8th Ed BA Tactica.

[Charlo]

Company vets can take jump packs for BA. 

[Xenith]

 

 

 

Thoughts on running 5 JP vanguard all with dual plasma? It's quite inexpensive and lets them do something useful as soon as they land. Overcharging them gives them str 8 rend 3 (which seems to be the magic number considering all the t7) which should be solid vs most MC/veichles.

 

Do it with company vets and drop a captain in with them also to reroll 1's. Essentially a guaranteed 10 hits, translating to about 6 wounds for 12 damage after saves. You can also take combi plasmas on the vets instead if you like.

 

The company vets can also take hits for the captain if needs be, and the serge can tale a combi plasma+storm shield or whatever.

 

 

 

I was thinking as a reserve alpha strike, company vets would require a pod making them quite expensive. 5 jump vanguard with 10 plasma shots should clock in at 32 meltabombs, though 12 inch range would make it easy to screen. 

 

 

Jump packs should be cheaper, and are just as a reliable a delivery system as the pod now. The pod is really for giving the deep strike deployment option to models that have no other way of taking it.

[dread05]

Blood angels company vets can take jump packs, maybe you missed that

[Karhedron]

Used in the other day (with a stormbolter). Will probably be my go to Razor for the time being.

I still have a couple of old-school Las/Plas Razorbacks that I am fond of. I was pleasantly surprised to see it was still available as an option in 8th edition as I half-expected GW to take the opportunity to quietly drop it. Anyway it is cheaper than dual lascannon and gets an impressive 5 shots with AP-3 at close range. Only downside is that overcharging is risky as a single 1 destroys the entire vehicle.

[Charlo]

 

Used in the other day (with a stormbolter). Will probably be my go to Razor for the time being.

I still have a couple of old-school Las/Plas Razorbacks that I am fond of. I was pleasantly surprised to see it was still available as an option in 8th edition as I half-expected GW to take the opportunity to quietly drop it. Anyway it is cheaper than dual lascannon and gets an impressive 5 shots with AP-3 at close range. Only downside is that overcharging is risky as a single 1 destroys the entire vehicle.

 

Just don't overcharge unless you have a captain nearby. But yeah, in terms of quality of shot really powerful. Hilariously the lascannon can shoot a different target to the plasma gun too hehe

[Karhedron]

How do the Primaris Intercessors stack up as a troops choice? Any use for them at all?

Given how anaemic our Tactical squads are, I am currently trying to work out if 2x5-man Intercessors and a sniper Scout squad would be a viable way of fulfilling my 3 Troops for a Battallion detachment.

 

At 100 points for 5, Intercessors are not bad. They have longer range and better AP than Tacticals meaning you are not buying the squad just to meat-shield the special/heavy weapon. Put them in cover baby-sitting a back-field objective and their 2 wounds means your opponent will have to deploy some actual effort if he wants to shift them. A 5-man Tac squad can be plinked away almost opportunistically during a battle. 5 Intercessors take a bit more work to shift and will be shooting back that bit harder until they are gone.

 

Not completely convinced by this idea but I plan to try it out and see if the superior stats make up for the lack of heavy/special weapons. If nothing else, they still unlock a transport option so you can take a shooty Razorback (even if they can't get in it ).

[Morticon]

Honestly think the only useful Primaris at the moment is the lieutenant.  

The intercessors are a waste of time.  As are the overcosted, underwhelming Inceptors.  Hellblasters okay- but would rather have something that can take a transport, packs or shields in addition to plasma. 

The best use for these guys?  Converting your old army to true-scale marines until GW fixes them. 

[bc99]

I haven't played the game in several editions. I started playing with the first edition and did most of my gaming with 2nd-3rd. I came back to the game for two reasons:

 

1) New game, revamp, balance.

 

2) I've got a son who's old enough to like these kind of games now. It's been fun seeing him get excited about the hobby.

 

I've been a Blood Angels player since back in the day. The lore, the look, everything has made Blood Angels my favorite chapter.

 

I popped by the forum to check on tactics, I've been following the hobby since I started playing, even though I took a break from the tabletop. This forum is one of my favorites.

 

Anyway, now to the post. 

 

I thought the game was supposed to be balanced, but I see that certain units are considered crap. Essentially, tacticals suck, assault marines suck, go company veterans, no to Sanguinary Guard, etc, etc.

 

I know the game has always been min/maxing on the competitive side but the GT above army list seems so boring. Anyway, just had to get that off my chest. Maybe I'm stuck in the old days but an army without tactical marines, even for BA seems odd. The cost discrepancies between units, and apparent worthlessness of units like assault marines seems to me that the game developers didn't do their testing right.

 

Anyway, I'm still excited, not to be a downer. My son is excited, in fact more so than I am! The joy of those first glimpses of an amazing hobby.

 

Oh yeah, he likes Chaos Demons... Emperor protect! :(

[Karhedron]

I thought the game was supposed to be balanced, but I see that certain units are considered crap. Essentially, tacticals suck, assault marines suck, go company veterans, no to Sanguinary Guard, etc, etc.

 

I know the game has always been min/maxing on the competitive side but the GT above army list seems so boring. Anyway, just had to get that off my chest. Maybe I'm stuck in the old days but an army without tactical marines, even for BA seems odd. The cost discrepancies between units, and apparent worthlessness of units like assault marines seems to me that the game developers didn't do their testing right.

I wouldn't worry too much. Fora like this always involve competitive players who theory-craft heavily and modest differences in effectiveness can feel like a deal-breaker but it really isn't such a big deal unless you really like to play competitively.

 

If you want to play a more fluffy army, the good news is that the new detachments reward you with more Command Points. Different people like to field different styles of army and whilst the balance is not as good as we might have hoped (or GW might have claimed) the good news is that more armies seem to have a shot at being competitive.

 

In 7th edition, BAs were pretty much inferior to vanilla marines with their hundreds of points of free transports just for taking Gladius detachments. Whilst the internal balance of our army (and probably others) is not great, it is possible to build competitive BAs again. And if you are playing in a more casual setting then don't worry. Your Tactical and Primaris marines may not be at the bleeding edge of competitive but they are still Marines which means tough, shooty and rarely running away.

[Jolemai]

 

Used in the other day (with a stormbolter). Will probably be my go to Razor for the time being.

I still have a couple of old-school Las/Plas Razorbacks that I am fond of. I was pleasantly surprised to see it was still available as an option in 8th edition as I half-expected GW to take the opportunity to quietly drop it. Anyway it is cheaper than dual lascannon and gets an impressive 5 shots with AP-3 at close range. Only downside is that overcharging is risky as a single 1 destroys the entire vehicle.

Mine appears on a regular basis but now it's got competition! (Tbh the Assback is challenging my Bolterback rather than my Plaserbacks. Still haven't fielded my Lasback or Meltaback yet)

[Indefragable]

I haven't played the game in several editions. I started playing with the first edition and did most of my gaming with 2nd-3rd. I came back to the game for two reasons:

 

1) New game, revamp, balance.

 

2) I've got a son who's old enough to like these kind of games now. It's been fun seeing him get excited about the hobby.

 

I've been a Blood Angels player since back in the day. The lore, the look, everything has made Blood Angels my favorite chapter.

 

I popped by the forum to check on tactics, I've been following the hobby since I started playing, even though I took a break from the tabletop. This forum is one of my favorites.

 

Anyway, now to the post. 

 

I thought the game was supposed to be balanced, but I see that certain units are considered crap. Essentially, tacticals suck, assault marines suck, go company veterans, no to Sanguinary Guard, etc, etc.

 

I know the game has always been min/maxing on the competitive side but the GT above army list seems so boring. Anyway, just had to get that off my chest. Maybe I'm stuck in the old days but an army without tactical marines, even for BA seems odd. The cost discrepancies between units, and apparent worthlessness of units like assault marines seems to me that the game developers didn't do their testing right.

 

Anyway, I'm still excited, not to be a downer. My son is excited, in fact more so than I am! The joy of those first glimpses of an amazing hobby.

 

Oh yeah, he likes Chaos Demons... Emperor protect!

 

I, for one, play in a club that tends to focus on "hyper-optimized" lists. Not necessarily the kinds of things you see at tournaments, but every single point counts and heaven forbid you should have 1995/2000pts since your opponent managed to squeeze in an extra biker psyker in those 5pts some how.

 

Playing Power levels now and then has been a great twist for everyone involved. Thunder Hammer on Tactical Sgt? Why not!

 

And it's actually probably a good thing your son likes Chaos....think of all the teaching moments! <points to Fulgrim> "See, son? This is why you don't do drugs"

 

 

I thought the game was supposed to be balanced, but I see that certain units are considered crap. Essentially, tacticals suck, assault marines suck, go company veterans, no to Sanguinary Guard, etc, etc.

 

I know the game has always been min/maxing on the competitive side but the GT above army list seems so boring. Anyway, just had to get that off my chest. Maybe I'm stuck in the old days but an army without tactical marines, even for BA seems odd. The cost discrepancies between units, and apparent worthlessness of units like assault marines seems to me that the game developers didn't do their testing right.

I wouldn't worry too much. Fora like this always involve competitive players who theory-craft heavily and modest differences in effectiveness can feel like a deal-breaker but it really isn't such a big deal unless you really like to play competitively.

 

If you want to play a more fluffy army, the good news is that the new detachments reward you with more Command Points. Different people like to field different styles of army and whilst the balance is not as good as we might have hoped (or GW might have claimed) the good news is that more armies seem to have a shot at being competitive.

 

In 7th edition, BAs were pretty much inferior to vanilla marines with their hundreds of points of free transports just for taking Gladius detachments. Whilst the internal balance of our army (and probably others) is not great, it is possible to build competitive BAs again. And if you are playing in a more casual setting then don't worry. Your Tactical and Primaris marines may not be at the bleeding edge of competitive but they are still Marines which means tough, shooty and rarely running away.

 

 

^what he said.

[Xenith]

As above, from a competitive stand point, some units are better than others, and some don't have a place.

 

For any other viewpoint, pretty much everything is valid. I'm still going to be using tactical marines.

[DemonGSides]

I've got too many tacticals to not use them in my lists.

[dread05]

Not that I have any actual experience, but I'm thinking that a couple squads of tacticals paired with an apothecary and a company ancient will hold their own in casual matches.

[Calistarius]

What's the general consensus on Land Speeders in 8th? Have you found a use for them?

[Indefragable]

I've got too many tacticals to not use them in my lists.

 

And this is why we now have Primaris marines.

[Calistarius]

I've got too many tacticals to not use them in my lists.

I had this problem too until I converted 20 of them to DC with bolters.

[Remtek]

Played a game game tonight vs a Magnus smite list with a good amount of mech/brimstones. Both lists a bit cheesy, but wanted to try out FW stuff.

 

 

Gabriel Seth

Primaris LT, powersword

DC Dread, 2x furioso fist, 2x heavy flamer, magna grapple

Stormraven Gunship 2x Stormstrike ML, twin multi melta, twin assault cannon, 2x hurricane bolter

5 Devsquad, 4 heavy flamer, combi flamer

5 Devsquad, 4 heavy flamer, combi flamer, cherub

Rapier Carrier Quad Heavy Bolter

Rapier Carrier Quad Heavy Bolter

Rapier Carrier Quad Heavy Bolter

Rapier Carrier Quad Heavy Bolter

Dreadnought 2x Twin Autocannon

Relic Whirlwind Scorpius

5 scouts, sarge power axe

5 scouts, sarge power axe

Razorback Assault Cannon

Razorback Assault Cannon

 

Early game most units stayed with 6 of Gabriel and Primaris for re-roll hits and re-roll to wounds of 1.  The rapier carriers and scorpius are absolutly disgusting when combined with with Seth/Primaris.  Stormraven died turn 1 (forgot about the Magnus double move + assault). Heavy flamer devs are suprisingly mobile since you can both disembark 3 + move 6.

 

Not really liking the gunline approauch although having a good amount of shooting feels really important for BA. Gabriel has a lot of potenial in gunlines or running a rhino rush assault list. 

 

Having some cheap screening units to deal with smite and assault blocking feels very important.

 

Overall i think combining devs and assaulty units in transport with shooty jump pack units in reserve could work really well for BA, but running assault units without transports feels very fragile. 

Edited June 28, 2017 by Remtek

[Aothaine]

Just want to point out that Tactical Squads are not bad. They are just used differently. Load them up, combat squad them and throw the the four marines with the sergeant in the razor and the heavy weapon team deployed forward for mid field coverage. 

 

I think a lot of us, including myself, are looking for that golden setup instead of looking at the units as part of a cog wheel turning the entire machine forward.

 

Tacticals can kit out a 5-man squad to target either MC/vehicles or hordes. Possibly both. I'm actually working on a list atm that uses tactical 5-mans for anti-vehicle and the razorbacks as anti-horde. 

 

You need to use your elites and hqs for buffing them. Then you run 1-2 assault squads to counter-charge. I'll post the list later tonight.

[Brother Clavero]

Aothaine: Please do post your list. I'm very interested to see what you've come up with.

[Karhedron]

What's the general consensus on Land Speeders in 8th? Have you found a use for them?

I am not quite sure yet. HB/AC costs more than a TLAC Razorback, has less firepower, lower toughness and fewer wounds. The FLY keyword is great for backing out of assaults whilst still being able to shoot but overall I think the increase in speed and maneuverability is not enough to to offset the disadvantages and cost compared to other gun platforms in our army.

 

If you really want to see how overcosted Land Speeders are, compare them to a bare-bones Wave Serpent.

[Arkhanist]

I think MM/heavy flamer would be the way to run them - use their mobility to get the MM into damage re-roll territory and the heavy flamer to punish chargers. As you say though, too expensive - particularly now that getting round the sides/rear of vehicles doesn't matter any more. Company vets fill that sort of role better for us now. Does leave the fast slots a bit underused! Scout bikes might be the best use of the slot if you had to.

[Aothaine]

Aothaine: Please do post your list. I'm very interested to see what you've come up with.

 

 

You asked. You shall receive. This is the first draft of the list.

 

Two Battalion Detachments, 9 Command points I think?, and the list comes to 2000pts exactly. I don't believe I made a mistake on the points.

 

 

Battalion Detachment - 752

 

HQ - Sanguinary Priest + Powerfist & Stormbolter - 91

 

HQ - Sanguinary Priest + Powerfist & Stormbolter - 91

 

TROOP - 570

 

Tactical Squad (5-Man) + Missile Launcher - 190

--Razorback + Twin Assault Cannon

 

Tactical Squad (5-Man) + Missile Launcher - 190

--Razorback + Twin Assault Cannon

 

Tactical Squad (5-Man) + Missile Launcher - 190

--Razorback + Twin Assault Cannon

 

 

Battalion Detachment - 1248

 

HQ - Captain + Powerfist & Chainsword - 94

 

HQ - Captain + Powerfist & Stormbolter - 96

 

HQ - Librarian + Forcestave & Bolt Pistol - 107

 

ELITE - 663

 

Death Company (5-man) + Power Sword x4 + Thunderhammer - 221

-- Razorback + Twin Assault Cannon

 

Death Company (5-man) + Power Sword x4 + Thunderhammer - 221

-- Razorback + Twin Assault Cannon

 

Death Company (5-man) + Power Sword x4 + Thunderhammer - 221

-- Razorback + Twin Assault Cannon

 

TROOP - 288

 

Scout Squad (5-man) + Sniper Riflex4 + Missile Launcher (96)

 

Scout Squad (5-man) + Sniper Riflex4 + Missile Launcher (96)

 

Scout Squad (5-man) + Sniper Riflex4 + Missile Launcher (96)

Edited June 28, 2017 by Aothaine

[Charlo]

Just want to point out that Tactical Squads are not bad. They are just used differently. Load them up, combat squad them and throw the the four marines with the sergeant in the razor and the heavy weapon team deployed forward for mid field coverage.

 

I think a lot of us, including myself, are looking for that golden setup instead of looking at the units as part of a cog wheel turning the entire machine forward.

 

Tacticals can kit out a 5-man squad to target either MC/vehicles or hordes. Possibly both. I'm actually working on a list atm that uses tactical 5-mans for anti-vehicle and the razorbacks as anti-horde.

 

You need to use your elites and hqs for buffing them. Then you run 1-2 assault squads to counter-charge. I'll post the list later tonight.

Problem is, unless you are going to a larger detachment, Devs now do that and much more with more firepower and better options.

[Aothaine]

 

Just want to point out that Tactical Squads are not bad. They are just used differently. Load them up, combat squad them and throw the the four marines with the sergeant in the razor and the heavy weapon team deployed forward for mid field coverage.

 

I think a lot of us, including myself, are looking for that golden setup instead of looking at the units as part of a cog wheel turning the entire machine forward.

 

Tacticals can kit out a 5-man squad to target either MC/vehicles or hordes. Possibly both. I'm actually working on a list atm that uses tactical 5-mans for anti-vehicle and the razorbacks as anti-horde.

 

You need to use your elites and hqs for buffing them. Then you run 1-2 assault squads to counter-charge. I'll post the list later tonight.

Problem is, unless you are going to a larger detachment, Devs now do that and much more with more firepower and better options.

 

 

I agree. But Tacticals have a use. They are good fillers.