8th edition MathHammer

[LuisMars]

Force Staves or Halberds? Looking at your mathhammer, they perform equal, but does it account for armor saves? If so, then Force Staves seem like the number one choice for general purpose stuff since they also add 1 to the invuln save if in melee.

The only thing I calculated is the average number of wounds a model can do when it attacks. So yes, Staves over Halberds.

[the jeske]

dont have the rules on me, but do staffs stack with storm shields ?

[Captain Coolpants]

dont have the rules on me, but do staffs stack with storm shields ?

Good point! Librarians can take Shields now lol

[Gentlemanloser]

Yup and they stack.

 

SM GK Libbies can have 2++ in CC now. ;)

 

Draigo must have left a few SS laying around in a dusty corner in the Librarium.

[Adeptus]

I wouldn't go nuts modelling storm shields onto your librarians though, I don't think they'll make the cut into the codex.

[Captain Coolpants]

Agreed. It'll never stay in our own dex (if we get our own dex that is).

[Confused Word Bearer]

 

Force Staves or Halberds? Looking at your mathhammer, they perform equal, but does it account for armor saves? If so, then Force Staves seem like the number one choice for general purpose stuff since they also add 1 to the invuln save if in melee.

 

The only thing I calculated is the average number of wounds a model can do when it attacks. So yes, Staves over Halberds.

Well, dang, I'd thought that Halberds would do slightly better than Staves because of their AP-2, but apparently not? Huh.

[LuisMars]

I finally got an idea about how to measure the defense efficiency, simply take the average point loss per round. You can check the melee results here.

 

In order to combine all the information for an entry and compare all the models you have to do: (wounds_per_point) / (points_lost). I'll make a proper table for it soon.

[Enxos]

Doing what needs to be done. This is really great and thank you!

[Valerian]

I've added a link to this thread in the Tactical section of the Resources thread that is pinned to the top of this forum.  Well done, LuisMars - appreciate your effort here.

[Ticaliation]

 

I did some ranged weapon calculations, you can find them here.

 

 

buddy I tried some checks on calculations and correct me if I am wrong..but I think there is a mistake for Psycannons no? you omitted Psycannons -1AP no? I think you considered 4 guys shooting. for example vs Terminator .....so Psycanonn 16shots >> halved for hitting on 4+ (-1BS for moving right?) >> then multiplied 2/3 (wounding on 3+) which is 5.3333 wounds before armor saves. and then I think you put *1/6 for terminator armous save, not *1/3. I checked the same logic for Stormbolters and Psilencers and I got the same results as you here

[LuisMars]

Thanks for finding a mistake! I think is fixed. It was picking the wrong save, it has to pick the maximum value in terms of attributes or the minimum value in terms of %.

[Gentlemanloser]

How would 20 point Fallen (Combi Bolter, BP and Power Swords) match up to 21 point Strikes?

 

Shooting would be similar, with Fallen having Pistols they could use when locked in CC (and reroll 1's if stationary).

 

The Strikes Nemesis Force Swords have Dd3, but the Fallen get an extra Attack.

[Waking Dreamer]

When you got t time could you update the mathhammer for NDKGMs?

 

1. Great Sword, Dual Dreadfists and Great Hammer w/ WS2+.

2. Heavy Psycannons and Gatling Psilencers w/ BS2+.

3. Heavy Psycannons and Gatling Psilencers w/ S+1 and AP-1.

Edited August 5, 2017 by Waking Dreamer

[LuisMars]

I will update it soon!

[Adeptus]

Are the NDK GMs Heavy Support choices or HQ choices?

[Gentlemanloser]

HQ

[Ninjoe42]

Can I just ask, what does % Model Killed actually measure? Chance of killing that particular model? Or chance of inflicting a wound?

[Valerian]

Luis, can you explain what your spreadsheet actually tells us?  For example, what does it mean in the first row for Grey Knight with Nemesis Force Sword against a Space Marine?  It has as results 33.33% model killed, and 0.0175 wounds per point, but what does that mean, and how did you arrive at the numbers?  Does it mean that It takes three Grey Knights attacking at the same time, on average, to kill a single enemy Space Marine?  

 

I just need a better breakdown of how to "read" the information.

 

Thanks,

 

V

[LuisMars]

I'm working on a more easy to read version (I was back from vacation a few days ago).

"% model killed" is the average percentage of a model being killed using all the attacks from a model. If it says 33.33% you'll need 3 of said model to kill the defender. If it's over 100% it means overkill on average. In math: average wounds caused / total wounds.

 

"points per wound" is just the average wounds caused by all the attacks divided by the cost of the attacker model.

[swordofmandulis]

Awesome thanks for this.

Edited August 21, 2017 by swordofmandulis

[Vash5800]

How come this is outdated now?

[LuisMars]

Updated.

 

I hope you like it.

[LuisMars]

Another update, read the first post for more info.

[Ticaliation]

Thx LuisMars, but I dont know if that is only me.. but I have somehow having dificulties understanding what does the tables mean, also not sure how to navigate through them - e.g. how to find combination of unit/gear etc that I need? Thx for help