toaae Posted June 2, 2017 Share Posted June 2, 2017 (edited) Rambo rhinos: Units now disembark at the start of the Movement phase, before the Transport moves, but can then move, shoot and fight normally in that turn. Vehicles can also advance, and charge into melee. Overwatch is automatic, and applies to all units that attempt a charge - until an enemy unit is within 1". So say your death company in a rhino gets out at the start of the move - the rhino optionally moves and advances, then charges first. If it survives overwatch, the death company can now charge the same target without any overwatch risk. Applicable to all foot assault units with a mobile transport. Ark - sadly not how it works anymore. You declare ALL your charges, and you get to overwatch everything charging you. There's no more restriction - in fact, it explicitly says you can fire many times a turn. Not how I read it. You choose a unit to charge with, choose a target, resolve overwatch, make charge move, and then "...Once you've moved all the models in the charging unit, choose another eligible unit and repeat the above procedure until all eligible units that you want to make charge moves have done so." Edited June 2, 2017 by Tahaal Arkhanist, Filius and Morticon 3 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkhanist Posted June 2, 2017 Share Posted June 2, 2017 (edited) Ark - sadly not how it works anymore. You declare ALL your charges, and you get to overwatch everything charging you. There's no more restriction - in fact, it explicitly says you can fire many times a turn. edit: tahaal beat me to it From the the overwatch section of the leaked book: "A target unit can potentially fire overwatch several times a turn, though it cannot fire if there are any enemy models within 1" of it". Also, you don't declare all charges at the start, you do them one at a time. At the end of step 4, "once you've moved all the models in the charging unit, choose another eligible unit and repeat the above procedure". The summary at the top of the charge sequence is 1. chose an eligible unit to charge, 2. choose targets (you can attempt to charge multiple, tho they all get to fire overwatch), 3. enemy resolves overwatch, and 4. roll 2d6 and resolve charge. So you only choose a 2nd unit to declare a charge after the 1st has completely resolved its charge move, there's nothing I can see that says anything about declaring everybody at step 1 first, only about doing picking (and fully resolving each charge process) one at a time. Going back to the rhino, once overwatch is complete, you then roll for charge. Obs if rhino is destroyed by overwatch, or fails its charge roll then it doesn't help. Then, pick your next unit to declare a charge (e.g. disembarked passengers), that original enemy unit can't overwatch any more as it has your rhino parked inside 1" distance. As long as the rhino can use its 12" move (and optional advance) to get close enough to make the charge (less than 3" after moving makes it certain) and survives overwatch (10 wounds? hope so!) it even gets to fight first in the combat phase along with the melee unit it dropped off at start of movement. Even if your passengers don't make it, the rhino will act as a sacrificial unit. Hell, drop off meltas or flamer marines, and it's still potentially useful to charge the rhino at a nearby threat to stop them firing at or charging your fireteam in their turn. Totally different mechanism for blocking overwatch from 7th of course, but it seems clear in the rules to me, and even intended that way for things like spiky transports from orks and dark eldar in their faction focus that are intended to do damage in melee. Edited June 2, 2017 by Arkhanist LutherMax and Morticon 2 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bartali Posted June 2, 2017 Share Posted June 2, 2017 If assault marines are troops I was considering a (most likely a successor) BA heavy jump pack assault army with 3 squads of inceptors(? Jump pack primaris) with assault marines filling the troop slots. My only current issue is big vehicle/monster death whilst keeping within the realms of the style Assault Marines still aren't troops for BA. However you can run the Fast Attack (can't remember the name) detachment which gives you up to 6 FA choices, with a minimum of three. No requirements to take troops in it. Karhedron and LutherMax 2 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helterskelter Posted June 2, 2017 Share Posted June 2, 2017 If assault marines are troops I was considering a (most likely a successor) BA heavy jump pack assault army with 3 squads of inceptors(? Jump pack primaris) with assault marines filling the troop slots. My only current issue is big vehicle/monster death whilst keeping within the realms of the style Assault Marines still aren't troops for BA. However you can run the Fast Attack (can't remember the name) detachment which gives you up to 6 FA choices, with a minimum of three. No requirements to take troops in it. Just went to mooch, It's the outrider detachment that one, so I'd probably take a jump chappy with it, maybe a libby (for the lack of a jump primaris hq at the moment). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bartali Posted June 2, 2017 Share Posted June 2, 2017 Question for BA Dread with Fists or Talons. Prices are listed as points per weapon Blood Claws are Xpts Furiso Fists are ypts (single) zpts(pair) If the Dread has two fists do we pay zpts (as it says pair), or do we pay 2x zpts (as the listing says points per weapon, and we're buying 2 fists) Similarly for the talons, do we just pay xpts, or it is 2x xpts for both claws ? I'm guessing we just pay once - BA Dreads would be ridiculously pointed otherwise Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenith Posted June 2, 2017 Share Posted June 2, 2017 Once for the pair of talons - it's plural, like the Twin Lascannon entry. Furioso fists have two costs as they can be taken individually on fragiosos and libby dreads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted June 2, 2017 Share Posted June 2, 2017 Guys... LOVING the positivity here! We're already finding the GOODSTUFFTM that is only avaialble to us and the rules aren't even out yet ;) I'm totally loving the banner bearers, some real classic BA imagery in them. Captains are now useful which is cool. Meltacide is alive, it's just a shame mine are not painted as Veterans... :| Can anyone confirm if double hand flamers is still a valid option for Vanguard Vets (or whatever they are now)... If so they got cheaper I think :D Morticon and Filius 2 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenith Posted June 2, 2017 Share Posted June 2, 2017 Meltacide is alive, it's just a shame mine are not painted as Veterans... :| Well, 3rd ed veteran assault squads had yellow helmets also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jbird Posted June 2, 2017 Share Posted June 2, 2017 Anybody know how much the company veterans are when equipped with jump pack, all I can see is that it's +1 power rating but not a points cost? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkhanist Posted June 2, 2017 Share Posted June 2, 2017 (edited) Guys... LOVING the positivity here! We're already finding the GOODSTUFFTM that is only avaialble to us and the rules aren't even out yet ... Can anyone confirm if double hand flamers is still a valid option for Vanguard Vets (or whatever they are now)... If so they got cheaper I think JP BA company vets as cheap special weapon deepstrikers is awesome and unique - that unit alone pretty much makes me love BA again. Hand flamers (and inferno pistols) are added to the pistol list for all BA units, so any BA unit that can choose pistols can take them. Vanguard can swap BP & chainsword for any two melee or pistols. Hand flamers are 8p each, so 34 points per gunslinger BBQ vet. Anybody know how much the company veterans are when equipped with jump pack, all I can see is that it's +1 power rating but not a points cost? 19 points per (without wargear); they're listed under blood angel unit costs, as only they can take them with JP. Edited June 2, 2017 by Arkhanist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silverson Posted June 2, 2017 Share Posted June 2, 2017 (edited) as far as i can see we now have access to grav cannon/grav amp devastators (retaining the blood angels key word) Edited June 2, 2017 by Silverson mustardParty 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tkni Posted June 2, 2017 Share Posted June 2, 2017 (edited) We had that thanks to Angels Blade, but we now also have a. heavy flamer as an option for Devs and b. Grav Cannons as an option for Tacs. Edited June 2, 2017 by Taeknologik Silverson and NTaW 2 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted June 2, 2017 Share Posted June 2, 2017 Meltacide is alive, it's just a shame mine are not painted as Veterans... :| Well, 3rd ed veteran assault squads had yellow helmets also. Yeeeeeeah but my colour convention for my successor is the weapon casings are in the traditional colours. So now I'd need gold Meltaguns... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bartali Posted June 2, 2017 Share Posted June 2, 2017 I'm fiddling around with a few lists for my first 8th ed game at 750pts... and to be honest, for the most part, they're aren't any really bad options*. I'm making the list around what models I want to use first and foremost. It's quite refreshing. *Still don't like Infernus Pistols. Or Librarians, when you can blow yourself and surrounding squads up on Perils. Captains, Chaplains and Priests are cheaper and give similar buffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted June 2, 2017 Author Share Posted June 2, 2017 Rambo rhinos: Units now disembark at the start of the Movement phase, before the Transport moves, but can then move, shoot and fight normally in that turn. Vehicles can also advance, and charge into melee. Overwatch is automatic, and applies to all units that attempt a charge - until an enemy unit is within 1". So say your death company in a rhino gets out at the start of the move - the rhino optionally moves and advances, then charges first. If it survives overwatch, the death company can now charge the same target without any overwatch risk. Applicable to all foot assault units with a mobile transport. Ark - sadly not how it works anymore. You declare ALL your charges, and you get to overwatch everything charging you. There's no more restriction - in fact, it explicitly says you can fire many times a turn. Not how I read it. You choose a unit to charge with, choose a target, resolve overwatch, make charge move, and then "...Once you've moved all the models in the charging unit, choose another eligible unit and repeat the above procedure until all eligible units that you want to make charge moves have done so." No idea why i missed that reading on!! My bad! Shot for clearing it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sebs_evo7 Posted June 2, 2017 Share Posted June 2, 2017 I can see myself using the sanguiniary guard ancients. Tossing up on the sword, axe or fist though They seem like the can provide cheap buffs and can also counter charge which seems solid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bartali Posted June 2, 2017 Share Posted June 2, 2017 Sang Guard Ancients take up an elites slot though - which may or may not be a problem depending on the detachment you've picked. You're also going to want to put your warlord into the unit so the Sang Guard can get re-rolls. I've just put a Sang Priest with mine - they're cheap enough, can trigger the re-rolls, gives them +1S and can heal them. Silverson and sebs_evo7 2 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted June 2, 2017 Share Posted June 2, 2017 What's not to like about Infernus Pistols?! One of the most powerful weapons in the game for raw damage that you can shoot with if you are in combat! There's a reason they are wrist mounted!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blindhamster Posted June 2, 2017 Share Posted June 2, 2017 im seriously wondering about doing a primaris force, backed up with custodes...do i do them as blood angels? As noted, really being blood angels adds nothing to primaris currently (which sucks). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted June 2, 2017 Author Share Posted June 2, 2017 im seriously wondering about doing a primaris force, backed up with custodes... do i do them as blood angels? As noted, really being blood angels adds nothing to primaris currently (which sucks). Not entirely true!! Within 6" of our heroes we can get +1S or +1 attacks, or special abilities like rerolls. All depends on synergies. Its not so much that BA add nothing to Primaris, but more that Primaris add very little to BA. olcottr and Aothaine 2 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blindhamster Posted June 2, 2017 Share Posted June 2, 2017 mmm, I just want to use the new models, theyre so much nicer than the existing marines (which is sad, as my blood angels have around three companies worth of marines at this point...). I think Primaris need a CC squad, something with power swords would be nice, presumably such a squad would be 3 attacks each, seeing as the base dude is 2 attacks.For now, I'm thinking the flying ones could make for a nice fire support squad, they aren't quite as fast as assault marines, but are still nippy.Possibly run some sanguinary guard with the primaris to provide the CC punch for now. I personally like the plasma squad, I think they'll be pretty handy as a fairly dangerous squad to use.The regular primaris are interesting - they have more attacks than a regular marine, and more wounds, they dont cost double a regular marine, but arent too far off it though.I desperately need to know what the rules for the repulsor and dreadnought will be.also, the primaris lieutenants could make for fairly nice cheap HQ options. Morticon 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted June 2, 2017 Share Posted June 2, 2017 Remember the Primaris line at the moment is just the snap-fit kits. They'll no doubt get proper releases and we'll have the rules then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blindhamster Posted June 2, 2017 Share Posted June 2, 2017 I will have ALL the primaris. (sorry thats off topic...)I reckon the thing with primaris is they are very specific in their purpose, so you need to build around that. Whereas our standard tacticals are well... more tactical.For pure blood angels, I honestly dont see our builds changing over much, but the way we use them will see a bit of change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
durdle-durdle Posted June 2, 2017 Share Posted June 2, 2017 (edited) So I think death co can take 2 chainswords by trading in their pistol. That would mean they get 5 attacks each on the charge, right? (Split one base attack into each sword, for 2 bonus attacks, +1 from black rage). Meaning effectively they would have 4 attacks base. I'm fine trading my pistol for that. Edited June 2, 2017 by durdle-durdle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jbird Posted June 2, 2017 Share Posted June 2, 2017 So I think death co can take 2 chainswords by trading in their pistol. That would mean they get 5 attacks each on the charge, right? (Split one base attack into each sword, for 2 bonus attacks, +1 from black rage). Meaning effectively they would have 4 attacks base. I'm fine trading my pistol for that. I'm not sure you can, it seems to say you can only swap bolt pistol for boltgun, hand flamer, Inferno pistol, Plasma pistol, or power weapon, but not another chainsword. Definitely think Plasma pistol chainsword combo is the way to go, deep strike in, unleash some Plasma on a tougher unit then go for the charge on something weaker and use the extra chainsword attack to butcher some troops Aothaine and mustardParty 2 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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