8th Ed BA Tactica.

[Indefragable]

Still working out my full analysis (I haven't gotten to play anywhere near as much as normal this summer), but a couple thoughts:

 

-the best* unit to accompany Sanguinary Guard is the Sanguinor. +1A, can re-charge, and matches their clothes as well. Sang Guard get their re-rolls to boot

 

-...because the Sanguinor's +1A is useful for any beatstick unit

 

-the hidden efficiency of the Angelus boltgun is against TH/SS Terminators. With 2+/3++, the AP tops out at -1, dropping them to 3+/3++. Angelus (Angeli?) boltguns are Assault 2 AP-1allowing for surprisingly efficient use against such targets.

 

*YMMV and it's of course subjective

Edited July 28, 2017 by Indefragable

[Charlo]

So I noticed something today,sorry if in super late to the party on this but to get the extra damage on inferno pistols you need to be within 3" of an enemy, but unless you charge you can't move within 3" of an enemy...

 

Huge derp?

[LutherMax]

So I noticed something today,sorry if in super late to the party on this but to get the extra damage on inferno pistols you need to be within 3" of an enemy, but unless you charge you can't move within 3" of an enemy...

Huge derp?

You can be within 3" - just not within 1"

 

I think?

Edited July 28, 2017 by LutherMax

[Panzer]

So I noticed something today,sorry if in super late to the party on this but to get the extra damage on inferno pistols you need to be within 3" of an enemy, but unless you charge you can't move within 3" of an enemy...

 

Huge derp?

Why can't you move within 3" of an enemy? 1" is where you are in melee so 2" and 3" should be totally fine. Not that it's very practical tho. Inferno Pistols are pretty much trash unfortunately. ^^

[Chaplain Gunzhard]

Yeah I've found the Inferno pistol and Hand flamers to be totally useless. They're both 6" range... so very often they won't even be able to shoot during overwatch - my hand flamer has never shot in overwatch. They're both waaayy too expensive as well.  Plasma Pistol is cheaper than either, and better.

 

The HF's "auto hit" is still FAR worse than the old template, which was also auto-hit... it's D3 hits at 6", meh...

[Indefragable]

Yeah I've found the Inferno pistol and Hand flamers to be totally useless. They're both 6" range... so very often they won't even be able to shoot during overwatch - my hand flamer has never shot in overwatch. They're both waaayy too expensive as well. Plasma Pistol is cheaper than either, and better.

 

The HF's "auto hit" is still FAR worse than the old template, which was also auto-hit... it's D3 hits at 6", meh...

The hand flamer is (IMO) one of the worst items in the game at the moment. You get 1-3 random lasgun shots at 6" for 4x the cost of storm bolter. It's asinine. Make it 8" D6 S3, or 8" D3 S4 for 4-5 pts and it starts becoming worthwhile again.

 

The inferno pistol is derpy as heck at its current price, but at least it does what it says on the tin: pistol version of a melta gun. Trick is what the appropriate price point should be. Half a melta gun?

[Arkhanist]

You can also fire both pistols in your shooting phase if in combat. So after um, 2 rounds of close combat. Or you could fall back from a couple of inches and shoot them. So very situational.

 

We can only hope they get substantial price drops in the codex, along with angelus bolters (and sanguinary guard, for that matter). So much of our unique stuff just seems so underwhelming for its price, with the exception of jump vets. Yet BA were 'uber good' because of ravenspam. Sigh.

Edited July 28, 2017 by Arkhanist

[Panzer]

You can also fire both pistols in your shooting phase if in combat. So after um, 2 rounds of close combat. Or you could fall back from a couple of inches and shoot them. So very situational.

 

We can only hope they get substantial price drops in the codex, along with angelus bolters (and sanguinary guard, for that matter). So much of our unique stuff just seems so underwhelming for its price, with the exception of jump vets. Yet BA were 'uber good' because of ravenspam. Sigh.

The thing is, that if you attack (which we usually want) the enemy won't stay in close combat to get shot at by your pistols unless he can kill you anyway. Pistols are a purely defensive thing. You get charged, you stay&shoot and fight back in your turn.

[Aothaine]

So I noticed something today,sorry if in super late to the party on this but to get the extra damage on inferno pistols you need to be within 3" of an enemy, but unless you charge you can't move within 3" of an enemy...

 

Huge derp?

 

This are pistols right? If so they are meant to get the extra roll when in melee. Great for taking down Terminators without storm shields and assaulting big nasties.

[Panzer]

 

So I noticed something today,sorry if in super late to the party on this but to get the extra damage on inferno pistols you need to be within 3" of an enemy, but unless you charge you can't move within 3" of an enemy...

 

Huge derp?

 

This are pistols right? If so they are meant to get the extra roll when in melee. Great for taking down Terminators without storm shields and assaulting big nasties.

 

That's not how pistols work lol

Pistols allow you to shoot them even if you are within 1" of an enemy unit (aka melee) with the restriction having to shoot at the closest unit (aka the one you are in melee with). They don't give an extra roll or anything like that and units with Storm Shields are one of the worst targets for Inferno Pistols. :D

[Aothaine]

 

That's not how pistols work lol

 

Pistols allow you to shoot them even if you are within 1" of an enemy unit (aka melee) with the restriction having to shoot at the closest unit (aka the one you are in melee with). They don't give an extra roll or anything like that and units with Storm Shields are one of the worst targets for Inferno Pistols.

 

 

I was not clear enough. My apologies. What I meant is that they are melta, so they roll twice and pick highest while firing in melee. You put them on melee specialists so they can potentially wipe out what their are assaulting before the assault phase and can assault another unit. 

 

Ex. Charge a IG LOW tank. Most likely not going to kill that in the assault phase but even if it rolls away you should still be within range to get the melta effect off as most IG players play these types of tanks in a corner or against a wall surrounded by terrain.

 

They are expensive, but they have their uses. A hive tyrant will not want to stay anywhere near an assaulting unit with those guns. \

 

Also yeah, you do not use a unit with these to target a unit with storm shields. 

 

Here is another example: Death Company with chainswords and inferno pistols. They will shred hordes and then can also shoot down tanks and monsters with meltas and if charged you can pull off the models without the infernos making your opponent decide to either risk it and attack on his turn or retreat and usually not be able to fire or charge afterward. 

 

They have their uses and they are good imho.

 

I think many people are viewing the pieces individually. I view units/items as cogs that fit together and how it will flow in the battle.  Perhaps that is why I strongly advocate things like inferno pistols, land speeders, death company and other such units.

Edited July 28, 2017 by Aothaine

[Panzer]

Ah yeah that of course works. I always wanted to try a unit of Vanguard Vets with SS+Inferno Pistol back in 7th anyway, so maybe I'll do that just for giggles in 8th at one point....but I won't expect anything great from them. :D

[Chaplain Gunzhard]

Inferno pistol has some, very situational, uses yup - should cost way less in that case. Currently you're always better off taking a plasma pistol.

[sebs_evo7]

As an example of inferno pistol situational usefulness. My friend charged dante with a space wolf character, he wiffed his attacks and dante chopped him down to two wounds and then fried him in my shooting phase

 

Also to add that game my friend was running his lvo list so to give him a hard game i used a lot of company vet spam. Sgt with a power weapon and two vets with either plasma or melta. I think i had 5 seperate units drop in with dante to give re rolls. That's a lot of dakka and a lot of them made their charges but not something u would run in a friendly game

Edited July 29, 2017 by sebs_evo7

[Remtek]

OK, back to the topic.

 

I am trying to work out a good Sanguinary Guard squad and which characters they need to accompany them. Currently I am thinking a 4 man squad, all with plasma pistols, 3 Glaives and a Fist (for tackling nastier targets). Is a 4-man squad enough? With 2 wounds each and a 2+ save, I am hoping they will be reasonably durable.

 

I want a couple of characters to accompany them, one of which will probably be the Warlord for the obvious reroll benefits he provides. I am not sure about taking a Captain since his reroll of 1s to hit is effectively wasted. On the other hand he is fairly cheap and pretty durable and hits hard. With a pistol and either a Relic Blade or Thunder Hammer, he will definitely boost the damage output of the squad.

 

I plan for a Sanguinary Priest to accompany them. The +1S is a big boost and if he can patch up the odd wound, even better. I can't decide whether to keep him cheap with just a power sword which will allow me to risk trying to revive dead models. Each SG revived is 44 points retrieved. I could make the Priest my Warlord and give him a Storm Shield to help keep him alive. He can always heal himself if he gets wounded.

 

Sanguinary Ancient is a possible alternative as a Warlord. Rerolling 1s to Wound will compliment the rerolls of the squad and really make them reliable damage dealers. With a 2+ save and no way to get an Invulnerable save, he suffers from also being a bit fragile to be the Warlord.

 

So in summary, is MSU feasible for SG or do I need more bodies? Captain or Ancient as the second character and who should be my Warlord

 

Try running with a JP libby as warlord. Can give out 4++ and +1attack and you still get re-rolls in combat. Not sure what i think of them yet, i tried running a barebone 4man squad with plasma pistols, but the dmg was really lacking. 

[Nova_Dew]

Don't know if it's been brought up but Reivers, shields for DC or deep striking distractions?

 

Give the Reivers Bolt Carbines and Grav-shoots, deep strike them and same turn deep strike your death company behind them so that units have to go through or shoot up the reivers leaving your DC to jump then charge next turn?

[LutherMax]

Don't know if it's been brought up but Reivers, shields for DC or deep striking distractions?

 

Give the Reivers Bolt Carbines and Grav-shoots, deep strike them and same turn deep strike your death company behind them so that units have to go through or shoot up the reivers leaving your DC to jump then charge next turn?

Sounds good! The DC can still be targeted though, can't they? You can't really hide except behind completely solid terrain pieces in 8th.

[Panzer]

Yeah they could. It's pretty much impossible to hide a unit without real LoS blocking terrain or a really small unit behind something massive as a Rhino or Landraider.

 

Tho I noticed some people think for some reason that one can only shoot at the nearest target as in Shadow Wars. That's definitely not the case unless the unit has such a rule (as T'au Gun Drones).

[LutherMax]

Regardless it might be a good tactic to set up a dual layered assault like this, with the Reivers using their grenades before the jump unit leap over and wreck face...

[Panzer]

Oh yeah, more is always better. Just make sure they all are a threat at the same time.

A mistake my Space Wolve buddy often makes is to position his units in a way that always only one per turn is a serious threat so I can simply focus them down one after another. :P

[Nova_Dew]

Ah im mistaking the can't shoot characters if there is another unit closer, or I am thinking a few editions ago...

But then if they do ignore the Reivers and shoot up the DC, they will then have to deal with both the Reivers then the remains of the DC charging them... kind of an expensive way to do things though.

 

Kinda worried that at least until our Codex drops that we will end up with mostly the same list because of being an aura army

 

(Yes I know GW is a company and has to make money and the best way to sell the BA kits is to make us need them, but does not mean i can not lament being so locked into a theme, unless I am missing something.) 

[Karhedron]

Try running with a JP libby as warlord. Can give out 4++ and +1attack and you still get re-rolls in combat. Not sure what i think of them yet, i tried running a barebone 4man squad with plasma pistols, but the dmg was really lacking.

That's a great idea. I have a JP Libby who would fit the bill nicely. Against anything that hits with AP-3 or worse, I cast shield on them. Against more numerous but weaker foes, +1A. No way to give him an Invulnerable save though that I can think of sadly.

[LutherMax]

Shield is an invulnerable save, isn't it?

 

Both Libby and Priest compliment the SG well, but careful if you're making one your Warlord as they're only 3+ saves.

[Karhedron]

Shield is an invulnerable save, isn't it?

Yes but it only targets one unit so if the SG get it, he doesn't. I haven't spotted anything in the rules about Characters benefiting from unit buffs as they don't "join" units they way they did in older editions.

 

Unless I have missed something.

[LutherMax]

Oh I see what you mean - yes I think you're right there.