8th Ed BA Tactica.

Chaplain Gunzhard · July 26, 2017

The big drop in points for the Ironclad seems like the best thing in that list from a BA perspective... they are finally understanding that punchy dreads are situational and should cost less than a shooty dread that can always contribute without adding a transport or a lucky matchup. Let's hope the Furioso/DC Dreads come down a bunch...

Panzer · July 26, 2017

Any punchy unit that doesn't have the means to be in the opponents face turn 1 (or being tanky enough to wait for turn 2) should cost less than their shooty counterpart. GW gives them tons of special rules to make less models worth more in melee but then also pile up their cost so we can't bring as many models to begin with.

They will never learn that tho. ^^

Morticon · July 26, 2017

Part of me is hoping that GW reps and designers are keeping a watchful eye on threads like these. Offers a decent player insight- and it definitely gives us BA some hope.

Karhedron · July 26, 2017

Glad to see they have come down in points. 225 points for a squad with 6 T5 wounds and a pair of sawn-off heavy bolters was ludicrous. At 180 points they are still expensive but I might consider using them and they do fit the BA style of warfare.

Blindhamster · July 26, 2017

yeah the points drop for inceptors is good, i hope we see that appear in the pdf once the codex arrives, as right now, we dont get that point reduction ourselves.

Crimson Ghost IX · July 26, 2017

I hear that BlindHamster.

I am kinda interested in 12 point power fists, cheaper drop pods etc also.

Hopefully we won't wait too long whatever happens =)

Karhedron · July 26, 2017

62 Points for a MM attack bike looks pretty decent too. 4 T5 wounds makes them pretty durable and a squad of 3 packs a decent punch, almost worth having a Sanguinary Novitiate keep them company to patch up wounds.

Charlo · July 26, 2017

I think it said somewhere we can use the codex ones where updated in terms of points/ wargear and such. Especially as the rules will be in the box and updated matched play points will be online (like they've done with all the other Primaris).

It's more things like Tacticals/ Bikers and the older stuff where we're using the index.

Karhedron · July 26, 2017

Presumably we can always choose to use the Codex version of a unit rather than the Index version and simply play them as "Red Angels" if we wish to. It may mean losing out on some aura bonuses but it should be fine with the Imperium Keyword to stitch it all together. It is not like we have any BA Stratagems to lose out on.

To be fair, I can see why GW has adopted this approach. Some units in the codex went up in price and some went down. If BAs, DAs and SWs were allowed to simply pick and mix, it would give us an unfair advantage over Codex chapters as we could always choose the cheaper or more flexible version of the unit.

lazyj · July 26, 2017

Interesting to see that Marneus Calgar got a big points drop. This makes me cautiously optimistic that Dante will get similar treatment. I can see him coming down to 170-180 points, to be more in line with the Sanguinor.

Indefragable · July 26, 2017

In my personal, humble opinion, I would rather see Dante get more shinies to justify his point cost then the other way around. He's only been kicking :cuss and running out of bubblegum for 1500 years. Throw the (old) man a bone.

Edited July 26, 2017 by Indefragable

Charlo · July 26, 2017

Free command points at an absolute uninspired minimum to match his other Chapter Master contemporaries.

Spagunk · July 26, 2017

Or failing that, a unique stratagem that only he has. Maybe the ability to use a single stratagem twice in a round every player turn. For example you can use the 1CP reroll twice in the assault phase/shooting phase etc. But this ability can only be done once per player turn so you can't just keep doing two stratagems per phase.

Charlo · July 26, 2017

Hoooooly YES that would be amazing.

lazyj · July 26, 2017

Oh, I'm pretty sure that he'll also get some extra shinies. I mean, Calgar didn't lose anything, and they revised his points down quite a lot.

I'm expecting Dante to get a 2nd special rule, just as every other chapter master has, in addition to dropping 30-40 points.

Indefragable · July 27, 2017

At the risk of wandering into Mary Sue territory, I would like a few things for Dante:

Hidden Content

-some sort of Eternal Warrior-esque ability. Whether that's a Yarrick or RG like come-back-from-the-dead, or a Calgar-like reducing damage, I want something to show that he has managed to survive everythingcthe universe has ever thrown at him

-Slaanesh-like always-strikes-first rule

-the Death Mask of Sanguinius really should do something. It's long been a forgotten piece of warhead, mainly because of how pointless Fear has been in editions past. One to rectify! Something along the lines of enemies in 3" are -1 To Hit, or must re-roll successful hits, or heck even just let the -1Ld stack with other Desth Masks. I mean, we're only talking about :cuss -ing San-mutha- :cuss -ing-guinius, here. The mask bearing his likeness should be bad- :cuss !

-...alternatively, I've always thought Death Masks should provide some sort of invuln. In which case the invulns from Dante's Iron Halo and Mask would overlap, giving him either a 3++ or re-roll 1's when using his invuln save.

-and definitely some sort of Strategic buff. Refundable CP, or halving the cost of CP, being able to use the anti-charge one twice a turn, or something. More specifically, any BA units that arrive from Reserves after T1 gain -1 To Hit and/or can be placed 6" away from enemies instead of 9"

-Bonus: master-crafted inferno pistol. Because he's been leading a Chapter known for craftmanship for 1500 years

Alternatively to all of the above, he can use every Chapter Tactic once per game for himself because 1500 years has taught him a thing or two. Or he gets every Special Rule (equivalent).

As always I am not asking for all of the above, but some selection of them.

I just picked up Dante by Guy Haley, so I need to hone up on some background. I have always thought of Dante as an interesting character who is umatched in two opposite ends of the leadership spectrum. On one hand he is an unparalleled single combatant who has slain pretty much every epic foe imaginable. Definitely a lead-from-the-front type. On the other hand, not only has he lived for 1500 years, but he has been a Chapter Master for that long. That is a breadth of strategic experience no one in the Imperium has...for as Frater Antodeniel once pointed out, though Guilliman has been alive for 10k years, he's really only commanded forces forcmaybe 300years. Put that in perspective with Dante.

...however, his longevity is a bit of a curse to Dante. He knows how to kick :cuss like no other and he win battles like no other, but he has trouble connecting with his own brothers. He has outlived every single one of them. The only "person" in the Imperium he can possibly relate to is Bjorn and for a myriad of reasons that doesn't happen often at all. As such, he has trouble forming personal bonds with his men and genuinely struggles with building them up to be better warriors or imparting his centuries of wisdom to them. He doesn't know how to teach them how to kill a hive tyrant in 3 hits because he's done it so many times it's second nature and he doesn't have time to understand why others can't do it as well.

So on the TT, this would translate into a top 3 beat stick and stop 3 army-wide buffer, but not someone who necessarily has that many auras beyond "normal" Chapter Master ones. Grimnar might make Wolf Guard re-roll 1's To Wound (can't remember if that's actually his thing), Azrael may give 4++ to everyone in 6", but that's not Dante.

#speculation #wishlisting #headcanon

Maakeff · July 28, 2017

With apologies for being a spoilsport for enthusiasm (which is awesome), can we get this back on tactics and strategies, and off wishlisting? :-(

LutherMax · July 28, 2017

Maybe these posts should be moved to the Chapter Tactics Speculation thread? Strategems etc are related after all.

Karhedron · July 28, 2017

OK, back to the topic.

I am trying to work out a good Sanguinary Guard squad and which characters they need to accompany them. Currently I am thinking a 4 man squad, all with plasma pistols, 3 Glaives and a Fist (for tackling nastier targets). Is a 4-man squad enough? With 2 wounds each and a 2+ save, I am hoping they will be reasonably durable.

I want a couple of characters to accompany them, one of which will probably be the Warlord for the obvious reroll benefits he provides. I am not sure about taking a Captain since his reroll of 1s to hit is effectively wasted. On the other hand he is fairly cheap and pretty durable and hits hard. With a pistol and either a Relic Blade or Thunder Hammer, he will definitely boost the damage output of the squad.

I plan for a Sanguinary Priest to accompany them. The +1S is a big boost and if he can patch up the odd wound, even better. I can't decide whether to keep him cheap with just a power sword which will allow me to risk trying to revive dead models. Each SG revived is 44 points retrieved. I could make the Priest my Warlord and give him a Storm Shield to help keep him alive. He can always heal himself if he gets wounded.

Sanguinary Ancient is a possible alternative as a Warlord. Rerolling 1s to Wound will compliment the rerolls of the squad and really make them reliable damage dealers. With a 2+ save and no way to get an Invulnerable save, he suffers from also being a bit fragile to be the Warlord.

So in summary, is MSU feasible for SG or do I need more bodies? Captain or Ancient as the second character and who should be my Warlord?

LutherMax · July 28, 2017

I think Sanguinary Guard Ancient as Warlord because he's 2+ 4W (and give him the fist maybe) and Sanguinary Priest with default loadout plus pack for the revive.

And as many SG as you can afford in your list really. You're paying for the Characters to multiply, so the more bodies they affect, the more value you get from them.

Edited July 28, 2017 by LutherMax

dakkamasta · July 28, 2017

I'm planning on running 2 squads of 4 with an ancient. I still can't decide between a Sanguinary Priest or the Sanguinor as the warlord. The +1 attack is better than +1 strength in a lot of situations especially when it's with encarmine weapons. On top of that he is a really good beatstick in combat now and the ability to fall back and charge is gravy.

Can't really go wrong with either, the priest is a solid option and good budget warlord, and the ability to bring back models is handy aswell. I don't think there is a better choice it probably depends on what army you're facing.

Chaplain Gunzhard · July 28, 2017

So far I've found MSU is not best for SG, but I'm no big tournie player either FYI.

I put them with Dante (he gives them re-rolls) and made my warlord somebody else: Captain (Aphael) so to further spread the re-rolls on the table. I also took an Ancient because these guys are too expensive to lose to moral and the rerolling 1's to Wound is nice.

The issue with the Priest is... the healing sucks, especially for MSU. I miss old style FnP, this following movement turn business is a pain. Whenever I've had 4 SG only my opponents have focused fired on them, killing them all in a turn. If there is no unit the Priest cannot heal anyone and if there is no unit he cannot resurrect anyone. The +1 Strength is nice, but I found between the SG, the Ancient, and Dante (all on 32mm bases) it was real difficult to plan my assaults often enough that everyone could fight - so if I take a Priest I keep him naked now.

I was running 2 MSU SG side by side to maximize the auras from the Priest, Dante and the Ancient and this was a huge pain. It made movement so much more complicated, don't let your characters get up front but don't put them too far back... trying to make an assault means every darn separate unit has to succeed for everyone to get the buffs.

This is all much less an issue with a 10man SG... and it also means plenty of opportunity for the Priest to do some healing work.

LutherMax · July 28, 2017

Yeah I think 8-10 is minimum if you're investing in buffing them.

Aothaine · July 28, 2017

Completely agree. SG need to be in big units, as well as all of our other assault units like Death Company. The old days of trying to avoid over-kill are gone. With overwatch and being able to move and fire you need to make sure you have enough flesh to pay the price of charging.

There are some units that can avoid the "max" unit size requirements that our 3+ boys need and that is Terminators or units full of stormshields.

Just too much ap in the game now to rely on a 3+ save that can be modified to be a 6+ so easily.

For DC I would take a max sized squad with Lemartes + Priest and jumppacks. Leave them with Chainswords and bolt pisols.

Should be 17 models strong

On the charge you have the following from Death Company: 60 S5 Chainsword attacks, a mob that can charge and hold up multiple units, and two characters that can pile in on the edges.

The same concept can be done with the SG but will be more expensive and possibly not hit as hard. I think the SG are better at targeting stragglers and drawing fire. The problem is, I don't remember if you can give them stormshields.

Do we have a unit that can have Jumppacks, Stormshields & stormbolters? Because that unit.... would be awesome.

Edited July 28, 2017 by Aothaine

Karhedron · July 28, 2017

Thanks for the input, looks like I need to start playing the numbers game with SG.

Anyone got some more Plasma pistol arms?

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