Will 8th Edition kill small town Horus Heresy?

[Marshal Rohr]

 

 

Guys, when I lived in Oman I didn't demand Games Workshop start a 40k outreach into the market there just so I could get a game. Similarly, if you live in a rural area that comes with some acknowledgement everything from internet, to fish, to non-Walmart goods will be more difficult to come by.

Oi, I don't even know where to begin here....

 

I don't recall demanding anything of GW/FW. I'm addressing the very real problem that a linked gaming system is now diverging and that this will likely have a negative impact on the community. 30K needs to grow and the compatibility helped that to happen. I also get we lost Alan, so patience is in order. I am merely raising a valid concern.

 

Sure, 40K support is sparse in Oman, but that's a very minor market. The U.S. and Canada on the other hand, yes, they should factor heavily into GW/FW/BL's marketing strategy and metropolitan centers make up only a portion of the customer base here.

 

As for your assumptions about rural living, non sequitur?

Dude, I'm from :cuss Appalachia. That's not just rural. It's rural AND mountains. I know what I'm talking about and have been through all this, for years. Middle America, especially midwestern rural areas might as well be Oman to a business based in the U.K. New York, Atlanta, LA are markets. Montana has one congressional district. One. That's how few people live there. Even my redneck :cuss comes from a place with more than one.

 

My point is, even normal 40k is difficult in rural areas. It's part of the nature of any hobby.

[TheAlephNull]

Guys, when I lived in Oman I didn't demand Games Workshop start a 40k outreach into the market there just so I could get a game. Similarly, if you live in a rural area that comes with some acknowledgement everything from internet, to fish, to non-Walmart goods will be more difficult to come by.

Oi, I don't even know where to begin here....

I don't recall demanding anything of GW/FW. I'm addressing the very real problem that a linked gaming system is now diverging and that this will likely have a negative impact on the community. 30K needs to grow and the compatibility helped that to happen. I also get we lost Alan, so patience is in order. I am merely raising a valid concern.

Sure, 40K support is sparse in Oman, but that's a very minor market. The U.S. and Canada on the other hand, yes, they should factor heavily into GW/FW/BL's marketing strategy and metropolitan centers make up only a portion of the customer base here.

As for your assumptions about rural living, non sequitur?

Dude, I'm from Appalachia. That's not just rural. It's rural AND mountains. I know what I'm talking about and have been through all this, for years. Middle America, especially midwestern rural areas might as well be Oman to a business based in the U.K. New York, Atlanta, LA are markets. Montana has one congressional district. One. That's how few people live there. Even my redneck comes from a place with more than one.

My point is, even normal 40k is difficult in rural areas. It's part of the nature of any hobby.

That just highlights my original question, why make the hobby more difficult to play when the player base is small? Maybe there is a very valid reason that FW will divulge when things calm down, but it should still be considered.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Okay we all know... no need to keep rehashing it again and again .

[Fire Golem]

Okay we all know... no need to keep rehashing it again and again .

You don't have to read the thread.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

How about just post +1 for 7th and -1 for 8th ?

[Gorgoff]

 

 

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Can someone point me to where fw said 8th doesnt give enough depth for 18 legions please?

They said it in the seminar.

I guarantee you that was either a joke, something being taken out of context, or a good-humoured way of making being backed into a corner sound like a choice. I imagine it's like when Tony calls HH players "discerning gamers" - it's a cute in-joke, he's not really saying they're better than the 40K peasants.

Were you there, out of interest? Or are you just reading a sentiment into the statement that doesn't need to be there - 8th edition streamlines a lot of things that the Legion rules depend on, saying 8th then doesn't have enough depth to make those Legion rules distinct from each other easily is a judgement of the rules, not the players; I read it as a simple statement of fact, not a value judgement. It seems like it'd be a massive pain in the backside and a lot of effort to come up with Legion rules after a lot of stuff like psychic powers and morale have been pretty thoroughly gutted.

Oh, totally. I'm not saying it's not a lot of effort. Of course it's a lot of effort. But the conversion to 8th would add Legion-specific rules and make them all different, so your point doesn't hold water. The conversion to 8th would involve all of that individuality and distinctiveness between Legions being put into their rules.

 

Tony always makes those kinds of jokes, like when he calls HH players "the more discerning gamers" with a wry smile. He's a charismatic and funny guy. But you're right, I won't speak for him or assume. And of course FW had discussions on whether to change at all. (It'd be mad not to discuss it!) But, sticking to facts, I know what Alan's intentions were - and without going into real detail, I know "8th doesn't give enough depth for the Legions" is simply not something he thought, and didn't factor into his plans. So it seems infinitely more likely that was a joke or something taken out of context by one of the audience with a preference in it staying as 7th edition to suit their tastes - as witnessed even in this thread.

 

And I'll level with you. I've already had one jackal online insisting that "Alan would have preferred the HH as 7th". Not only was that vile, it's the kind of ghoulish nonsense I'd like to head off at the pass here. What Alan was going to do sadly doesn't matter any more, and Forge World will think and do vastly different things in his absence, I'm sure. But that quote is already doing the rounds online as yet another shot in the "HH is for the mature gamers and 40K is for kids" war that some people are desperate for to be true. If there's any sentiment being attributed to the quote, it's certainly not exclusively by me, and I'm not on the bad guys' side, so to speak.

Couldn't you just go there, ask the FW dudes and tell us afterwards?

That would solve the problem.

Come on.

Do it.

Do it.

Do it.

[Slips]

NDA's are a thing dude. Even if he did know (and he probably knows a little bit), he wouldnt be able to tell us.

 

 

How about just post +1 for 7th and -1 for 8th ?

And that would promote discussion how?

 

Remember:

B&C Mission Statement

 

The Bolter & Chainsword promotes constructive discussion about all aspects of the Warhammer 40,000 hobby[...]

[Zeratil]

I totally get the quality of the Horus Heresy play style as it currently exists, and the massive financial investment that people have made into the rule books, but am I only one that worries that the divergence of 30K and 40K is going to be very detrimental for the the health of the hobby community?

 

 

  It's certainly split our group in half and we're not even in a rural community, just a tight knit group of friend who like to play with tiny space mans. We've got different incomes and priorities so we're split pretty much 50/50 between people with Heresy armies and people with just 40k. We've spent the last several years playing together and had some awesome campaigns, even if Sisters of Battle were fighting to the death against Perturabo....

 

 It's not all doom and gloom, the new FW books look to convert enough stuff so that the people with only Heresy armies can have a decent go of playing Adeptus Astartes or Heretic Astartes, but it's decidedly on the 'well we'd rather play than not play' end of things. The armies and styles are different and there's still plenty of stuff like Primarchs we'l either have to convert to 8th ourselves and test or just not use. Pretty much all our 40k players are super excited for 8th, and having seen the rules I think it will be a better system than 7th once it's found its footing and gotten some more faction-related depth from codex releases. More than one has admitted he doesn't see himself going back to 7th (he plays Nids, I find it hard to blame him!) For us this was pretty much the worst outcome given that it doesn't sound like FW are going to do much more than re-publish the 7th ed. rules with the AoD rules we all know added in.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

 

 

 

 

NDA's are a thing dude. Even if he did know (and he probably knows a little bit), he wouldnt be able to tell us.

 

 

How about just post +1 for 7th and -1 for 8th ?

And that would promote discussion how?

 

Remember:

B&C Mission Statement

 

 

The Bolter & Chainsword promotes constructive discussion about all aspects of the Warhammer 40,000 hobby[...]

 

 

This is a negative thread in my opinion. FW did not say why they chose to stick with the current edition for the time being but I feel certain they did so for a good reason. Sometimes you cannot immediately have what you want. It is not the end of the world in terms of HH by any means. I can say that the vast majority of players I personally know are okay with the state of the game... it is mostly only online I see some complaints. Do you think it is a valid point that 30k and 40k won't be compatible in terms of playing games ?

 

Let's do the 'what if' game... what if FW were to develop a custom rule set with all the best elements of 8th edition plus designed specifically for 30k ? Wouldn't that be awesome assuming they knocked it out the ball park ? The thing is we really don't know why they chose to stick with 7th edition for the time being but it must be for a good reason. Knocking the company is not constructive .

[Unknown Legionnaire]

Agree, absolutely.

 

I've been eyeing this thread very carefully from the beginning. It could've been a wonderful thread about finding people to play with and to collect ideas how to establish more of a Heresy feeling and / or community.

 

Instead this has almost turned into the same absurd form of 7th vs. 8th bashing like the last thread that was (rightfully) locked.

 

For now (now being the important part here), the Heresy will stick to 7th, or 7.5 or whatever we wanna call it. 

 

It will sure be transplanted into the 8th edition in the future.

 

And I'm not sad about this approach at all. It gives the writers at FW the opportunity to see and observe how 8th will evolve before they bring the Heresy into it.

 

Rushing headlong into things has never proven fruitful.

 

And then, heeeeey, we can all choose which set of rules we'd like to play with in private circles. 

 

And to get back to the issue of finding gaming buddies ... how 'bout we implement a Horus Heresy player locator ?

 

Peace out ... and war eternal !

[A D-B]

 

And I'm not sad about this approach at all. It gives the writers at FW the opportunity to see and observe how 8th will evolve before they bring the Heresy into it.

 

Rushing headlong into things has never proven fruitful.

 

I keep seeing this as the main argument. But no one is arguing to rush it. No one is arguing to do it sooner at the cost of quality. No one. Ever. Anywhere. 

 

There are shades of grey between "RIGHT NOW!" and "...in several years or whatever."

 

It was likely going to shift to 8th way, way sooner than all of these "Oh, it needs a lot of time..." posts realise. Now, obviously, it's not. Needing time to make it good is obvious; it doesn't need to be posted as a defence. No one is arguing for it to be rushed. We're all on the same side on that score.

 

Let me clarify that, before I bow out of this thread from frustration. I don't know, or care, what Forge World will do now. And what Alan was going to do doesn't matter any more. Forge World can't implement their previous plans without him, on the time scale that was on the cards before. (If at all.) But read between the lines. Look at when the "Actually, we'll stick with 7th for the indeterminate future..." statements started to come out. Because they changed in tone on a certain day. You know? 

 

No one is arguing that it should be rushed. People are, however, saying that it's a shame that the conversion to 8th is, at best, delayed, and pointing out it may not be because 7th is wicked-awesome or better for the Heresy, which is what certain comments are claiming.

[Iron Hands Fanatic]

I have to admit, as someone who has been designing units & writing new rules within the 7th edition Age of Darkness system, one thing that really excited my about the potential transition to 8th (before this news was revealed) was the versatility of the new ruleset, with a single consistent profile, no stat caps and the degrading damage system.

 

There are a whole host of HH units that straddled the line between MCs, Infantry & Vehicles, and having to push against the constraints of these very prescriptive unit types often became tricky. Additionally, the way that abilities function in a much more streamlined system mean that rather than creating a new rule for a unit, then having to clarify how it interacts with half a dozen other systems and rules as is sometimes necessary in the current system is far, far easier. It's "this unit can do this thing" as opposed to "in this scenario, this unit can do this thing rather than this thing, with the proviso that it doesn't do this, and this effect isn't in place".

 

I absolutely love creating homebrew units in the Heresy setting, but it becomes increasingly difficult to write rules the further you stray from pre-existing archetypes - with a single, consistent statblock without a limited range of values, creating a spectrum of units that don't have to fit into specific boxes will become much much easier.

 

Tl;dr: When I saw 8th for the first time, my initial response was that it would make it easier for the Heresy system's unique range of units, not harder - once the huge initial challenge of transferring and balancing all the existing content is overcome however (considering the main studio is supposed to have been working on 8th for the past 2-3 years).

[Yodhrin]

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Can someone point me to where fw said 8th doesnt give enough depth for 18 legions please?

They said it in the seminar.

 

I guarantee you that was either a joke, something being taken out of context, or a good-humoured way of making being backed into a corner sound like a choice. I imagine it's like when Tony calls HH players "discerning gamers" - it's a cute in-joke, he's not really saying they're better than the 40K peasants.

 

Were you there, out of interest? Or are you just reading a sentiment into the statement that doesn't need to be there - 8th edition streamlines a lot of things that the Legion rules depend on, saying 8th then doesn't have enough depth to make those Legion rules distinct from each other easily is a judgement of the rules, not the players; I read it as a simple statement of fact, not a value judgement. It seems like it'd be a massive pain in the backside and a lot of effort to come up with Legion rules after a lot of stuff like psychic powers and morale have been pretty thoroughly gutted.

 

Oh, totally. I'm not saying it's not a lot of effort. Of course it's a lot of effort. But the conversion to 8th would add Legion-specific rules and make them all different, so your point doesn't hold water. The conversion to 8th would involve all of that individuality and distinctiveness between Legions being put into their rules.

 

Tony always makes those kinds of jokes, like when he calls HH players "the more discerning gamers" with a wry smile. He's a charismatic and funny guy. But you're right, I won't speak for him or assume. And of course FW had discussions on whether to change at all. (It'd be mad not to discuss it!) But, sticking to facts, I know what Alan's intentions were - and without going into real detail, I know "8th doesn't give enough depth for the Legions" is simply not something he thought, and didn't factor into his plans. So it seems infinitely more likely that was a joke or something taken out of context by one of the audience with a preference in it staying as 7th edition to suit their tastes - as witnessed even in this thread.

 

And I'll level with you. I've already had one jackal online insisting that "Alan would have preferred the HH as 7th". Not only was that vile, it's the kind of ghoulish nonsense I'd like to head off at the pass here. What Alan was going to do sadly doesn't matter any more, and Forge World will think and do vastly different things in his absence, I'm sure. But that quote is already doing the rounds online as yet another shot in the "HH is for the mature gamers and 40K is for kids" war that some people are desperate for to be true. If there's any sentiment being attributed to the quote, it's certainly not exclusively by me, and I'm not on the bad guys' side, so to speak.

 

 

​I certainly wouldn't claim to know Alan's thinking, as a Gaming Pleb all I have to go on are third-hand reports of these events. I can only say I don't think rendering the Legions in 8th would be all that easy - no doubt it could be done and will be eventually, but it would require more than just a wee bit of rule flavour text, you'd have to bolt a functional morale system and a more layered psyk system back on to the core rules engine for a start or else you'd end up with Thousand Sons "masters of sorcery" stuck spamming Smite because of the Rule of 1 or whatever it's called and Night Lords who's grand manipulation of their opponents' psyche would amount to a modifier to how many models you lose to Battleshock. And then of course redo the rules for all the armies themselves, a fairly herculean task that could throw the whole game out of whack given I doubt FW would get to run the same amount of playtesting as was ostensibly done for 8th 40K.

​

​I quite like the sound of 8th 40K, the few oversimplified aspects and the questionable new fluff aside, and the idea of a version of "Advanced 8th Ed" tweaked for the Heresy in the same way 6th/7th was is appealing, but getting us almost all the way to Terra and then subjecting folk to even more delays while the transition happens, and leaving those who don't care for 8th or just want a complete collection in 7th so they have the option to use either stuck with an incomplete ruleset doesn't sound great to me. So I'm glad that they're releasing a 7th-based AoD rulebook, and I really really hope they're not going to wait until a lot of folk have bought that and adjusted to the idea of carrying on with 7th and then pull the rug out from under us with a pre-Terra transition to 8th.

[Withershadow]

I didn't realize that divide was a war.  I thought it was a result of observation.

[Ishagu]

I'll drop by and say that the division is certainly damaging to the HH focused gamer and potentially a lot of communities.

 

Like it or not 8th edition is very, very exciting. Everyone is talking about, almost everyone is positive about it. GW are incredibly confident in their new product and the popularity is rising.

There is absolutely no way that people are going to take up the HH in the same numbers now as they did prior to the announcement of 8th. The growth has slowed, it's actually frozen in my area.

It was also common to have 30k armies fight 40k armies on a regular basis, that's no longer possible so potential games and opponents are reduced.

 

Now I understand why FW are doing this, they aren't ready, etc.

The Index books however, feature most of the Heresy units so I can't imagine it would be too difficult to adjust the rest.

 

We shall wait and see...

In the meantime I'll still be able to get a HH game in here and there, but there isn't as much of a buzz around it.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

How can you prove anything you have said ? Based on my experience the vast majority of people I actually know who play HH are okay with 7th edition and even on the internet those clamoring for conversion do not outweigh those who don't. Based on what we have heard it is going to take awhile just might as well accept that now .

[A D-B]

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​​I certainly wouldn't claim to know Alan's thinking, as a Gaming Pleb all I have to go on are third-hand reports of these events. I can only say I don't think rendering the Legions in 8th would be all that easy - no doubt it could be done and will be eventually, but it would require more than just a wee bit of rule flavour text, you'd have to bolt a functional morale system and a more layered psyk system back on to the core rules engine for a start or else you'd end up with Thousand Sons "masters of sorcery" stuck spamming Smite because of the Rule of 1 or whatever it's called and Night Lords who's grand manipulation of their opponents' psyche would amount to a modifier to how many models you lose to Battleshock. And then of course redo the rules for all the armies themselves, a fairly herculean task that could throw the whole game out of whack given I doubt FW would get to run the same amount of playtesting as was ostensibly done for 8th 40K.

​

​I quite like the sound of 8th 40K, the few oversimplified aspects and the questionable new fluff aside, and the idea of a version of "Advanced 8th Ed" tweaked for the Heresy in the same way 6th/7th was is appealing, but getting us almost all the way to Terra and then subjecting folk to even more delays while the transition happens, and leaving those who don't care for 8th or just want a complete collection in 7th so they have the option to use either stuck with an incomplete ruleset doesn't sound great to me. So I'm glad that they're releasing a 7th-based AoD rulebook, and I really really hope they're not going to wait until a lot of folk have bought that and adjusted to the idea of carrying on with 7th and then pull the rug out from under us with a pre-Terra transition to 8th.

 

"Alan died. Without breaking the spirit of my NDA and still giving you as much context as I can, that has changed everything, which you can see from the tone and detail of the press releases. You can assume from my posts I hope, that the change to 8th was intended to be fairly swift, and now - at best - is delayed for an indeterminate time."

 

"Yes, but it's very hard to convert."

 

"Uh, yeah. That's what I... what I said. That's why they're not doing it right now, because the guy who was going to do it--"

 

"It's really hard to convert, though."

 

"I'm not saying it's easy. I mean, I've literally said several times that it was hard and--"

 

"Here are the reasons it's hard to convert."

 

 

That's what this conversation feels like at times. I suspect I'm not alone in that. And, joking aside, I'm not arguing with people's preferences for editions. But I think some folks are taking "The intention wasn't to stick with 7th, it was to change over to 8th relatively soon - but now, who knows?" as some kind of attack or judgement call, when all it is is interesting context.

[Sol_Invictus]

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​​I certainly wouldn't claim to know Alan's thinking, as a Gaming Pleb all I have to go on are third-hand reports of these events. I can only say I don't think rendering the Legions in 8th would be all that easy - no doubt it could be done and will be eventually, but it would require more than just a wee bit of rule flavour text, you'd have to bolt a functional morale system and a more layered psyk system back on to the core rules engine for a start or else you'd end up with Thousand Sons "masters of sorcery" stuck spamming Smite because of the Rule of 1 or whatever it's called and Night Lords who's grand manipulation of their opponents' psyche would amount to a modifier to how many models you lose to Battleshock. And then of course redo the rules for all the armies themselves, a fairly herculean task that could throw the whole game out of whack given I doubt FW would get to run the same amount of playtesting as was ostensibly done for 8th 40K.

​

​I quite like the sound of 8th 40K, the few oversimplified aspects and the questionable new fluff aside, and the idea of a version of "Advanced 8th Ed" tweaked for the Heresy in the same way 6th/7th was is appealing, but getting us almost all the way to Terra and then subjecting folk to even more delays while the transition happens, and leaving those who don't care for 8th or just want a complete collection in 7th so they have the option to use either stuck with an incomplete ruleset doesn't sound great to me. So I'm glad that they're releasing a 7th-based AoD rulebook, and I really really hope they're not going to wait until a lot of folk have bought that and adjusted to the idea of carrying on with 7th and then pull the rug out from under us with a pre-Terra transition to 8th.

"Alan died. Without breaking the spirit of my NDA and still giving you as much context as I can, that has changed everything, which you can see from the tone and detail of the press releases. You can assume from my posts I hope, that the change to 8th was intended to be fairly swift, and now - at best - is delayed for an indeterminate time."

"Yes, but it's very hard to convert."

"Uh, yeah. That's what I... what I said. That's why they're not doing it right now, because the guy who was going to do it--"

"It's really hard to convert, though."

"I'm not saying it's easy. I mean, I've literally said several times that it was hard and--"

"Here are the reasons it's hard to convert."

That's what this conversation feels like at times. I suspect I'm not alone in that. And, joking aside, I'm not arguing with people's preferences for editions. But I think some folks are taking "The intention wasn't to stick with 7th, it was to change over to 8th relatively soon - but now, who knows?" as some kind of attack or judgement call, when all it is is interesting context.

Here's how this thread feels to me;

"FW is so dumb for not moving HH to 8th immediatley. They are going to lose all their customers and HH is going to wither and die."

"Dude, take it easy, the guy who was leading the team just-"

"Now my HH army is completley useless! Why does FW hate money and want small town HH to die?!"

"Well they said that part of the problem is that the legion rules would be harder to do in 8th and-"

"That's a bunch of ! 8th is the best edition ever and can do anything better than anything else! Ever!"

"Well you can use 90% of your army in 8th if it really-"

"But I can't use this one unit or this other model! And none of my group will ever touch a 7th ed rule book again!!!!"

"Well chances are they'll move over to 8th eventually."

"They knew this was coming they should have been ready! They have split the HH commmunity! HH is already dead in my area! They won't get any new customers! Nobody will want to play HH ever again! I'm selling all my models! Damn you Forge World! God Damn you all to hell!"

whining ad nauseum

[Ishagu]

Actually the most negative posters to me appear to be the ones who look down on Heresy gamers who want their armies to be compatible with the majority of opponents in their communities.

[MysticTemplar]

 

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​​I certainly wouldn't claim to know Alan's thinking, as a Gaming Pleb all I have to go on are third-hand reports of these events. I can only say I don't think rendering the Legions in 8th would be all that easy - no doubt it could be done and will be eventually, but it would require more than just a wee bit of rule flavour text, you'd have to bolt a functional morale system and a more layered psyk system back on to the core rules engine for a start or else you'd end up with Thousand Sons "masters of sorcery" stuck spamming Smite because of the Rule of 1 or whatever it's called and Night Lords who's grand manipulation of their opponents' psyche would amount to a modifier to how many models you lose to Battleshock. And then of course redo the rules for all the armies themselves, a fairly herculean task that could throw the whole game out of whack given I doubt FW would get to run the same amount of playtesting as was ostensibly done for 8th 40K.

​

​I quite like the sound of 8th 40K, the few oversimplified aspects and the questionable new fluff aside, and the idea of a version of "Advanced 8th Ed" tweaked for the Heresy in the same way 6th/7th was is appealing, but getting us almost all the way to Terra and then subjecting folk to even more delays while the transition happens, and leaving those who don't care for 8th or just want a complete collection in 7th so they have the option to use either stuck with an incomplete ruleset doesn't sound great to me. So I'm glad that they're releasing a 7th-based AoD rulebook, and I really really hope they're not going to wait until a lot of folk have bought that and adjusted to the idea of carrying on with 7th and then pull the rug out from under us with a pre-Terra transition to 8th.

 

"Alan died. Without breaking the spirit of my NDA and still giving you as much context as I can, that has changed everything, which you can see from the tone and detail of the press releases. You can assume from my posts I hope, that the change to 8th was intended to be fairly swift, and now - at best - is delayed for an indeterminate time."

 

"Yes, but it's very hard to convert."

 

"Uh, yeah. That's what I... what I said. That's why they're not doing it right now, because the guy who was going to do it--"

 

"It's really hard to convert, though."

 

"I'm not saying it's easy. I mean, I've literally said several times that it was hard and--"

 

"Here are the reasons it's hard to convert."

 

 

That's what this conversation feels like at times. I suspect I'm not alone in that. And, joking aside, I'm not arguing with people's preferences for editions. But I think some folks are taking "The intention wasn't to stick with 7th, it was to change over to 8th relatively soon - but now, who knows?" as some kind of attack or judgement call, when all it is is interesting context.

 

 

From a personal stand point, it's a combination of the uncertainty and the way the news was handled than anything else.  While I understand on an intellectual level why this was the case, it does, unfortunately, still suck that we went from 'HH will remain 7th for now, but we'll have a big announcement on its future!' to 'HH isn't converting!' in official communication.  The first one is hype building, but...  hype building to announce that the status quo will remain?  I felt that it fell kind of flat.

 

I do tend to agree, though, that FW isn't doomed - but I do think it'll see a noticeable dip in sales in things that are 30k only.

 

Part of the problem, as well, with communication is that so much of what we say and see is dependent on our own perspectives.  I attempted to do a pithy conversation sum up here, but I couldn't really manage it - because there's at least three interrelated threads of conversation in this topic:

1.) Only having 40k opponents, and armies being unusable as a result. (The original thread topic.)

2.) Conversion to 8th

3.) Growth/Stagnation/Decline of the HH community as a result of being a different rules set from 40k.

 

I've generally appreciated your posts, ADB, because they provide some insight into the inner workings of GW and FW, and they're well thought out.  I think, though, that the fundamental reason for this thread is less about what people feel they prefer and more about what people feel they need.  (Admittedly, these can be kind of fuzzy, but the two concepts are both very subjective anyways, so...)

[ThatOneMarshal]

I say we all need to simmer down here and look at this again.

 

For the time being, if all you did was play 30k vs 40k, it's going to be impossible to play the same way that you once did. HOWEVER, forgeworld has released the indexs for their models. You can still use your models to create a space marine/ chaos space marine force with quite a bit of it being true to the army.

 

It will take quite a bit of time until the heresy actually gets converted, especially since they just lost Mr. Bligh. In the meanwhile play against other heresy lists until it gets converted. And here's the great thing about this: IF YOU DONT LIKE THE NEW EDITION STICK TO THE OLD EDITION. The heresy is pretty small, there's high chances your friends will be in a similar feeling as well

[noigrim]

I might consider selling my FW primarchs in christmas, until then I can play 7th sometimes at the local store, no problemos there

[Kais Klip]

Hard? What's hard about porting over the legion rules to 8th edition? We're doing it already

 

If you boys want to be critical, we could use some criticism and peer review, a trial by fire if you will. 

 

You guys sure seem to like complaining. It's barely a challenge to port the rules over when you have an eight hour workday and are paid to do so. The only reason for FW's hesitancy seems to be a need to reshuffle the office and re-assign the team workload now that one of their main contributors has completely unexpectedly shuffled off this mortal coil.

 

They're having a slight technical :cussing difficulty; It's a "bear with us guys", as well as a public statement to cover their ass from board pressure up top. It could also be that the team wants some time to, you know, maybe mourn the loss of a friend as well as the main workhorse?

 

It's a laugh to see you all scream emotional growth and making fun of Primarchs over-reacting to daddy-issues and absentee crusade leadership, when you yourselves pull 5 pages worth of moaning over a few facebook comments. Imagine if you had legions of your own? 

 

"What do you mean the choom is being phased out?!"

[Slips]

And with that, we're closing this down.

What's done is done.