8th Ed BA Tactica.

[Maakeff]

Seeing the T5 and 2 HP of the SM bikes, I'm considering adding a squad with an attack bike in support. They seem quite interesting for flanking manœuvres and quite good in this edition.

 

You guys have already tried them in 8th ?

I'm tempted to try bikes in squads of 3 carrying plasma or melta guns, not so hot on the idea of attack bikes though since part of a bike's shtick is mobility which all but guarantees them being at -1 to fire their heavy weapons. I'm also not sure what this would add to a Blood Angels force that it wouldn't add to anyone else's, or that can't be done already with jump pack troops. All of the Blood Angel specific auras are focused around melee, rightly so of course...

[Cronhour]

Anyone one used storm bolter command squads? Deepstriking within 12 for 20 shots? Rerolls off dante, relatively cheap at 2pts a gun, add a storm shield or two to a squad to beef it up?

[Boudan]

Anyone one used storm bolter command squads? Deepstriking within 12 for 20 shots? Rerolls off dante, relatively cheap at 2pts a gun, add a storm shield or two to a squad to beef it up?

I hadn't thought before about this particular combo, but you highlight that storm bolters are a great upgrade for their price. I often have a few left-over points when making lists, and frequently storm bolters are a neat fit for sergeants or buffing-HQs like Primaris Lieutenants.

Edited July 16, 2017 by Boudan

[CaptainHelion]

It's a decent idea for anyone planning on using the command squad to tank wounds for a commander. It's a good amount of firepower for not a lot of points, which means losing the lads to mortal wounds won't hurt so much.

[Jolemai]

Keep it tidy, chaps.

 

Posting quality is wavering a bit. Remember to keep it informative, beneficial, productive and of good standard.

 

Thanks.

To add, if we can take wishlisting elsewhere, that would be grand. Edited July 16, 2017 by Jolemai

[Remtek]

Anyone one used storm bolter command squads? Deepstriking within 12 for 20 shots? Rerolls off dante, relatively cheap at 2pts a gun, add a storm shield or two to a squad to beef it up?

 

I have been running two five man squads with stormbolters in 7 games, 3 games without stormshields and 4 with. 

They have been doing great at dropping on backfield objective chaff units. Overall i'd recomend taking 3-4 shields as well depending on your meta and a t-hammer on your sarge as he has 3 attacks base. A bit on the fence on mixing plasma in as they often drop near light infantry. 

 Almost done painting the first 5! 

http://remtek.be/40k/command-ba.PNG

[Jolemai]

 

Keep it tidy, chaps.

 

Posting quality is wavering a bit. Remember to keep it informative, beneficial, productive and of good standard.

 

Thanks.

To add, if we can take wishlisting elsewhere, that would be grand.

 

 

All speculation on our "Chapter Tactics" to be discussed here please. Posts previous to this nudge have been moved, subsequent ones will be hidden as it is off topic for this thread.

[Chaplain Gunzhard]

Lesson I learned this weekend:

 

Consolidating into or piling-in into a new "combat" is actually awesome and viable. My DC dread didn't kill much but when he was able to consolidate his 6" into other units (and avoid a full Plasmagun veteran squad Overwatch!!) it was nice.

 

Piling-in to a previously unengaged unit is a little easier with a larger unit because you have to move towards the closest enemy, but if you plan for it -- you can avoid Overwatch. This is very helpful against units with good AP flamers (like Rubric marines and Flamers) - I learned the hard way.

 

Since your unit has already activated/attacked it cannot do so again, while the newly engaged unit can fight back against you, but this is great for stopping units from A) overwatch and B.) shooting/advancing/charging in their next turn whether they flee or not (baring some special rules).

 

The key is - to make sure you use your full charge distance to get into an advantageous position, allowing you to consolidate into something else later...

Edited July 16, 2017 by Chaplain Gunzhard

[Chaplain Gunzhard]

Another lesson I learned:

 

Be very careful and deliberate with your character placement.

 

1) You don't want him to be able to get picked off by shooting. But you can't just stick him far in the back because --->

 

2) and most importantly for us (I learned the hard way) - either the character or the unit might fail the charge, leaving either your character fighting alone and eating overwatch (if you still decide to charge him) - or your unit fighting without its aura buffs. This is especially important when running multiple characters, for example my beatstick unit was Dante, a Sanguinary Priest, a Sanguinary Ancient, and a unit of Sanguinary Guard... each having to make separate charge rolls.

 

Several times in my games I lost my aura buff because one or the other failed the charge.

Edited July 17, 2017 by Chaplain Gunzhard

[LutherMax]

Another lesson I learned:

 

Be very careful and deliberate with your character placement.

 

1) You don't want him to be able to get picked off by shooting. But you can't just stick him far in the back because --->

 

2) and most importantly for us (I learned the hard way) - either the character or the unit might fail the charge, leaving either your character fighting alone and eating overwatch - or your unit fighting without its aura buffs. This is especially important when running multiple characters, for example my beatstick unit was Dante, a Sanguinary Priest, a Sanguinary Ancient, and a unit of Sanguinary Guard... each having to make separate charge rolls.

 

Several times in my games I lost my aura buff because one or the other failed the charge.

Good info. What do you think the solution is here?

[Chaplain Gunzhard]

Really the solution for me was -- don't bother going for the Assault out of Deep Strike... it happened like every single time haha - that one or the other would fail the roll. A few times I used CP to re-roll dice but that's not a solid tactic really. I found I was much better off dropping to setup a turn 2 assault instead. That way my units in transports were also closer and could get out before the vehicles moved again (including DC dread in Stormraven). On subsequent turns I always tried to keep the characters in my "second rank" so they were close but not out front.

 

That said, I've never been a great player somebody can figure out how to theoryhammer this better than me.

Edited July 16, 2017 by Chaplain Gunzhard

[Crimson Devil]

Why are you charging the character in after the unit fails the charge? You don't declare them together. Your characters should never be vulnerable to overwatch.

 

Pick a unit and resolve the charge phase completely before declaring your next unit. Also only the first model moved has to get within 1" of the enemy. Everybody else can move up to the number rolled. So you can string some guys behind to stay in an aura.

[Crimson Devil]

Also make sure you leave open charge lanes for your characters when you move your unit, otherwise they will be unable to get within 1" and thus fail the charge.

[Chaplain Gunzhard]

Why are you charging the character in after the unit fails the charge? You don't declare them together. Your characters should never be vulnerable to overwatch.

 

Pick a unit and resolve the charge phase completely before declaring your next unit. Also only the first model moved has to get within 1" of the enemy. Everybody else can move up to the number rolled. So you can string some guys behind to stay in an aura.

 

No absolutely... my point was if you are trying to make a charge out of deep strike and the unit fails, and in some cases I might still even charge the character in. But the real issue of course is losing your aura bubble, and needing a 9" charge requires way too much of string of guys to stay within that bubble.

 

Also make sure you leave open charge lanes for your characters when you move your unit, otherwise they will be unable to get within 1" and thus fail the charge.

 

And absolutely this... this is trickier than it seems!

Edited July 17, 2017 by Chaplain Gunzhard

[Crimson Devil]

Charging out of deep strike is a trap. Don't do it.

[Zenxzen]

Another lesson I learned:

 

Be very careful and deliberate with your character placement.

 

1) You don't want him to be able to get picked off by shooting. But you can't just stick him far in the back because --->

 

2) and most importantly for us (I learned the hard way) - either the character or the unit might fail the charge, leaving either your character fighting alone and eating overwatch - or your unit fighting without its aura buffs. This is especially important when running multiple characters, for example my beatstick unit was Dante, a Sanguinary Priest, a Sanguinary Ancient, and a unit of Sanguinary Guard... each having to make separate charge rolls.

 

Several times in my games I lost my aura buff because one or the other failed the charge.

 

I read the Forums most everyday and then look at my list for tactics and Rules as posted.

 

If i am missing something here Please let me know and ignore anything else i'm going to say. 

 

Page 176 in the BRB under Units..

 

UNITS

Models move and fight in units, made

up of one or more models. A unit must

be set up and finish any sort of move

as a group....

 

Page  182...

 

4. Make Charge Move

 No models in the

charging unit can move within 1" of an enemy unit that

was not a target of its charge. If this is impossible, the

charge fails and no models in the charging unit move

this phase. Once you’ve moved all the models in the

charging unit, choose another eligible unit and repeat

the above procedure until all eligible units that you want

to make charge moves have done so...

 

Page 179 under Characters... half way down the block.

 

A Character can only be chosen as a target in the shooting phase if they are

the closest visible Enemy Unit to the model that is shooting.

 

The latest FAQ from GW says..

 

Q. Can I set up a unit, or finish any sort of move with a unit,

so that its models form several separate groups (where each

group consists of models from that unit that are within 2"

horizontally and 6" vertically of at least one other model from

their group)?

A. No. The unit must set up or finish any sort of move as

a single group.

Q. Can a unit fire Overwatch at a Character if, when it

declares its charge at them, there are other visible enemy models

that are closer?

A. Yes.

 

The way I take this is, Characters are their on unit even if among another unit say VV.

They have their on movement and Charge, so if the VV charge their roll is first as 

you declare a charge with a unit and pass or fail you then pick your next unit and declare

their Charge ie: Character

 

1. A Character is their on Unit

2. A Character does not have to charge when you declare the VV as they are a different Unit.

3. You would not be able to Tank wounds for the VV if they get overwatched and take wounds as the Character is a Separate Unit.

4. The Character can wait until the VV pass or fail the Charge before the Character would have to decide. 

 

Really kind of want to be straight on this as it makes a huge difference in our Tactics. 

[Chaplain Gunzhard]

Yeah you are correct, I didn't mean to imply that you had to charge with the character if the unit fails, I was referring to trying to assault out of deep strike - but yeah most of the time (not always) if the unit fails it's best not to bother charging with the character, that said if it's Dante facing a bunch of chumps he's charging by himself!

 

Your point number 3. is confusing to me though - whoever charges first absolutely can tank that overwatch, however if they fail the charge (and ONLY if they fail the charge) that target unit can still fire overwatch should you decide to charge again, with say, your character etc...

Edited July 17, 2017 by Chaplain Gunzhard

[Zenxzen]

I think what I meant to say to point 3 was, in the shooting phase if the VV took wounds the Character could not Tank those wounds.

 

Thanks for the reply as that makes things MUCH clearer for me..

Edited July 17, 2017 by Zenxzen

[Indefragable]

Regarding #3 in the posts above, my understanding is that Overwatch overrides the Character factor.

 

So if you have a line of Tacticals 3" away from an enemy and a character 4" away:

-in the Shooting phase the enemy can ONLY target the Tacticals.

-in your Charge phase, the enemy unit can overwatch ANY of your units that have declared a charge, as long as they are able to do so

----scenario A) Tacticals declare Charge. Enemy unit overwatchs. Tacticals make it. Character declares charge, but enemy unit is tied up and cannot OW

----scenario B ) Tacticals declare Charge. Enemy OW Tacticals. Tacs fail charge distance. Character declares Charge, enemy OW's Character,

----scenario C) Tacticals do not declare Charge, character does. Enemy OW's character. Character survives OW and makes it in. Tacticals declare charge, enemy can not OW because they are tied up with Character

[Indefragable]

On a different note has anyone tried D.C. (Or other units) with Power weapon + chainsword? Forgo Shooting for more choppiness.

 

I'm thinking D.C. w/ power sword + chainswords:

 

Gives you 2x/3x S- AP-3 attacks plus a "free" S- AP- attack as well....

 

 

...right?

 

Wording says "each time the bearer fights, it can make 1 additional attack with this weapon." So does that mean you have to make at least 1 attack in order to get the 2nd? Or is it truly a "free" additional attack?

[DemonGSides]

On a different note has anyone tried D.C. (Or other units) with Power weapon + chainsword? Forgo Shooting for more choppiness.

 

I'm thinking D.C. w/ power sword + chainswords:

 

Gives you 2x/3x S- AP-3 attacks plus a "free" S- AP- attack as well....

 

 

...right?

 

Wording says "each time the bearer fights, it can make 1 additional attack with this weapon." So does that mean you have to make at least 1 attack in order to get the 2nd? Or is it truly a "free" additional attack?

 

I read it as an extra free attack with that weapon.  So your first 2 attacks are with the Power Sword, then your 3rd free attack is your chainsword.

[Jolemai]

You have to make one attack with the chainsword to get it. It's kinda explained in the BRB FAQ.

[olcottr]

That is exactly how I see it.

 

The Chainsword says: "Each time the bearer fights, it can make 1 additional attack with this weapon."

 

So the DCM Fights, makes 2 power sword attacks, then can make 1 additional attack with the chainsword.

[olcottr]

The FAQ only references the 2 chainsword build.  It also says both extra attacks must be made with the chainswords.

[Morticon]

 

On a different note has anyone tried D.C. (Or other units) with Power weapon + chainsword? Forgo Shooting for more choppiness.

 

I'm thinking D.C. w/ power sword + chainswords:

 

Gives you 2x/3x S- AP-3 attacks plus a "free" S- AP- attack as well....

 

 

...right?

 

Wording says "each time the bearer fights, it can make 1 additional attack with this weapon." So does that mean you have to make at least 1 attack in order to get the 2nd? Or is it truly a "free" additional attack?

 

I read it as an extra free attack with that weapon.  So your first 2 attacks are with the Power Sword, then your 3rd free attack is your chainsword.

 

 

How you fight in combat is explained in the rulebook.  So, the chainsword rule cues the fight rule, which you then reference.  This is further supported by the second clause "it can make 1 additional attack with this weapon" - referencing the rule that you need to attack with a weapon when you fight.  

 

We cant apply this stuff out of context.