8th Ed BA Tactica.

[tychobi]

YAY POWER CREEP!  Yes codex marines might be more efficient right now (again) and as far as I can tell we pay index prices for power fists in competitive play but we do not play blood angels because they are cheap.  Or efficient.  We play them because we are the best.  

 

As for primaris? The spawn of smurfs and has no place in a proper Blood Angels force.  Your opinion my differ and we shall have to hash it out on the battlefield.  Die well. 

[tkni]

The question comes down to whether you should use the points from the same book as the datasheet, or use the datasheet from the codex with the points from the index. To me, it doesn't make any sense to be pulling points from a different book than the datasheet. If we look at say, Hellblasters, they gained new options with the codex, so clearly we need to pull their points values from the codex, since they don't exist in the index at all. It would make the most sense for that to carry over to any other unit that's being used from the C:SM book.

 

I guess a decent example would be: can a tactical sgt take melta bombs?

 

The C:SM errata added them as an option; AFAIK no similar change has been made to I:I1. By the WC article, we *can* use the C:SM tactical squad datasheet and so the MB option is available to us.

 

Though, as always, a gaming group where this is an issue probably has bigger ones to deal with.

[Panzer]

 

The question comes down to whether you should use the points from the same book as the datasheet, or use the datasheet from the codex with the points from the index. To me, it doesn't make any sense to be pulling points from a different book than the datasheet. If we look at say, Hellblasters, they gained new options with the codex, so clearly we need to pull their points values from the codex, since they don't exist in the index at all. It would make the most sense for that to carry over to any other unit that's being used from the C:SM book.

 

I guess a decent example would be: can a tactical sgt take melta bombs?

 

The C:SM errata added them as an option; AFAIK no similar change has been made to I:I1. By the WC article, we *can* use the C:SM tactical squad datasheet and so the MB option is available to us.

 

Though, as always, a gaming group where this is an issue probably has bigger ones to deal with.

 

No that wouldn't be a good example. Options on the Datasheet and point costs are something entirely different in 8th.

[Valistan]

Blood Angels (Stepan Zotov, Russia) took 4th place at the ETC 2017! His list  you can find on the 2:06 of this video

[Chaplain Gunzhard]

Interesting... though it kinda looks like another cherry-picked "BA" list, 40 conscripts and a bunch of other odd (non-BA) units, still more BA than some lists I guess.

[Valistan]

Interesting... though it kinda looks like another cherry-picked "BA" list, 40 conscripts and a bunch of other odd (non-BA) units, still more BA than some lists I guess.

Below the version of this list for the Team ETC 2017 (Team Russia took 1st place) without 40 conscripts:

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

 

+ TEAM: Russia

 

+ PLAYER 8: Stepan Zotov

 

+ PLAYER TOURNEYKEEPER PROFILE: Stepan Zotov, 1556

 

+ ARMY FACTION: Imperium

 

+ TOTAL COMMAND POINTS: 8

 

+ TOTAL ARMY POINTS: 2000 pts

 

+ ARMY FACTIONS USED: Blood Angels, Inquisition, Officio Assasinorum, Astra Telepathica

 

+ TOTAL REINFORCEMENT POINTS: Not Applicable

 

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

 

== Supreme Command Detachment == Blood Angels, Astra Telepathica [400pts] +1 CP

 

HQ1: Commander Dante [215pts] – WARLORD (Tenacious Survivor)

 

HQ2: Mephiston, Lord of Death, Blood Boil, Shield of Sanguinius, Unleash Rage [145pts]

 

HQ3: Primaris Psyker (28), Force Stave (12), Terrifying Visions, Gaze of the Emperor [40pts]

 

== Vanguard Detachment == Inquisition, Officio Assasinorum, Blood Angels [317pts] +1CP

 

HQ4: Ordo Hereticus Inquisitor (55), Storm Bolter (2), Psyker, Terrify [57pts]

 

Elites1: Culexus Assasin [85pts]

 

Elites2: Eversor Assasin [70pts]

 

Elites3: 3 man Company Veteran Squad with Jump Packs (57), 3 Chainswords, 3 Storm Bolter (6) <Blood Angels> [63pts]

 

Elites4: 2 man Company Veteran Squad with Jump Packs (38), 2 Chainswords, 2 Storm Bolter (4) <Blood Angels> [42pts]

 

==Batallion Detachment== Blood Angels [1283pts] +3CP

 

HQ5: Captain with Jump Pack (93), Combi-Melta (19), Thunder Hammer (25) <Blood Angels> [137pts]

 

HQ6: Primaris Lieutenant (70), Master Crafted Auto Bolt Rifle (4) <Blood Angels> [74pts]

 

Troops1: 5 man Scout Squad (55), 2 Sniper Rifles (8) <Blood Angels> [63pts]

 

Troops2: 5 man Scout Squad (55), 2 Sniper Rifles (8) <Blood Angels> [63pts]

 

Troops3: 5 man Scout Squad (55), 1 Sniper Rifle (4) <Blood Angels> [59pts]

 

Elites5: 5 man Company Veteran Squad with Jump Packs (95), 4 Chainswords, Storm Shield (5), 5 Storm Bolter (10) <Blood Angels> [110pts]

 

Elites6: 5 man Company Veteran Squad with Jump Packs (95), 4 Chainswords, Storm Shield (5), 5 Storm Bolter (10) <Blood Angels> [110pts]

 

FA1: 5 man Assault Squad with Jump Packs (80), 2 Meltaguns (34), Sergeant: 2 Chainswords, Melta Bomb (5) <Blood Angels> [119pts]

 

FA2: 5 man Assault Squad with Jump Packs (80), 2 Meltaguns (34), Sergeant: 2 Chainswords, Melta Bomb (5) <Blood Angels> [119pts]

 

HS1: 5 man Devastator Squad (65), 2 Lascannons (50), Armorium Cherub (5) <Blood Angels> [120pts] in DT1

 

DT1: Razorback (65), Twin-Linked Heavy Bolter (17) <Blood Angels> [82pts]

 

HS2: 5 man Devastator Squad (65), 3 Lascannons (75), Armorium Cherub (5) <Blood Angels> [145pts] in DT2

 

DT2: Razorback (65), Twin-Linked Heavy Bolter (17) <Blood Angels> [82pts]

 

ARMY REINFORCEMENT POINTS : 0

 

ARMY REINFORCEMENT FACTION : NONE

[Morticon]

Grats to him.

Another "BA" list

 

Edit - i like the second list more. Im curious to see how it it plays. 

Edited August 13, 2017 by Morticon

[Valistan]

Edit - i like the second list more. Im curious to see how it it plays. 

In his video he said that the main thing is  flexibility of the list. His army can fight mele and shoot. In addition, it was a big surprise for opponents. They did not know how it is played and made many mistakes.

Edited August 13, 2017 by Valistan

[Indefragable]

Interesting to see how useful Jump Vets with storm bolters are proving. They seem incredibly efficient for their points cost.

[Spagunk]

Interesting to see how useful Jump Vets with storm bolters are proving. They seem incredibly efficient for their points cost.

Just looking at it, it's actually not a bad idea. Since they made them rapid 2 for storm bolters, I've been slowly thinking about what it would take to pump some more into my units.

Hell, I may end up doing this rather than my gunslinger van vets I had been planning to do. 4 shots at 12 and 3 attacks is pretty good imo. Cheap too!

Edited August 14, 2017 by Spagunk

[LutherMax]

I'm liking the idea of Stormbolters too!

 

A terminator squad with assault cannon pumps out a lot of shots and can teleport within rapid fire range...

[Remtek]

Been running stormbolter vets in multiple games. They are quite good, however i do think that last list will struggle in a non team event. Still very creative list and strange lists do help as people have not practiced against it. 

[Spagunk]

Has anyone added any redemptors or hellblasters to their list? Any synergy with our assault units (since they provide long range firepower)?

 

I am really interested in getting a heavy plasma cannon hellblaster squad so I have a 24-30-36 firebase to help take pressure off my assault line. But that redemptor looks really good (for long range and short) and is very mobile. Seems like it would match our Baal Preds with the amount of dakka it can do (with the rotor cannon that is).

[Karhedron]

I have added a Hellblaster squad to my Space Wolves (who share our predilection for getting close to the enemy) and I have been impressed by the results. As long as you have a Captain nearby to hold their hands when they overcharge, their firepower and flexibility is pretty great. The burned down a Hellbrute pretty quickly in my last game.

 

However I would say that the original Rapid Fire variant is better than either of the other options and also has the advantage of being the cheapest. The assault version is weaker and the difference between S7 and S8 when overcharging is significant if you want to tackle vehicles with them. The Assault version can be fired after advancing but with a -1 to hit when doing so, overcharging is too risky IMHO. The Heavy version is even worse as they really need to stand still. The extra 6" range is negligible as the RF version can simple move 6" and fire without penalty. The RF version also gets to double-tap within 15" which is a big deal.

 

A 5-man squad costs just 2ppm more than a Company Vet squad with plasma guns. For those 2 points, you get twive the number of wounds and attacks, better leadership and an extra 6" range.

 

In short, I would always take the RF version of Hellblasters. If you really want a highly mobile squad, then the assault version are OK and have a slight edge in the 16-24" range bracket. I really cannot see the point of the Heavy version though. You would be better off getting a Plasma devastator squad instead IMHO.

 

The Redemptor looks tasty and I may well splash out on one as I don't have any assault-cannon razorbacks but the Redemptor looks like it can fulfill a similar niche.

[Spagunk]

I have added a Hellblaster squad to my Space Wolves (who share our predilection for getting close to the enemy) and I have been impressed by the results. As long as you have a Captain nearby to hold their hands when they overcharge, their firepower and flexibility is pretty great. The burned down a Hellbrute pretty quickly in my last game.

 

However I would say that the original Rapid Fire variant is better than either of the other options and also has the advantage of being the cheapest. The assault version is weaker and the difference between S7 and S8 when overcharging is significant if you want to tackle vehicles with them. The Assault version can be fired after advancing but with a -1 to hit when doing so, overcharging is too risky IMHO. The Heavy version is even worse as they really need to stand still. The extra 6" range is negligible as the RF version can simple move 6" and fire without penalty. The RF version also gets to double-tap within 15" which is a big deal.

 

A 5-man squad costs just 2ppm more than a Company Vet squad with plasma guns. For those 2 points, you get twive the number of wounds and attacks, better leadership and an extra 6" range.

 

In short, I would always take the RF version of Hellblasters. If you really want a highly mobile squad, then the assault version are OK and have a slight edge in the 16-24" range bracket. I really cannot see the point of the Heavy version though. You would be better off getting a Plasma devastator squad instead IMHO.

 

The Redemptor looks tasty and I may well splash out on one as I don't have any assault-cannon razorbacks but the Redemptor looks like it can fulfill a similar niche.

RE: Hellblaster squad. Doesn't their plasma have a -4ap versus -3 with regular plasma? Seems like a huge way to basically guarantee that units die.

Edited August 14, 2017 by Spagunk

[Blindhamster]

I've used hellblasters, they're very good vs heavy infantry as they have high strength and very good AP. However their damage is only 1 as standard, which means they're only viable vs vehicles if overcharged - overcharging is risky even with a captain nearby vs some enemies (alpha legion, raven guard etc).

 

They're also high priority as a target in every game I've seen, so don't be surprised if they don't do a lot before getting killed.

[Karhedron]

RE: Hellblaster squad. Doesn't their plasma have a -4ap versus -3 with regular plasma? Seems like a huge way to basically guarantee that units die.

I suppose the extra AP is a point in favour of the Heavy Incinerator but plasma cannon Devastators still win out with weight of fire as they will get 4D3 shots per turn vs the fixed 5 of the Hellblasters. I still feel that the greater mobility of the regular Hellblaster squad is better and that their damage potential is still much higher within 15" due to the double tap.

[Karhedron]

overcharging is risky even with a captain nearby vs some enemies (alpha legion, raven guard etc).

True but the Chapter/Legion Traits only apply to certain units. They do not apply to most vehicles so you can overcharge to your heart's content. Against 1W infantry, overcharging only gets you wounding on a 2+ rather than a 3+ as the extra wound is wasted so it is probably not worth overcharging anyway against them. It is really only Terminators and Bikers that become significantly more durable vs plasma with the -1 to Hit (and other Primaris Marines ).

 

They're also high priority as a target in every game I've seen, so don't be surprised if they don't do a lot before getting killed.

The same is true of any high damage output unit, it will scare your opponent into directing a lot of firepower its way. Hellblasters are no better or worse in this regard than a lot of other units. The important thing is to provide your enemy with a range of threats so that he has no way of avoiding all of your heavy firepower.

 

What I find valuable about Hellblasters is their ability to advance with the main body of the army. This provides some close fire-support for hunting down units that might try to hide out of LOS of more static units like Devastators. It also helps to get them within the 15" double-tap range where they can really unleash some damage.

[Ceril]

In regards to the ETC list and storm bolter+chainsword veterans, I think the format of ETC and opponent selection favours this style heavily. He has great anti infantry with enough big guns to take out key "big units". Either vehicles/Monstrous/knights/whatever.

 

ETC was roughly both team captains selects one of their 8lists, usually a sturdy that does okay/draws against many type of lists. Then both simultaneously reveal the lists. These are the two defenders. Now the opposing captains randomizes two lists and has to reveal both and select one of them to be the attacker. The other list goes back into the pool. They keep going like this until all 8 players have an opponent. This gives a strong tactical element to list building and some players/lists roles might be to just tie (10-10) all games over the event. While for other lists they look to steamroll for max points (20-0). I'm not sure what the role the BA list had, but I find it quite interesting. The delivery method for Mephiston looks a bit weak, but I'll probably play test as I have all the models except for the Psykers.

[Morticon]

In regards to the ETC list and storm bolter+chainsword veterans, I think the format of ETC and opponent selection favours this style heavily. He has great anti infantry with enough big guns to take out key "big units". Either vehicles/Monstrous/knights/whatever.

 

ETC was roughly both team captains selects one of their 8lists, usually a sturdy that does okay/draws against many type of lists. Then both simultaneously reveal the lists. These are the two defenders. Now the opposing captains randomizes two lists and has to reveal both and select one of them to be the attacker. The other list goes back into the pool. They keep going like this until all 8 players have an opponent. This gives a strong tactical element to list building and some players/lists roles might be to just tie (10-10) all games over the event. While for other lists they look to steamroll for max points (20-0). I'm not sure what the role the BA list had, but I find it quite interesting. The delivery method for Mephiston looks a bit weak, but I'll probably play test as I have all the models except for the Psykers.

 

 

Thanks for clarifying! Makes a lot more sense now. 

[Valistan]

In regards to the ETC list and storm bolter+chainsword veterans, I think the format of ETC and opponent selection favours this style heavily. He has great anti infantry with enough big guns to take out key "big units". Either vehicles/Monstrous/knights/whatever.

I want to add a few key points from the video.

1) The main strength of the army is the opportunity to hit from the reserve.

As rule, the alpha strike of the enemy is wasted. Our troops on the table stay in cover and play the role of anvil. 

We inflict the first serious blow in direction unexpected by enemy. Our deep striking units shoot, then charge in melee.

2) Heroes have important strike potential. They allow us to relive the deaths of many troops and win.

3) BA have powerful magic. All powers are very useful. Mephiston is excellent. Inquisitor's psychic power help us to deny enemies overwatch.

4) Opponents are not waiting for close combat. This, together with shooting allows us to cause great damage to the enemy. 

5) The Army is very mobile.

Sorry for my terrible English

[Valistan]

Below you can see a another BA list of Russian player Stepan Zotov. His team take 1st place in big team-tournament "Black Winter 2018" (Moscow, 112 players).

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+ TEAM: Тайная Команда
+ PLAYER 8: StepanZotov – «Бригада С»
+ ARMY FACTION: Imperium
+ TOTAL COMMAND POINTS: 13
+ TOTAL ARMY POINTS: 2000pts
+ ARMY FACTIONS USED: Blood Angels, White Scars, Ultramarines, Black Templars
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

== Supreme Command Detachment == Space Marines (White Scars, Ultramarines, Black Templars) [257pts] +1CP

HQ1: Master of the Storm: Librarian on Bike (119), Force Stave (8), Bolter, Twin-Linked Boltgun (2) [129pts] (White Scars) – Psychic Powers: Psychic Scourge, Nullzone. Relic – Armour Indomitus
HQ2: Master of Precision: Lieutenant (60), Master-Crafted Bolter (3) [63pts] (Ultramarines) - Warlord (Storm of Fire)
HQ3: Master of Divine Abhorrence: Techmarine (45), Conversion Beamer (20), Bolter, Chainsword [65pts] (Black Templars)

==Brigade Detachment== Blood Angels [1743pts] +9CP

HQ1: Herald of Dante: Captain with Jump Pack (93), Combi-Melta (19), Thunder Hammer (21) [133pts]
HQ2: Astorath, Redeemer of the Lost (143) [143pts]
HQ3: Mephiston, Lord of Death, Psychic Powers: Blood Boil, Shield of Sanguinius, Unleash Rage [145pts]

Troops1: 5 man Scout Squad (55), 5 Chainswords, Bolter (Sergeant) [55pts]
Troops2: 5 man Scout Squad (55), 5 Chainswords, Bolter (Sergeant) [55pts]
Troops3: 5 man Scout Squad (55), Heavy Bolter (10), 4 Chainswords, Bolter (Sergeant) [65pts]
Troops4: 5 man Tactical Squad (65), Missile Launcher (25), Chainsword (Sergeant) [90pts]
Troops5: 5 man Tactical Squad (65), Lascannon (25), Chainsword (Sergeant) [90pts]
Troops6: 5 man Tactical Squad (65), Lascannon (25), Chainsword (Sergeant) [90pts]

Elites1: 10 man Death Company with Jump Pack (200), Thunder Hammer (16), 9 Bolters, 9 Chainswords [216pts]
Elites2: Company Ancient with Jump Pack (72), Bolter [72pts]
Elites3: 5 man Company Veteran Squad with Jump Packs (95), 4 Chainswords, Storm Shield (5), 5 Storm Bolter (10) [110pts]

FA1: 5 man Assault Squad with Jump Packs (80), 2 Meltaguns (34), 2 Chainswords (Sergeant) [119pts]
FA2: Attack Bike (35), Heavy Bolter (10), Twin-Linked Bolter (2) [47pts]
FA3: Attack Bike (35), Heavy Bolter (10), Twin-Linked Bolter (2) [47pts]

HS1: Hunter (90) [90pts]
HS2: Hunter (90) [90pts]
HS3: Hunter (90) [90pts]

 I am very interested to know your opinion about this list Edited January 19, 2018 by Valistan

[Morticon]

Whats the use of mixing CT like that? Dont you lose the benefits? 

Also, grats to the player!!! I have no idea what to do with that list or how it would work :( 

[Are Verlo]

The brigade makes sense. Perhaps he took the supreme command to unlock relics from the chapters or vanilla SM stratagems.

 

I don’t know what stratagems that would be

 

Or it might be due to models owned/painted? I have fielded «sub-par» units for those reasons since I’m a slow painter

[Charlo]

He wouldn't unlock relics for multiple chapters by mixing the chapters into one detatchment. I'm pretty sure you can't even have multiple chapters in the same one....