8th List, points discussion and considerations.

[Morticon]

 

 

I dunno, it just seems BA have been hit hard with the nerf stick (i.e. high points or low effectiveness or both) in comparison to vanilla. Given I'm working on repainting a good chunk of my BA stuff anyway (some old paint jobs, I've been a BA collector for 25 odd years), I'm seriously tempted to just give up and just use the boxset primaris to start a *spit* ultramarines army, combine with all the cool toys they get we don't, what older mini marines I have that aren't BA-bits branded, and top off with superboy girlyman. Then I could have a small ally force of death company, libby dread if I really missed my BA.

 

FYI - there's nothing we "dont get" anymore. 

With the way the detachment groups work, we can include centurians and storm hawks and thunderfires to our hearts content!! 

 

The only difference is that bonuses that count for "Blood Angels Chapter" will not apply to us.  That's a tiny price to pay for the fact that, for all intents and purposes, we now have "BA" units we didnt before! 

[Xenith]

I think the SB is a really great suggestion. Will look to it.

 

The Combi-plas, im unsure of. Defs better range and shooting, but the ability to shoot within 1" is quite good in my mind? WIll have to see what I could squeeze out. Maybe change a grav to two HBs

The Combi plasma nets you four shots before you charge, and the pistol 1. Pistol is only really useful if you get charged and survive, or in a protracted combat that spans +2 turns.

 

I generally think it's better to fall back and let the rest of the army shoot then charge your opponent rather than let the tacs stay in combat that long.

 

Rhino with 2 storm bolters get 8 shots at 12 range.

 

You can probably also wrangle a combi plasma onto that Dev serge for more shooty shooty.

[Arkhanist]

 

FYI - there's nothing we "dont get" anymore. 

With the way the detachment groups work, we can include centurians and storm hawks and thunderfires to our hearts content!! 

 

The only difference is that bonuses that count for "Blood Angels Chapter" will not apply to us.  That's a tiny price to pay for the fact that, for all intents and purposes, we now have "BA" units we didnt before! 

 

 

 

I think HQ buff bubbles are going to be pretty important though this edition (a 6" unit bubble can cover a fair bit of table), which you lose with separate chapter detachments. You'd also lose out on future codex chapter specific strategies/tactics if you're relying on the astartes or imperium keyword to tie it together, They specifically wanted to kill multi-source deathstars this edition, which it seems likely will also nerf generic armies somewhat, if AoS keywords are anything to go with - specialised armies get a lot more synergies than using just a grand alliance book. Not to say it wont work of course to pick a unit or two to fill a hole, but it makes sense to mostly stick to one chapter.

 

Anyway, I'm sorry for going a bit wobbly in your strat thread; I've been planning out my BA rebuild/paint for a couple of months now (twin toddlers limit airbrush time!) so I'm just feeling disappointed with the full leak after I started crunching some numbers on it today. 

 

Still - IG armoured companies seem to have it worse! I'll get over it.

[Morticon]

I  hear ya, man! My thoughts are that the loss can be mitigated increidbly well.  

The stuff we get from the SM dex doesnt need to be operating within the bubbles. Our assault units - sure.  But otherstuff isn't so important, I would think.  

And we dont need separate detachments - just one detachment - they share the key word adeptus astartes - so its all gravy!

[Kyrne]

I know we can 'use anything now because Blood Angel key word means nothing.

 

Once codex drops though I guess it's going to mean a fair bit. Ways to get relics / detachment / etc

[vahouth]

I know we can 'use anything now because Blood Angel key word means nothing.

 

Once codex drops though I guess it's going to mean a fair bit. Ways to get relics / detachment / etc

I wouldn't say that the BA keywords means nothing. In fact it does have a meaning, as certain character abilities can buff only units that have the BA keyword.

Edited June 1, 2017 by vahouth

[Morticon]

I know we can 'use anything now because Blood Angel key word means nothing.

 

Once codex drops though I guess it's going to mean a fair bit. Ways to get relics / detachment / etc

 

 

Doesn't mean nothing.  And EVERYONE has lost this.  We will get it back slowly. 

 

For now, all things being equal, we have relatively more than what we had. 

[TheRealMcCagh]

So does it seem like CS/BP or CS/PP DC is the way to go for sure now? Having another attack due to the CS seems like a good way to keep our DC attacks high. I always rocked the CS/BP combo, but it seemed more like a matter of preference than necessity

[Kyrne]

 

 

I know we can 'use anything now because Blood Angel key word means nothing.

 

Once codex drops though I guess it's going to mean a fair bit. Ways to get relics / detachment / etc

 

Doesn't mean nothing. And EVERYONE has lost this. We will get it back slowly.

 

For now, all things being equal, we have relatively more than what we had.

Sorry on phone, didn't mean it means nothing as such. Just building list ignoring it now and adding all the toys we don't have access to, will more than likely come bite you in the arse once our codex drops.

[Morticon]

Played first game today.  Used a slight mod on the list above. 

Took out the Baal and a Razor and tweaked some other things to throw in a Landraider Redeemer. 

Corbulo was nice for the wound back a turn on the DC.  But, the DC died quickly to the fire they took from the exies. :/ Also, penitent engines RIPPED me a new one.  Their first turn, they got their extra move, then moved up again, then 6d6 heavy flamered my jumpers into oblivion :/ 


 

The game itself....Its insane.  So so different tactically.  

I now FULLY believe that pistols are the way to go. Especially considering rhinos will always make it to their targets.  I was stuck in combat with a damned Excorcist for 4 phases.  

Sisters took the game 11-4

Celestine dying to "battle shock" was awesome though.  

[Xenith]

Why didn't you leave combat with them?

[Morticon]

Why didn't you leave combat with them?

 

Because then the Exie would have d6 more S8, -4 shots at me :/ I was preventing it from firing. 

[Xenith]

Oops, was thinking of the ladies with eviscerators, brain fart.

 

What I mean is why didn't you flee with them, then shoot it with all the other las and melta?

 

Not being able to take out a tank in combat without and anti tank weapon is nothing new - in this case, a powerfist is still better than a power weapon or plasma pistol.

[Blindhamster]

So after a bit of thought, I will probably do the primaris as a supplementary force that would work pretty separately in game terms, they can bring a fair bit of firepower (especially once their extra units come out by the look of it!)

 

However I've ordered a second lieutenant to convert into a non gravis captain.

[Morticon]

Oops, was thinking of the ladies with eviscerators, brain fart.

 

What I mean is why didn't you flee with them, then shoot it with all the other las and melta?

 

Not being able to take out a tank in combat without and anti tank weapon is nothing new - in this case, a powerfist is still better than a power weapon or plasma pistol.

I didnt have! Only had 1 las, and no melta in range.  :( 

Also, I had a powerfist sarge :(  Hits on 4s, wounds on 4s, with a 6++  doing d3.  

And remember, in 7th, it was 3+ to hit, 4+ to glance with krak.  

[Blindhamster]

You know there is some real synergy to be had from a few primaris lieutenants, they can even have power swords to be vaguely useful in a more traditional BA army. But rerolls of 1s to wound is nothing to sniff at when it's both melee and shooting!

[durdle-durdle]

Played first game today. Used a slight mod on the list above.

 

Took out the Baal and a Razor and tweaked some other things to throw in a Landraider Redeemer.

 

Corbulo was nice for the wound back a turn on the DC. But, the DC died quickly to the fire they took from the exies. :/ Also, penitent engines RIPPED me a new one. Their first turn, they got their extra move, then moved up again, then 6d6 heavy flamered my jumpers into oblivion :/

 

 

 

The game itself....Its insane. So so different tactically.

 

I now FULLY believe that pistols are the way to go. Especially considering rhinos will always make it to their targets. I was stuck in combat with a damned Excorcist for 4 phases.

 

Sisters took the game 11-4

 

Celestine dying to "battle shock" was awesome though.

Wouldn't single models pass battle shock automatically since they didn't lose any models to flee from?

[Blindhamster]

 

Played first game today. Used a slight mod on the list above.

 

Took out the Baal and a Razor and tweaked some other things to throw in a Landraider Redeemer.

 

Corbulo was nice for the wound back a turn on the DC. But, the DC died quickly to the fire they took from the exies. :/ Also, penitent engines RIPPED me a new one. Their first turn, they got their extra move, then moved up again, then 6d6 heavy flamered my jumpers into oblivion :/

 

 

 

The game itself....Its insane. So so different tactically.

 

I now FULLY believe that pistols are the way to go. Especially considering rhinos will always make it to their targets. I was stuck in combat with a damned Excorcist for 4 phases.

 

Sisters took the game 11-4

 

Celestine dying to "battle shock" was awesome though.

Wouldn't single models pass battle shock automatically since they didn't lose any models to flee from?

Makes sense

[Cronhour]

 

Played first game today. Used a slight mod on the list above.

 

Took out the Baal and a Razor and tweaked some other things to throw in a Landraider Redeemer.

 

Corbulo was nice for the wound back a turn on the DC. But, the DC died quickly to the fire they took from the exies. :/ Also, penitent engines RIPPED me a new one. Their first turn, they got their extra move, then moved up again, then 6d6 heavy flamered my jumpers into oblivion :/

 

 

 

The game itself....Its insane. So so different tactically.

 

I now FULLY believe that pistols are the way to go. Especially considering rhinos will always make it to their targets. I was stuck in combat with a damned Excorcist for 4 phases.

 

Sisters took the game 11-4

 

Celestine dying to "battle shock" was awesome though.

Wouldn't single models pass battle shock automatically since they didn't lose any models to flee from?

 

maybe her cxheerleaders make it count as a 3 model unit? would have thought she'd have a ld of at least 9 though

[Morticon]

She lost a cheerleader- and rolled a 10 -meant 2 models removed :D :D 

[Brother Talarian]

She lost a cheerleader- and rolled a 10 -meant 2 models removed :D :D

How can you roll a 10? Isn't it D6 + models lost? So in this case D6 (6 I guess) +1?

 

As for your thoughts on rhinos, I definitely think armour is a lot more durable and can get you where you want to go without taking casualties.

 

Did your DC have jump packs? Do you think it would be tactically sound to keep them in reserves until turn 2-3 then have them land and charge once things are preoccupied

[Morticon]

O_o holy crap- we were playing 2d6 + casualties...no wonder we were so freaked about battle shock.  It just went from being devastating to not being a concern at all.  WOw.

[Morticon]

 

As for your thoughts on rhinos, I definitely think armour is a lot more durable and can get you where you want to go without taking casualties.

 

Did your DC have jump packs? Do you think it would be tactically sound to keep them in reserves until turn 2-3 then have them land and charge once things are preoccupied

 

I think almost definitely better to have them in reserve.  They got shot up on the board, but then, corbs and meph were hanging around derping. Still, think it adds some flexibility. 

[CrimsonExarch]

Here is my revised 2000 point list. It feels like it could give anything a good go!

 

 

 

[vahouth]

Too few infantry for my liking, but I could see it working good.

Maybe I'm not used to seeing fewer body count in 2000 pts games than before.