Will 8th Edition kill small town Horus Heresy?

[TheAlephNull]

I totally get the quality of the Horus Heresy play style as it currently exists, and the massive financial investment that people have made into the rule books, but am I only one that worries that the divergence of 30K and 40K is going to be very detrimental for the the health of the hobby community?

 

I live in the North Eastern U.S. and outside of the major cities, Horus Heresy gaming has grown at a slow but steady rate over the last few years. I see more armies, I see more Forge World models each year but it is rare to run into another dedicated 30K gamer. Most have a 40K army with some limited ability to run Horus Heresy.

 

What made this incremental growth and adoption of Horus Heresy possible was that it was capable of playing fun games against the wider 40K community. Of course, 40K Marine formations hurt, but I had an absolute blast fielding my Legion army against them. 

 

With this last weekend's Warhammer Fest announcement, I'm staring at my Legion force and allied Mechanicum knights and realizing, I have no one to play now. My local community is all 40K. I can't help but feel that this is a terrible mistake, which will long term effect the growth of the hobby on both sides of the 10,000 years of grim dark divide. 

[Bulwyf]

I agree with you that not having rules for 8th for 30k is a horrible decision. I also have to play my 30k death guard in 40k just to get games.

[Marshal Rohr]

There are Heresy players in Boston, New York, Pittsburg, Philly, Baltimore, and D.C. You should be within two hours a group or another gamer.

[Dantay VI]

It depends if you have the ability and time to travel up to 2 hours each way for a game though!

[Marshal Rohr]

On a Saturday it shouldn't be a problem. If you live in a rural area, you have to have a car anyway.

[Galron]

Yes. Small town games and pick up games are dead. Why play a game that's unsupported that will not have any new players? Who the hell drives 2 hours to play a miniatures game? 45 min is the max I can justify and I usually unless its a tournament or special occasion cannot justify that. Aside from the big metro areas that have enough people to sustain mono-HH,  HH is a dead game until they make 8th ed army lists. Once again this is going to have a major impact on FW profits so I see the conversion happening sooner than later, probably within two fiscal quarters even if its just a stopgap FAQ like the current indexes from GW. 

[TheAlephNull]

There are Heresy players in Boston, New York, Pittsburg, Philly, Baltimore, and D.C. You should be within two hours a group or another gamer.

For the average working adult, I don't think that is a reasonable expectation. It's hard enough to squeeze in enough time for a round locally. 

 

Regional tourney, sure, I would consider a yearly or bi-yearly commute of that length, but what about casual play with friends? What about the family Apoc matches with my brothers? This is a hobby with a massive time commitment already. Expecting rural players to go to a handful of major cities to play is silly. 

 

This also does not address my point. Diverging rule sets will gut already fragile local gaming communities. That's not good. 

[Brofist]

There will be in impact in the immediate future, for sure, but that's expected when you go through such a transition. It's two different game systems now.

[1000 Sons]

For people who just play 30k it is going to be rough. Most of the 30k players I know also play 40k, and right now everyone is pumped for 8th ed and figuring out new lists and tactics so the interest in 30k is really low.

 

There is just no 30k hype at the moment and book 7s unbalanced and terrible rules just make those armies zero fun to play with or against. The 7.5 book has a lot riding on it, if it is done with the same effort as book 7, then I agree that 30k is in trouble.

[Lord Blackwood]

On a Saturday it shouldn't be a problem. If you live in a rural area, you have to have a car anyway.

As someone who lived 26 years in the Bronx ( directly Adjacent to  Manhattan so effectively New York City)   asking someone to drive 2 hours  both ways to play  warhammer is not reasonable. 

 

Especially if there is a game store in your town,  please dont try to downplay someones struggles because  4 hours of travel plus 2 to 4 hours of gametime is reasonable to you , it may not be reasonable to someone else. 

 

As for the OP  , I think that you may need to look into how you can use your legion stuff in 40k for the time being , some of it you can port over , play games of smaller sizes until you can either maybe sway a few people over to the side of 30k  (  sometimes its easier than they  realize to make a list with what they have )   or  maybe convince them to play Age of Darkness rules with that 7th edition codex they still have. 

 

It might be rough , good luck to you sir. 

[RandomMarine]

IMHO a quick and dirty port to 8th would do more damage to HH than staying in 7th till all the legions are released. My reasoning for this is between with all the possible LA and ROW available in HH it'll be a nightmare to balance so I'd rather them take their time rather than rush it and get it right.

We've all read the indexes for 40k by now which are a quick and dirty port of the codexes and they are missing chapter tactics and my 40k ironhands have gone from being a fairly unique and interesting sm army to generic marines without any benefits I might as well just say the are <ultramarine> just to have flavour rather than being bland as :cuss

[MysticTemplar]

IMHO a quick and dirty port to 8th would do more damage to HH than staying in 7th till all the legions are released. My reasoning for this is between with all the possible LA and ROW available in HH it'll be a nightmare to balance so I'd rather them take their time rather than rush it and get it right.

We've all read the indexes for 40k by now which are a quick and dirty port of the codexes and they are missing chapter tactics and my 40k ironhands have gone from being a fairly unique and interesting sm army to generic marines without any benefits I might as well just say the are <ultramarine> just to have flavour rather than being bland as

Out of curiosity, how could making the game more available to play, if in reduced form, hurt it more than cutting a chunk of its player base out entirely? Assuming that the 8th port would have been 'here's enough rules to keep playing while we work on getting everything up to par', which seems the most likely scenario if such a thing had occurred.

[Marshal Rohr]

 

 

On a Saturday it shouldn't be a problem. If you live in a rural area, you have to have a car anyway.

As someone who lived 26 years in the Bronx ( directly Adjacent to Manhattan so effectively New York City) asking someone to drive 2 hours both ways to play warhammer is not reasonable.

 

Especially if there is a game store in your town, please dont try to downplay someones struggles because 4 hours of travel plus 2 to 4 hours of gametime is reasonable to you , it may not be reasonable to someone else.

 

As for the OP , I think that you may need to look into how you can use your legion stuff in 40k for the time being , some of it you can port over , play games of smaller sizes until you can either maybe sway a few people over to the side of 30k ( sometimes its easier than they realize to make a list with what they have ) or maybe convince them to play Age of Darkness rules with that 7th edition codex they still have.

 

It might be rough , good luck to you sir.

I had to drive from a rural area to urban area just to get a game for years. Often taking an hour or two there and back. Im not suggesting anything I haven't had to do myself.

[Bloody Legionnaire]

IMHO a quick and dirty port to 8th would do more damage to HH than staying in 7th till all the legions are released. My reasoning for this is between with all the possible LA and ROW available in HH it'll be a nightmare to balance so I'd rather them take their time rather than rush it and get it right.

We've all read the indexes for 40k by now which are a quick and dirty port of the codexes and they are missing chapter tactics and my 40k ironhands have gone from being a fairly unique and interesting sm army to generic marines without any benefits I might as well just say the are <ultramarine> just to have flavour rather than being bland as

Out of curiosity, how could making the game more available to play, if in reduced form, hurt it more than cutting a chunk of its player base out entirely? Assuming that the 8th port would have been 'here's enough rules to keep playing while we work on getting everything up to par', which seems the most likely scenario if such a thing had occurred.

Because it's in reduced form... A reduced form is something the base of 30k does not want..

[Marshal Rohr]

This is also purely temporary. 8th Edition will come to the heresy sooner rather than later, and once it does small town play can resume. You might have to take a year off gaming, which sounds like a lot, but as a rural gamer, I'm intimately familiar with how long people go without a game. You might have to drive farther until next spring. Its not a permanent situation. 

[Lord Blackwood]

 

I had to drive from a rural area to urban area just to get a game for years. Often taking an hour or two there and back. Im not suggesting anything I haven't had to do myself.

 

This still does not make it reasonable for SOMEONEELSE  situation.  It could very well just not be an option for him. 

 

I did not like taking the 2 into Manhattan to go to the village to hit up GW  I preferred driving 30min to mamaronek to hit up  Modern Myths. I picked what was right for me , just like anyone else. 

 

The opening poster has expressed concerns about his LOCAL  store , and  telling him to just go ahead and drive off somewhere else is a flippant way to tell him to fix his problem. 

[Marshal Rohr]

I had to drive from a rural area to urban area just to get a game for years. Often taking an hour or two there and back. Im not suggesting anything I haven't had to do myself.

This still does not make it reasonable for SOMEONEELSE situation. It could very well just not be an option for him.

I did not like taking the 2 into Manhattan to go to the village to hit up GW I preferred driving 30min to mamaronek to hit up Modern Myths. I picked what was right for me , just like anyone else.

The opening poster has expressed concerns about his LOCAL store , and telling him to just go ahead and drive off somewhere else is a flippant way to tell him to fix his problem.

I'm sorry you feel that way. There is nothing to be done for his local scene until 8th. Would you prefer I just say, 'you're -ed'. That is a real unproductive answer, not saying you might have to branch out for a game for six to eighteen months.

Actually, Vassal has resurfaced again in the darker corners of the web, so maybe he could try vassal for a few months. Thats how I made it through the first years of college with no other gamers.

[Lord Blackwood]

You could attempt to give him some ideas to ensure he gets games as I did in my initial response to the topic. 
Then again selective reading is selective. 

[Marshal Rohr]

 

 

Actually, Vassal has resurfaced again in the darker corners of the web, so maybe he could try vassal for a few months. Thats how I made it through the first years of college with no other gamers.

[Lord Blackwood]

indeed ,it would be glorious if i could SEE edits before they were posted 

[MysticTemplar]

IMHO a quick and dirty port to 8th would do more damage to HH than staying in 7th till all the legions are released. My reasoning for this is between with all the possible LA and ROW available in HH it'll be a nightmare to balance so I'd rather them take their time rather than rush it and get it right.

We've all read the indexes for 40k by now which are a quick and dirty port of the codexes and they are missing chapter tactics and my 40k ironhands have gone from being a fairly unique and interesting sm army to generic marines without any benefits I might as well just say the are <ultramarine> just to have flavour rather than being bland as

Out of curiosity, how could making the game more available to play, if in reduced form, hurt it more than cutting a chunk of its player base out entirely? Assuming that the 8th port would have been 'here's enough rules to keep playing while we work on getting everything up to par', which seems the most likely scenario if such a thing had occurred.

Because it's in reduced form... A reduced form is something the base of 30k does not want..

As opposed to what we got instead (IE: Nothing)? I dunno. I would happily have taken an Index: Horus Heresy instead, and I suspect I'm not alone.

Impossible to truly know what the base wants without a broader net for information, after all.

[Space Truckin]

i guess i'm in the minority because this is got me more interested in 30k and optimistic what improvements  7.5 can bring to the table.  

 

But for those wanting to play 8th I understand the frustration.  

Is homebrew an option?  

I mean you are fighting a 30k army list vs a 40k list there is going to be some compromises right?

[Gorgoff]

IMHO a quick and dirty port to 8th would do more damage to HH than staying in 7th till all the legions are released. My reasoning for this is between with all the possible LA and ROW available in HH it'll be a nightmare to balance so I'd rather them take their time rather than rush it and get it right.

We've all read the indexes for 40k by now which are a quick and dirty port of the codexes and they are missing chapter tactics and my 40k ironhands have gone from being a fairly unique and interesting sm army to generic marines without any benefits I might as well just say the are <ultramarine> just to have flavour rather than being bland as

Out of curiosity, how could making the game more available to play, if in reduced form, hurt it more than cutting a chunk of its player base out entirely? Assuming that the 8th port would have been 'here's enough rules to keep playing while we work on getting everything up to par', which seems the most likely scenario if such a thing had occurred.

Because it's in reduced form... A reduced form is something the base of 30k does not want..

As opposed to what we got instead (IE: Nothing)? I dunno. I would happily have taken an Index: Horus Heresy instead, and I suspect I'm not alone.

Impossible to truly know what the base wants without a broader net for information, after all.

I can obviously only speak for myself but in our gaming group (northern germany), none of the 8 HH players really wanted a transition to the 8th. Since it seems to be a nice little game we wouldn't complain though. In fact everyone was concentrated on the good sides of the new edition.

But then warhammer fest came and we all where amazed that FW gonna give us our own edition.

Now we wait how that will turn out and what kind of streamlining we'll see.

And as far my surrounding and what other german players write on the interwebs we are not alone.

I totally understand that if you live in a small town and only have 40k players around you that it is a huge disappointmend for you, but...

Well, I don't know how to say that without making a douche out of me nur I'll try anyway.

30k never was supposed to be played against 40k.

Yes, you could do just that, and of course it happened around here regulary. I myself played lots of games against Eldar or Imperial Fist.

And it was great fun, but in my heart of hearts I knew that that wasn't how it is meant to be played. We all do use the core rulebook, but that's about it.

We don't have formations, we have a different army organisation chart and our list are build with our missions in mind.

In addition to that every page of our "codex" oozes the narrative around the big bang between Horus and the Emprah. So, no matter how much I feel with all the brothers out there who stand alone, I cannot help but be very happy about that decision. I don't now how the last two years went in other countries but in germany many of the new players who came after the price barrier vanished thanks to the awesome new boxes where... let's just say they where not very interested in the narrative. ;)

For them the HH where just a couple of new codices for 40k. Another toy to throw at your opponent. Vanilla lists turned up in the net and minmaxing was on the rise. All in all it seemed that lots of the bad stuff which made me play HH and sell my 40k miniatures in the first place now became a thing in 30k.

That won't happen anymore. At least for a long time.

Again, don't get me wrong. I totally feel you brothers and hope that some of you find joy in playing their legions with the 40k codex SM. The new edition could be great fun and all the fw vehicles are in. So you only loose special characters and specials rules for Deathshrouds and the like.

[Cornelias]

I'm assuming you have 40k players near you? Add 1000 pts of a different legion to your collection and get some of those 40k players playing a few small scale/zone mortalis games. Make them fun and enjoyable rather than competitive and hopefully convert a few players over to HH.

 

This is what i did over a year ago and we now have a pretty stable group of guys, at worst you've given youself a decent modelling project that you can keep or ebay.

 

On a personal note i'd prefer they released 7/7.5 rules for remaining missing legions over making a rushed switch to 8th, then we have options and they have they time required to make the switch properly ( remember Gw have been working on this for 2 years, FW have not.....).

[Bulwyf]

There are Heresy players in Boston, New York, Pittsburg, Philly, Baltimore, and D.C. You should be within two hours a group or another gamer.

 

Is this sarcasm? It has to be. You realize how large the United States are? I live in Columbus, Ga which is far more than two hours to any of the cities you mentioned. And I am even on the same coast you reference.

 

I do not think it is unreasonable for 30k to have some kind of rules to adapt to 8th in order to play against 40k armies. My 30k army is going to gather dust until FW/GW releases some kind of rules update to address this.