Will 8th Edition kill small town Horus Heresy?

[Marshal Rohr]

 

Its silly to suggest FW sales will tank over this, more players used 30K for 30K, than they did to cross streams and play against 40K.

 

There's pressures past that, though.

 

In addition to 30k players playing against 40k players, there was a thread over at Dakka that had a poll on what edition people wanted to go forward in with regards to HH - and 8th was winning by a significant margin (~75%).  Granted, Dakka forum goers aren't a true cross section of the community, but then neither are B&Cers - forums inherently skew to the part of your population willing to argue about silly things on forums, after all, which tend to be the most enfranchised players.  But it seems like there's likely to be attrition in favor of 40k from at least part of the populace who wanted to go ahead with 8th until such a thing materializes for 30k.

 

Also - do you have a source for your claim?  I'm curious.  (I'm also curious as to how people got into 30k, with regards to new player acquisition.  I got into it initially via 40k - I was looking for something new to play against my friends, and went 'Oh, this Alpha Legion thing looks neat.  I should try that.'  So I did.  But it's a path that won't exist any more...)

 

 

The internet community for any hobby is made up of people who can't engage the way they want with other hobbyists offline. Its true for politics, art, music, computer games, etc. 

[Gorgoff]

I got into it from 40k back when Betrayal came out. I loved the army list and that it wasn't one build beats all. That and I wanted a Night Lord legion that was truer to its routes and not infected with chaos like its portrayed currently. That and drop pods.

 

That's almost to the latter why I started playing a IVth Legion in 30k. Even the Drop Pod part. :D

Before that I played CSM for a very long time and was fed up with GW giving a :cuss about my army. I just wanted to play my legion how it should feel.

GW didn't make that possible so I sold my stuff and bought my Iron Warriors starter kit.

A buddy of mine did that as well and for a long time we where the only HH players in our area. It never got boring though and over some time more and more players joined and now it's about 50/50 ratio between 40k and 30k in our group.

I might add that HH tend to be played by long time players who go full retard about the game. ;)

40k seems to be the home for casual players and newbies. In my very humble oppinion that is why it is very clever of FW making HH an independend game. People who go nuts about a game who plays a lot and spending a lot of time in reading the stories etc will gravitade towords the HH because these are the players who don't think about costs. They have a vision of their army and by miniatures accordingly. And if a Mastodon is part of that vision then a Mastodon it is.

That are the best customers for a small company like FW.

[Aramis K]

I think a homebrew 30k basic legion list for 8th will emerge pretty quickly, most of the stats and weapons are already there in different combos, and many of the special rules can be easily translated based on similar examples in the Index. Just don't get greedy.

 

Getting the power level right will be pretty easy if not proper points.

 

I'd like to try this anyway because I think it'll make pickup games easier, and I say that from London which isn't short of players.

[Lord Marshal]

Short term? Yeah, it's probably going to be riddled with bullets and left in a coma.

 

Buuut, in a while after all of the buzz of 8th has died off, Forge World can leap out of the blue, waving around a big shiny book and go "Look! Horus Heresy with its own rule system and balance? You still love us right?" And then Games Workshop - if they have any sense, but we know they rarely do - will come along and go, "What a coincidence! We're also releasing a new Horus Heresy plastic boxset! Now you're bored of Primaines take a trip down a size!". Or something.

 

I think as well, the absurd amount of hype surrounding 8th is going to do it some harm as well. When it turns out the game isn't perfectly balanced, that there's still obnoxious :cuss lists and broken, bloated nonsense many people will come off their honeymoons and look back at Horus Heresy in its 7th Edition mankinis with Rose-Tinted Glasses and go "Hmm..."

[Ranwulf]

I'm pretty sure the 30K community survived before Battle of Calth, and other gateways for Horus Heresy. I think it can keep going on, specially for those that don't really enjoy the 8th edition rules.

 

Ran

[Brofist]

This is also purely temporary. 8th Edition will come to the heresy sooner rather than later, and once it does small town play can resume. You might have to take a year off gaming, which sounds like a lot, but as a rural gamer, I'm intimately familiar with how long people go without a game. You might have to drive farther until next spring. Its not a permanent situation.

I see people keep saying this, but it's entirely speculation. More likely they will keep the games separate where 30k is a premium offering using it's own rules. This is a pretty normal marketing practice and as everyone can see, GW is getting with the times.

[noigrim]

Is this true?

[Scribe]

I'm 99% sure they said that it was to be upgraded in time.

 

If they just finished Angelus or something they won't release 8th rules, and then sell Angelus with 7th, for example.

[Gorgoff]

I'm 99% sure they said that it was to be upgraded in time.

 

If they just finished Angelus or something they won't release 8th rules, and then sell Angelus with 7th, for example.

What they said was:

 

The 8th edition rules didn't give us the depth to have differences between all 18 Legions, whereas a streamlined 7th edition does allow this.

 

So, no it won't get transitioned to the 8th.

That's wishlisting at this point.

[noigrim]

Not buting more FW until they pass into 8th then

[Ranwulf]

Arent most of their kits actually useful in 8th edition? They are updating those, its just 30K that wont because of how difficult is adapting the Legion rules.

 

Ran

[MysticTemplar]

Arent most of their kits actually useful in 8th edition? They are updating those, its just 30K that wont because of how difficult is adapting the Legion rules.

 

Ran

Primarchs, any thing specific to a single Legion, the Legio Custodes and Sisters of Silence ranges... There's a number of things.

 

And something to keep in mind - Horus Heresy has never existed with out a gateway - that gateway beimg regular 40k. And the "premium offering" idea... Are there any other gaming companies that require an investment into their game that do this? Because for something like miniature wargaming or a trading card game you need to be able to maintain critical mass, which can be hard to get if you have to pull multiple people in at once.

[noigrim]

Time to sell the two primarchs I guess, I can always use the primaris lightning for the guard

[Marshal Rohr]

It's not speculation 8th will come to the Heresy. That's a cold hard fact.

[Ranwulf]

I'm going to keep this to a last answer since the last thread I was with the same topic derailed and got into a insult fest:

 

Play what you want. Sell things if you are unhappy. If Forgeworld is doing a clusterf- they will notice in the sales, if however these sales stay in a acceptable margin for them, I assume they will stay with this model because as much sales are important, they still care about making a good product, and for them, 8th edition would make it quite difficult for it. Maybe they will figure it out ; maybe 9th edition will be closer to how they can make their legion rules; maybe they will finally look into the 8th and say "Hey, that works!", but at this point in time, specially with the death of Alan Bligh, the mastermind behind the 30K game, I find it acceptable that Forgeworld makes its own choices.

 

Ran

[noigrim]

If they wanted to throw me out of heresy gaming they have suceeded!

[Brofist]

It's not speculation 8th will come to the Heresy. That's a cold hard fact.

30k is now it's own game on a tailored version of 7th and will be so for the indefinite future.

 

Anything beyond this is reading into what you hope will happen. This goes both ways, for sure, but claiming an 8th transition is coming is just creating a rumor and getting people's hopes up. Especially when, as of right now, the exact opposite is happening.

[Dantay VI]

Can someone point me to where fw said 8th doesnt give enough depth for 18 legions please?

 

Tbh its a piece of cake. Generics upgrade the same as space marines in 8th.

 

Legion specific units get their own special rules like wulfen wolf guard sanguinary guard etc do in 40k.

 

Lack of xenos factions makes it easier to work with.

 

My understanding from info coming out of the weekender is that HH is not going to 8th yet but it will do so in time.

 

Btw has anyone actually emailed fw for clarification?

[A D-B]

I'm 99% sure they said that it was to be upgraded in time.

 

I tried to say this in the last thread, dude. They had said that, yes. And then Alan died. I tried not being quite so blunt, but that has changed everything. Now? Who freaking knows. I know what Alan was going to do, and that it was very much his decision to make, but that's meaningless now. 

[Marshal Rohr]

Disregard

[Gorgoff]

Can someone point me to where fw said 8th doesnt give enough depth for 18 legions please?

 

They said it in the seminar.

 

And I guess it is Not a piece of cake to convert the rules for the 8th.

First of all you need to make special rules for 18 legions. A lot of them like Night Lords, Emperor's Children or Salamanders do not have any rule which is also present in the 8th.

There are no fear test, no sweeping advance or stuff like that. So you have to make new rules.

For every unit in the game!

Last time I checked there where more then 60 units in the red book so that is quite a task.

Depending on what kind of rules you want for your legion you have to adjust the point costs of units. In addition to that you have to make fitting points for all the unique HH units and weapons. And did I meantioned Rite of Wars?

You have to re-do they as well.

And in the end you only get house rules which may or may not be accepted by other groups then your own.

Wouldn"'t it be a lot easier to keep playing the 7th until FW releases the AoD Core Rules?

And by the way. There are quite some of you who have stated that your gaming group won't play with you anymore because HH won't get 8th rules.

I have to ask what kind of horrible person refuses to play a game with his friend and forces him to buy a new army just because of a new edition?

That is absolutely horrific.

They know the rules and have their books, so why do they do that? I can Not understand that.

Not.

At.

All.

[A D-B]

 

Can someone point me to where fw said 8th doesnt give enough depth for 18 legions please?

They said it in the seminar.

 

I guarantee you that was either a joke, something being taken out of context, or a good-humoured way of making being backed into a corner sound like a choice. I imagine it's like when Tony calls HH players "discerning gamers" - it's a cute in-joke, he's not really saying they're better than the 40K peasants.

[lokkorex]

It would be hilarious if and when hh gets 8th editonified, night lords cause more heart attacks in the morale phase.

 

Brother jimmy of the if: "gah! Nigh lords!"

Brother slien of the nl: "oogabooga!"

Brother jimmy: dead

[Gorgoff]

 

 

 

Can someone point me to where fw said 8th doesnt give enough depth for 18 legions please?

They said it in the seminar.

I guarantee you that was either a joke, something being taken out of context, or a good-humoured way of making being backed into a corner sound like a choice. I imagine it's like when Tony calls HH players "discerning gamers" - it's a cute in-joke, he's not really saying they're better than the 40K peasants.

The nice way to say "Shut up, fool"? ;)

I hope not.

If I buy the new HH rulebook and three month later they change it again I gonna freak out.

 

Edit:

Don't get me wrong. I am totally cool with the 8th. Today I watched the first batrep and I have to say that it look schwifty, but if they make the transition they shouldn't make me dream about a perfect HH edition. ;)

[Cornelias]

 

 

 

 

There are Heresy players in Boston, New York, Pittsburg, Philly, Baltimore, and D.C. You should be within two hours a group or another gamer.

Is this sarcasm? It has to be. You realize how large the United States are? I live in Columbus, Ga which is far more than two hours to any of the cities you mentioned. And I am even on the same coast you reference.

 

I do not think it is unreasonable for 30k to have some kind of rules to adapt to 8th in order to play against 40k armies. My 30k army is going to gather dust until FW/GW releases some kind of rules update to address this.

30k was never intended to mix with 40k, it just used the same base ruleset.

That is not true. The first book FAQ explicitly states you can play 30k armies with 40k armies.

Read that quote in full from the FAQ.