8th Ed BA Tactica.

[Boudan]

Has anyone tested Whirlwinds yet? I'd like to field test one next week, but would like to know anyone's experiences.

[LutherMax]

I haven't yet but I plan to - gotta love the 'no need for line of sight' thing!

[Spagunk]

Has anyone tested Whirlwinds yet? I'd like to field test one next week, but would like to know anyone's experiences.

My first attempt, it was annoying for my opponent but not terribly ground breaking. Being able to fire out of line of sight is really nice. Otherwise, it's not really scary on its own.

 

Oddly, he spent a lot of firepower trying to take it out. Since it stood still, knocking it below 6 HP really didn't do much other than make it slightly harder for it to shoot with.

[Jorre]

I've played 4 games at a tournament with a whirlwind...

 

It was usefull but not a standout. It sat up the back out of Los most games so never died... in fact I don't remember it even getting wounded. It's damage output was a little unreliable but occasionally it would put a couple wounds on something important or finish a squad off.

 

Managed to kill the last 3 pox walkers holding an objective in 1 game.

 

I would use it again, but don't expect miracles out of it

[LutherMax]

It sounds like good value - earns its points even if only as a distraction.

[Charlo]

So we've been given access to all the nice new units from the primaris range.

 

PDF online has the points and the rules are in the box.

 

What do we think?

 

S5 Reivers from a priest seem nicely strong.

Same for Agresssors getting S9 fists and healing.

Giving any kind of Primaris a 4++ with psychic powers seems dreamy.

 

It's kid of funny how SG are basically Primaris marines too with 2 wounds, 2 attacks etc

 

Redemptor Dread is tasty, but I'm holding off for now.

 

Tycho seems a match made in heaven for the Hellstorm Plasmas, with them having an Assault, Rapid Fire or Heavy option now.

 

Stalker Bolter Troops primaris offer us a solid backline, especially in cover.

[NTaW]

I feel like Whirlwinds are best used in groups, one doesn't seem enough. Thinking of using three in support of a jump-themed list but haven't gotten any games with my BA in yet this edition.

[terminatorAM]

What do people think of the humble Techmarine?

 

We're the only chapter that can give him a jump pack. This let's him "deep strike" behind an advancing line of tanks that's weathered a round or two of for and then head them on turn 2 or 3.

 

I'm assuming the Blessings of the Omnissiah role can be used after the Jump Pack Assault rule despite both of them being usable "at the end of the Movement phase".

 

This might be a fun tactic to use in a tanky list with land raiders and Preds. Or for laughs when you charge a Rhino into combat to tar-pit an enemy close combat unit :)

[Panzer]

Well he has 3 attacks with WS3+ on his Power Axe. An additional attack with a -1 to-hit modifier but stronger. Maybe a nice Combi-weapon for his BS2+. That's not much on his own.

If he goes for a Servo harnish he also has one more servo arm attack and a plasma cutter which would make him slightly more capable. The flamer he can't use after coming from reserves anyway due being out of range but it can do some work in overwatch I guess.

 

Overall his damage output is pretty underwhelming on his own.

 

If it's just for the catching up to the tanks and repairing part I don't see why he couldn't just walk up behind those tanks with either his Jump Pack or on a Bike.

Edited July 24, 2017 by sfPanzer

[Charlo]

Cheap HQ who can keep big stuff repaired.

 

That's his role IMO.

[Riot Earp]

What do people think of the humble Techmarine?

 

We're the only chapter that can give him a jump pack. This let's him "deep strike" behind an advancing line of tanks that's weathered a round or two of for and then head them on turn 2 or 3.

 

I'm assuming the Blessings of the Omnissiah role can be used after the Jump Pack Assault rule despite both of them being usable "at the end of the Movement phase".

 

This might be a fun tactic to use in a tanky list with land raiders and Preds. Or for laughs when you charge a Rhino into combat to tar-pit an enemy close combat unit

 

I tried out two techmarines. One with JP one with Bike in my last tournament. (http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/297201-ba-today/?p=4820776)

They realy helped to repair my stormravens. But one or two jumping arround your vehicle park and repairing lost hull points would be also an good idea.

They have their advantages above Bike marines as they can assault flyer, jump into ruins where bikers have to wait outside.. and shoot avter disengaging from combat.

They are no combat beast so don´t expect much from them but they can hurt some normal marines.

 

Just try them out. I like them. In the future i will only play one techmarine with jp if i have the points and field a lot of vehicles.

[Indefragable]

In general I've always found the idea of jump Techmarines weird. They look funny in my head, but that's a different story.

 

In 7th I had moderate success with a biker Techmarine. He can hide behind a Predator chassis fairly well and is mobile enough to keep up with them. T5 doesn't hurt either.

 

Like all things, you need enough in your list to justify bringing one. "Enough" is entirely subjective.

[Karhedron]

What you have to bear in mind is their points efficiency. A Rhino has 10 wounds and costs 70-ish points meaning that each wound (and hence each wound repaired) is only worth 7 points. Do the same maths for a Land raider and you are closer to 20 points per wound.

 

If a Techmarine can make back his own points in terms of wounds repaired, he is probably worth taking, even if he has no extra effect on the battle. Based on this, he doesn't necessarily need lots of vehicles to repair. Just 1 or 2 will do provided he can make back his own cost in points.

[Riot Earp]

I find him not only worth taking if he gets hits points back.

I had a view games where the techmarine pushed the lives of the ravens from 1 to 4 so he could shoot better again.

The damage the ravens lay on the enemy with that better bs felt also in my worth the points calculation.

Edited July 25, 2017 by Riot Earp

[Jorre]

I wouldnt be building any characters on bikes... the new sm book doesn't have apothecaries, Chaplin, librarian or even Khan on a bike.

 

Most likely because there is no model. I would expect them to be obsoleted for us when our codex comes out to

add tech marines to that list to

[Panzer]

GW also said to use the Index Datasheet when there is none for the unit in the Codex, so Bike Librarians etc. are still legal but unless they get a new Datasheet eventually they won't get any re-adjustement in future.

[Karhedron]

I wouldnt be building any characters on bikes... the new sm book doesn't have apothecaries, Chaplin, librarian or even Khan on a bike.

 

Most likely because there is no model. I would expect them to be obsoleted for us when our codex comes out to

add tech marines to that list to

 

No Chaplain on bike? That is weird as there was a model of one for quite a while.

 

http://miniset.net/files/set/gw-99140101076.jpg

[Charlo]

But there isn't one now. Which is the main crux.

 

It was previously only metal and only did a limited run around Christmas again...

 

As stated on Community though can still fully use it in the index with wargear costs from the codex.

[Mightykin]

I have just read a blog the 'rifleman' dread is not being included in the new SM codex.

 

So following the same reasoning, I guess it won't be in ours. However, we won't know for certain until release.

 

Just to give everyone a heads up.

M

[DemonGSides]

I have just read a blog the 'rifleman' dread is not being included in the new SM codex.

 

So following the same reasoning, I guess it won't be in ours. However, we won't know for certain until release.

 

Just to give everyone a heads up.

M

I'm confused; are you saying there won't be an entry in the SM codex for the Redemptor Dreadnought?  Because there is.

[Panzer]

 

I have just read a blog the 'rifleman' dread is not being included in the new SM codex.

 

So following the same reasoning, I guess it won't be in ours. However, we won't know for certain until release.

 

Just to give everyone a heads up.

M

I'm confused; are you saying there won't be an entry in the SM codex for the Redemptor Dreadnought?  Because there is.

 

Rifleman = double twin autocannon Dread.

The Dreadnought Datasheet in C:SM has no option to take a second twin autocannon.

[Arkhanist]

They seem to have purged a bunch of older stuff that doesn't have current models/bits, so yeah, that's likely to happen for the BA codex too. The plastic dread kits never did come with autocannons IIRC, that was always a forgeworld arm option. The forgeworld astartes index has the mortis dread that allows you to replicate the rifleman for 5 pts extra, with the extra option of adding a cyclone missile launcher with the current FAQ (a boxy baby deredeo!). That doesn't get you the venerable rifleman, but we didn't have that anyway.

 

Or you can continue to use the datasheets from index imperium 1 for units that aren't in the codex if you have 'legacy' models. That's the only way to continue to take the las/auto dread I believe, as well as things like the imperial space marine, various bike characters etc.

 

From the codex article on warhammer community:

 

"There are a few options that are missing in the codex that appear in the index: why is that? Does that mean I can’t use these models in my army anymore?

 

While the indexes are designed to cover a long history of miniatures, the codexes are designed to give you rules for the current Warhammer 40,000 range. There are a few options in the indexes for some Characters and vehicles that are no longer represented in the Citadel range – certain Dreadnought weapons that don’t come in the box, or some characters on bikes, for example.
Don’t worry though, you can still use all of these in your games if you have these older models. In these instances, use the datasheet from the index, and the most recent points published for that model and its weapons (currently, also in the index).
They still gain all the army wide-bonuses for things like Chapter Tactics and can use Space Marines Stratagems and the like, so such venerable heroes still fit right in with the rest of your army."

 

I've seen this summary for the changes in the SM codex that will be relevant if we take codex allies, and an idea of where we might end up:

 

"bad stuff:

Kor'sarro Khan can only be used on foot
Dreadnoughts lost options for twin heavy flamer, twin heavy bolter, and twin autocannonn (no more rifledreads!)
Sergeants can't take combigravs
Honor guards can only take power axes for combat weapons
chapter champion can only take champion's blade and power sword
these units can no longer be chosen: LR excelsior, tyranic war veterans, terminus ultra, imperial marine, librarian on a bike, techmarine on a bike, chaplain on a bike, apothecary on a bike, chapter ancient on a bike, company champion on a biek, company veterans on bikes.
sergeant talion +14 points

 

good stuff:
Tigurius can give his prescience to another unit within 6"
'old' marines can now also be a lieutenant
roboute guilliman & stormravens still same point cost
hunter (AA tank) -30 points
marneus calgar -50 points
ironclad dreadnought -40 points (hint: combine this with "might of heroes" psychic power for T9 S14 6A!)
chaplain cassius -40 points
emperor's champion -33 points
sergeant chronus -23 points
captain in terminator armor -17 points
librarian -2 points
chapter champion -5 points
sternguard -1 point (with new strategem these guys are better at killing vehicles than missile launchers!)
bikes -6 points
attack bikes -10 points
inceptors -15 points
land speeders -10 points
drop pods -10 points
land speeder storm -10 points"

 

In theory, we don't get to take advantage of the points reductions in the SM codex; from the codex FAQ again:

 

"If I have a Blood Angels, Dark Angels or Space Wolves army, will I need to buy Codex: Space Marines to use my army?

 

You don’t have to. Other Space Marines factions not covered in the new codex will continue to use all the datasheets, rules and points values in the index until their own codex is released. Rules for new models not covered in the index (like the upcoming Redemptor Dreadnought) will be available in the box with the model and matched play points for these units will be made available online."

Edited July 25, 2017 by Arkhanist

[Panzer]

I honestly always wished we had the option of double assault cannon instead of double twin autocannon anyway. Love some *brrrrrt!*. Please GW, just do it!

Edited July 25, 2017 by sfPanzer

[Arkhanist]

That's also an option for the forgeworld mortis dread.

 

Or there's the forgeworld contemptor mortis which can take double kheres assault cannon @S7 and BS 2+

Edited July 25, 2017 by Arkhanist

[Charlo]

Don't understand Combi Grav on Sargent's at all.

 

That's baffling.

 

My bike squads are borked.