play with.

[Seizeman]

There's no reference anywhere about paladins having those differences.

 

If you are referring to the product pictures of both units, the helmet difference can be explained by them just wanting to differentiate them a bit so they don't use the same picture, they also use a severed demon head on the paladin picture, must paladins models always have those too? They mix helmets on the same units inside the codex pictures (it would be absurd that a paladin just throws away his helmet and uses a different when he gets promote). Also, they use the minibanner on regular terminators too.

 

So you are just trying to be more strict that GW itself, which is absolutely ridiculous. Most play groups would not even care if you use different weapons than what's represented on the mini (as long as it can be identified easily, like all devastator weapons being the same one when every model is different).

[Valerian]

++Let's cease with the counts-as discussion. It's off-topic, and isn't going to go anywhere worthwhile.++


V

Edited June 5, 2017 by Valerian