8th Ed BA Tactica.

[Spagunk]

Trying to come up with a good loadout for a sanguinary guard ancient I am building. What do you all think, Axe and Plasma or Fist and plasma?

 

I already have a bare bones sword and angelus and was trying to think of something a bit pricier. Fist is the closest you can get to a hammer for SG Ancient so I thought fist would be a good stand in.

 

Or should I go with infernus? They seem too overcost but it is possible that is fixed later?

[Crimson Ghost IX]

Trying to come up with a good loadout for a sanguinary guard ancient I am building. What do you all think, Axe and Plasma or Fist and plasma?

 

I already have a bare bones sword and angelus and was trying to think of something a bit pricier. Fist is the closest you can get to a hammer for SG Ancient so I thought fist would be a good stand in.

 

Or should I go with infernus? They seem too overcost but it is possible that is fixed later?

I would wait for the codex before deciding unless you have another of those sweet sweet banners or don't mind breaking em.

 

Fist is looking decent at 12 points if that holds for us too.

[Spagunk]

 

 

Trying to come up with a good loadout for a sanguinary guard ancient I am building. What do you all think, Axe and Plasma or Fist and plasma?

 

I already have a bare bones sword and angelus and was trying to think of something a bit pricier. Fist is the closest you can get to a hammer for SG Ancient so I thought fist would be a good stand in.

 

Or should I go with infernus? They seem too overcost but it is possible that is fixed later?

I would wait for the codex before deciding unless you have another of those sweet sweet banners or don't mind breaking em.

 

Fist is looking decent at 12 points if that holds for us too.

I've got three (counting the one I'm going to use). I also have a termie banner but I'm looking to make a real sweet termie ancient sometime in the future. Not sure when though.

Edited August 4, 2017 by Spagunk

[Crimson Ghost IX]

Don't open till Doomsday =) *nod.

Edited August 4, 2017 by Crimson Ghost IX

[Indefragable]

Trying to come up with a good loadout for a sanguinary guard ancient I am building. What do you all think, Axe and Plasma or Fist and plasma?

 

I already have a bare bones sword and angelus and was trying to think of something a bit pricier. Fist is the closest you can get to a hammer for SG Ancient so I thought fist would be a good stand in.

 

Or should I go with infernus? They seem too overcost but it is possible that is fixed later?

Personally, I've settled for:

-Plasma

-sword

-death mask

 

Plasma is hardly ever out of place, especially when it's cheaper (derp). Sword is there to save a few points and to make better use of Sang Priest bubble which you probably are bringing anyways. Death mask is there since he will be hanging back, and that way you have at least one mask no matter what.

[LutherMax]

As I built my SG squads in 7th, both the banner bearers have fists and have now become my Ancients by default, for good or ill... Edited August 4, 2017 by LutherMax

[Vaughn]

Bit miffed that Blood Angel intercessor Sergeants can't use power swords. It's not a massive issue, and the codex proper hasn't come out yet.

 

 

But still, kinda annoying

[Xenith]

Trying to come up with a good loadout for a sanguinary guard ancient I am building. What do you all think, Axe and Plasma or Fist and plasma?

 

I already have a bare bones sword and angelus and was trying to think of something a bit pricier. Fist is the closest you can get to a hammer for SG Ancient so I thought fist would be a good stand in.

 

Or should I go with infernus? They seem too overcost but it is possible that is fixed later?

The only hand that fits the banner is Angelus, as I recall, but if that isn't an issue, plasma is a good choice. Infernus is expensive and not great right now. I'd go plasma then magnetise the other arm for axe/sword, with preference going to the axe, it's a better weapon.

[Spagunk]

The only hand that fits the banner is Angelus, as I recall, but if that isn't an issue, plasma is a good choice. Infernus is expensive and not great right now. I'd go plasma then magnetise the other arm for axe/sword, with preference going to the axe, it's a better weapon.

I can actually work around that issue with the banner arm, so plasma should be good. Still kinda wish they gave us more in the kit though as I have to convert a couple to fit right. The DC kit doesn't have this issue and I'm flooded with pistol hands.

 

I just thought with fists being so close to hammers, they'd be pretty effective overall. And with the price decrease in new codexes, they are more points effective too.

[LutherMax]

The only problem with fists (and hammers) is the -1 to hit, but they're still much better than in 7th IMO due to the scrapping of Initiative / Unwieldy.

[Karhedron]

For the SG Ancient, I would probably say Fist if you are going to be near the Warlord, Sword if you are going to be near a Priest but not the Warlord and Axe if you are going to be near neither (although I cannot think why you wouldn't have at least one of those characters hanging out with your SG ).

[Silverson]

I took a fist of one of my death company before I sent them off to be painted but at 8 points less I wish I kept it

[Xenith]

Well both fist and encarmine weapons do d3 damage, right? So the difference is in the hit and wound rolls. As per karhedron, if you're supporting with a priest, fist and axe are wasted vs T4, Dante makes a fist a good option.

 

I'd say you should probably have one fist between the san guard, ancient, and other characters, so if there isn't one on your regular guardians, give it to the ancient.

[Karhedron]

Hmm, power fists are now cheaper than Encarmine weapons. SG can reroll all misses when near the Warlord so the -1 to Hit is not such a big deal as 75% of your attacks will hit and against T4 targets you will be wounding on a 4+. DoSG actually make good power fist caddies? Edited August 4, 2017 by Karhedronuk

[Indefragable]

How are power fists cheaper than Glaive Encarmine?

 

Fists are 20

E-Axe is 16

E-sword is 13.

 

Any changes that happen to Codex Space Marines do NOT happen for us as we must use the Index Imperium 1 unless otherwise specifically FAQ'd or stated by GW.

[Spagunk]

How are power fists cheaper than Glaive Encarmine?

 

Fists are 20

E-Axe is 16

E-sword is 13.

 

Any changes that happen to Codex Space Marines do NOT happen for us as we must use the Index Imperium 1 unless otherwise specifically FAQ'd or stated by GW.

 

Fists drop to 12 points in the new space marine dex as well as the upcoming chaos dex. Trend (albeit a weak one) is for PFists to go down globally so there is hope.

 

Also, some places are nice enough to let you use the prices from new, similar codexes but YMMV.

Edited August 5, 2017 by Spagunk

[Karhedron]

Yes, I was working on the basis of Fists going to 12 points. Of course Encarmine weapons might become cheaper (we can but hope). Either way, assuming we get 12 point fists, are they worth considering on SG since they get a built-in reroll just for hanging with the Warlord? Sames reasoning as plasma pistols. Although they are not the signature weapon, they work well and may be cheaper (soon).

[virus646]

Fists are 12 points. If you are using equipment from the space marines point value data sheets, you should use the one from the codex. You always have to use the latest updated version unless it's not possible. For exemple, a venerable dread with two autocannons is not available in the newest codex. So you use the datasheet for the old venerable dread + newest cost for twin autocannon in the new one.

I'm curious why you guys think otherwise?

[Indefragable]

Fists are 12 points. If you are using equipment from the space marines point value data sheets, you should use the one from the codex. You always have to use the latest updated version unless it's not possible. For exemple, a venerable dread with two autocannons is not available in the newest codex. So you use the datasheet for the old venerable dread + newest cost for twin autocannon in the new one.

 

I'm curious why you guys think otherwise?

We are Codex: Blood Angels, not Codex: Space Marines, Blood Angels supplement (well, for now, anyways). As such, we only have the Index: Imperium 1 to go off of until officially stated otherwise. Until C:BA comes out, or FAQs/Errata amends said Index, it doesn't matter what happens I other books, no matter how similar they may seem.

 

Now, if your group is cool and let's you use C:SM for different items, thats cool and roll with it. And yes, the trends point to things getting amended, so it's a good bet that things will change for us as well....but until it's in writing, it's a favor from your opponent.

 

Of course I am firmly in the "only-in-the-official-rules" camp, so take that as you will.

[Chaplain Gunzhard]

Didn't they comment about this issue specifically on the community page? ...I just vaguely remember something like, you "don't have to use the new books" if you don't want to buy them but you can if you choose...

[TheHarrower]

Didn't they comment about this issue specifically on the community page? ...I just vaguely remember something like, you "don't have to use the new books" if you don't want to buy them but you can if you choose...

 

I remember reading that somewhere too. I could swear it said to use the equipment costs from the new Space Marines Codex.

[Arkhanist]

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/07/05/codexes-your-questions-answered-july-5gw-homepage-post-2/

 

I just bought Index: Imperium 1 – what should I do with it?
You’ll want to keep hold of your index. Codex: Space Marines doesn’t include rules for playing with Blood Angels, Dark Angels, Space Wolves, Deathwatch or Grey Knights armies, so you’ll still need Index: Imperium 1 to play with those. You’ll also need it for using some of the more unusual models such as the 30th Anniversary Space Marine, the Legion of the Damned and the Terminus Ultra Land Raider.

 

If I have a Blood Angels, Dark Angels or Space Wolves army, will I need to buy Codex: Space Marines to use my army?

You don’t have to. Other Space Marines factions not covered in the new codex will continue to use all the datasheets, rules and points values in the index until their own codex is released. Rules for new models not covered in the index (like the upcoming Redemptor Dreadnought) will be available in the box with the model and matched play points for these units will be made available online.

 

They then go on to say:

 

Are the rules changing?
Yes, many units’ rules in their codexes will alter from those in the indexes. Sometimes this is to better represent the miniatures and the background, sometimes to balance the game, and sometimes to better fit with the army’s new special rules in the codex itself. In all cases, these will then supersede the rules for that datasheet in the index book.

 

Are the points changing?
Yes, some units’ points for matched play games will change. This sometimes represents feedback from you guys playing games out there in the world, more playtesting, or sometimes because the unit now has new abilities or synergizes differently with new units and abilities in the codex.

 

So codex: space marines chapters must use the datasheets and points from the codex; even if they've gone up. Any units or detachments of those, you use the codex rules & points, because it's been supposedly balanced as a complete book. They do allow C:SM units that aren't in the codex to use the index datasheets (with codex points if available) if you have such a legacy unit.

 

Blood angels though are not codex: space marines, we're our own faction. If you want to play as 'red marines' fair enough - but the Q&A is pretty explicit that officially BA and other non-codex chapters are not covered by the codex at all but continue to use the index sheets and points for now - the index list of what units we can take is also explicit that we use index datasheets, unless otherwise added to, e.g. as by the forgeworld FAQ or the primaris pdf. Given the same points reductions are also broadly in the chaos SM book, it seems likely we will get similar - WHEN our codex comes.

 

Of course, how you want to house-rule it with your mates or FLGS to deal with the clear balance issues while some armies have codexes and others don't is up to you.

[Booley]

That was posted July 5th. Posted July 22nd was this: https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/07/22/the-other-angels-of-death-and-codex-space-marines/
 

Blood Angels, Dark Angels and Space Wolves army lists in Index: Imperium 1 all let you use units from the Space Marines section of that book. If you own the new codex, you should feel free to use those same units’ Datasheets from that book instead, until your own codex comes out.

 

The question comes down to whether you should use the points from the same book as the datasheet, or use the datasheet from the codex with the points from the index. To me, it doesn't make any sense to be pulling points from a different book than the datasheet. If we look at say, Hellblasters, they gained new options with the codex, so clearly we need to pull their points values from the codex, since they don't exist in the index at all. It would make the most sense for that to carry over to any other unit that's being used from the C:SM book.

[Panzer]

You always use the most up to date points. GW listed points seperate from Datasheets for a reason.

You will encounter it more often in the future that things have different points than in the book you got the Datasheet from thanks to the Generals Handbook.

[Arkhanist]

For those new weapon options or units such as the hellblaster squad, you'd use the datasheet in the box, and the points from the primaris pdf - which I believe are the same as in the codex. Or the datasheet from the codex, which should be the same as the one in the box for such primaris units. That's not the issue.

 

As they say in the text you link:

If your Chapter of choice is that of another bloodline – those of Sanguinius, Russ or the Lion – you’re still going to get some new stuff with this release – like the massive Redemptor Dreadnought and the terrifying Reiver shock troops.

 

The issue is when you're using a datasheet for an old unit from the index, but wanting the points from the codex, e.g. a BA storm bolter/fist terminator squad as the index list says we can take. There's nothing in your article that says you get to use the reduced codex points, only the datasheets, with the strong implication it's for primaris releases. They did previously explicitly say we don't use the codex points as we're not a codex chapter, so I'm not seeing how it's unclear.

 

With your opponent's permission, not a problem, obvs. But it is a house rule. The updated points replace previous lists for the relevant army, yes - But BA are not a codex: space marines army, even if we share some commonalities like Primaris. You can't pick and choose like that - you'd also have to give up all BA characters & units and play as 'camouflage scheme' ultramarines or whatever.